Lower the temp for next summer.

[Omni]

With the 'Party Barge' officially in dry dock for the winter (it's snowing right now), I am working on correcting/eliminating some gremlins that popped up last summer.
Specifically, If it was a hot day (like at Carlisle last year), the coolant temp at idle would hover between 225 and 230. The temp light would not come on (yes, it works) but the overflow bottle would fill just about to the top. A 16" pressure/relief cap is used and the radiator is filled to the top
The car is a '65 Newport 383 2V. Motor was freshened (rings/bearings) block and heads both cleaned. Radiator is the #2524984 three row which was re-cored two years ago. A factory shroud is used. Coolant is a 50/50 mix of traditional green. It is equipped with add/on air which is shut off in traffic. Fan is the stock seven blade w/o a clutch. The stat is a 180 high flow design.
Driving down the road the temp settles back to 180/190. But 1 traffic light is all it takes for the temp to rise,
Is there a problem with what I am using? I would like to keep it as stock appearing as possible , but I also want to enjoy some road trips.
As always, thanks to all who respond.
Omni

 

[CBODY67]

In one respect, if the HOT light does not come on, no issues. But I also understand the issue of temps getting above 210 degrees F.

Fan clutch or solid drive (considering it came without factory a/c)? 22" or 26" radiator? "Yoke seal" on the bottom of the hood?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[saforwardlook]

Since your car has add-on a/c I would estimate you have a 22" wide radiator, which is likely cause of the high temperatures in traffic during warm months. Chrysler even put that miserable radiator in cars with 440s and no a/c and it isn't even adequate for keeping the hot light off in traffic in California in just warm months and is completely useless in summer months when temperatures hit about 90F and above outside. In traffic, it is width that determines adequate cooling and how many rows of tubes is secondary in importance.

It looks like you live in Northern Ohio, so even in your more mild summer climate compared to California I would get a 26" wide radiator and here in California I also get a high efficiency core to stay below 215F when it gets above 90F outside and those are pretty expensive. For summer out here, it gets routinely above 110F.

 

[413]

Why is the radiator filled to the top? That is too full, there should be air inside. The liquid should cover all the cores when cold, but not by much.

a lean fuel mixture will make it run hot.

Since the radiator is new. What is the statue of the engine? Do you know if the block is clean or full of foreign material inside? Have you had the freeze plugs out?

 

[Big_John]

FYI... For everyone... The '65 had two radiators. One is a two core and is 22" wide and the other is a 3 core and is also 22" wide. @Omni has the 3 core.

No 26" radiator offered that year. The 3 core radiator is part of the "optional extra cooling package". I have the 2 core in my 300L and it cools just fine.

The differences shown here: lcool

 

[bronze turbine]

If the temp drops when you are moving and rises when you are stopped it seems it's an airflow problem. In my experience this is a symptom of a bad fan clutch. Or, maybe you're idle speed is set too low? Or maybe you have the incorrect fan? In my experience, if the radiator is blocked it will get hotter the faster you go.

 

[Sixpactogo]

I believe Chrysler realized the 22" radiator was not enough radiator in 65. In 66, all the AC cars got the 26" radiator. I would try to upgrade to the thermo clutch fan to see if that helps. If not, maybe you could find a 66 AC car and swap in the wider core support and radiator.

 

[Omni]

Why is the radiator filled to the top? That is too full, there should be air inside. The liquid should cover all the cores when cold, but not by much.

Radiator is filled to the top as that is how 'newer' cars are equipped. That is the reason for the overflow and the pressure relief/cap. '65's did not come equipped with overflow bottles. That is the reason for the air chamber in the radiator. If overfilled, the radiator would 'burp' out what it didn't need on the ground. Pressure/relief cap allows for any excess fluid to exit the radiator when hot and return to the radiator when cool. If the radiator is not full then there is no need for the overflow container.
Omni

 

[Omni]

a lean fuel mixture will make it run hot.

I failed to address this in the initial write-up.
Spark plugs are light tan in color.

What is the statue of the engine? Do you know if the block is clean or full of foreign material inside? Have you had the freeze plugs out?

From the original post:
Motor was freshened (rings/bearings) block and heads both cleaned.

 

[Omni]

Good Evening
C Body 67 and Bronze Turbine have both mentioned fan clutches.
As the 'Barge' never had one (originally non A/C) I did some quick research and have a question. Parts book shows one fan clutch (2536677). I looks on-line at the Hayden catalog and they show 4. The main difference is the overall height (2.71 to 3.59) Measuring from the pulley face to the back of the radiator I have approx 4".
How close (or far) should the fan clutch sit?
I guess I have two questions: as the clutch fan turns slower than the shaft speed; how does that increase cooling? What am I missing? (Oops three questions).

Omni

 

[413]

Radiator is filled to the top as that is how 'newer' cars are equipped. That is the reason for the overflow and the pressure relief/cap. '65's did not come equipped with overflow bottles. That is the reason for the air chamber in the radiator. If overfilled, the radiator would 'burp' out what it didn't need on the ground. Pressure/relief cap allows for any excess fluid to exit the radiator when hot and return to the radiator when cool. If the radiator is not full then there is no need for the overflow container.
Omni

I’m fully aware of this. BUT, he doesn’t like the coolant going in the bottle.

Also something you failed to mention. The air space is good for the radiator. You see liquid does not compress, air does. So when it gets hot this is hard on the radiator to have no airspace inside. More expansion and contraction of the brass. Not a concern as he has a new radiator, it will make old radiators fail sooner.

 

[3175375]

I’m fully aware of this. BUT, he doesn’t like the coolant going in the bottle.

Also something you failed to mention. The air space is good for the radiator. You see liquid does not compress, air does. So when it gets hot this is hard on the radiator to have no airspace inside. More expansion and contraction of the brass. Not a concern as he has a new radiator, it will make old radiators fail sooner.

As @413 has indicated, the air space in the radiator detracts minimally from the cooling capacity and provides a benefit of reducing the stress on the solder joints of the radiator.

 

[CBODY67]

Of all of the coolant recovery systems which have been on cars since the earlier 1970s, I have not observed them to cause earlier radiator failure. Even on the ones I personally have. A radiator will get gunked up (even with normal coolant changes) before they will start to seep from the soldered joints, by observation. At least the OEM radiators or radiators soldered with OEM-level solder.

16psi is 16psi, whether it is gas or liquid.

As to the fan itself, is there a different 7-blade fan for a/c or non-a/c vehicles, listed in the Chrysler parts book? My impression was that non-a/c cars had a 4-blade fan, so I guess I am mistaken on that? You will probably need an a/c fan due to the number and bolt diameter differences.

As to the shaft length of the clutch, might need to go into RockAuto and look around. I believe they also have Hayden clutches, too. The advantage of the thermostatic fan clutch is that it will freewheel at highway speeds as the air flow coming through the radiator will turn the fan, yet kick-in to cool the motor as needed, at any road speed or sitting still. The Hayden HD fans turn faster (more lock-up rpms) than the normal-rated clutches.

If the only radiator width on the '65 C-bodies is 22", yet the '66s can have a 26" radiator with factory a/c, I guess 1965 was more of a transitionary model year than I suspected.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[1966newport]

THATS WAY THE CAP is vented a 16 psi

 

[Mbaird]

What’s your timing curve look like ? Might want to use more initial and shorten the mechanical advance .
That would explain why it gets hot in traffic but cool cruising .

 

[Just Carbs]

Is that stock 7 blade fan roaring at 30 mph in first gear?
If not, then the faster pully fan clutch combo would improve low speed cooling, I think.
Reason being that the centrifugal fan clutch/pully combo lets the motor spin the fan faster for more air at idle, then let go so it don't roar at rpm, I think.
And if you're towing, the thermal clutch would be the necessary one for going up long hills in second gear at 50 mph. And make noise aplenty while doing it.

 

[Omni]

Good Morning All
Have done some more research on the radiator/fan clutch issue.
It would make sense that overheating in slow/stopped traffic MAY be caused by a lack of adequate air flow. All seals are are in place so that leaves the fan. As stated, water pump was replaced (440 source).
The car did not originally come equipped with a fan clutch so my research as research shows that the Hayden 2747 is listed as a replacement. That now leads to a replacement fan as solid fan drive is different. I have a couple of clutch fans in the 'stash' A Mopar 2863215 and a GM from a '66 GTO. Both fans are the same diameter (either 17.5 or 18, hard to measure), number of blades (7) and mounting dimensions. The only visible difference is the blade pitch (photos below). Both will mount up with about .75 inch clearance from the radiator. Apparently Mopar Performance recommends .5 inch but it should still work,
The GM fan appears to be more aggressive that the Mopar. Other than possible noise, (and the fact that it is GM) would there be other down down sides?

Thanks to all who respond.
Omni

Mopar Fan

GM Fan

 

[Mbaird]

I would still take a look at your tune . I had no overheating issues with my 75 Imperial except for once when I forgot to reconnect up the pcv after working on the carb and it was running lean . If your initial timing is to late the combustion process will still be happening while exhaust valve is open thus super heating the coolant passages .
I also have a 68 Barracuda running a .550 lift 222/229 duration cam and a 69 Dart with a 408 stroker and a solid roller .648 lift 246/250 duration on a 108 . No overheating issues even at 100+ temps . Both cars have factory style 7 blade clutch fans . Both also run cheap Champion aluminum radiators but I don’t think they cool much better than factory brass units .

 

[CBODY67]

With the fan shroud, the issue is placement of the fan within the shroud and how much "sticks out" on the engine side of things (like about 1/2 of the fan itself?). Nearness to the radiator is also important in order to get a more uniform pull on the air, through the complete radiator rather than just in front of the fan (which is what the shroud would assist with).

For potential "tissue rejection" issues, start with the Chrysler fan and see how it goes. Progress from there.

CBODY67

 

[Big_John]

I found your problem. There's a big cardboard box in front of the grille.