Major cam issue

[John Kirby]

I'm new to this forum so I will give a little background.
I rebuilt the 440 in my 66 nyer 2dr HT back around 2000. Put in 10.5:1 keith black pistons, balanced and blueprinted the engine while it was in the machine shop. Figured I'm doing it once, better do it right. Installed a crower beast cam at the time too. Ran it for a few hours to break it in. Due to a job change and other life issues it sat for many years. Finally started working on it again a few years ago. got the body work and painting done and now registered for the road.

A few weeks ago I was performing some upgrades in the engine compartment area, installed an aluminum water pump housing, some CVF racing billet brackets so I could upgrade the A/C to a sanden compressor. After all of this was done I ran the engine and everything seemed fine. Sh ut it off and a few days later started it again and a loud squealing noise started coming from the engine. I initially thought it was the water pump but removal of the belt did nothing to stop the noise. After about 10-15 minutes it quieted down but occasionally it would briefly reappear. I then changed out the oil pan for a chrome one from Summit and noticed some fine metal particles at the bottom of the pan. This seems very bad, so I pulled the top of the motor off and was checking the cam and it looks like somehow the cam has shifted backward towards the rear of the engine. The photo I hope makes it online here shows what it looks like from the passenger side of the car. You can clearly see the lifters are not centered on the lobes. It looks like the cam has shifted back towards the rear of the engine.

Anyone have any idea what keeps the cam centered in the engine? I looked in the parts manual but didn't see anything obvious that serves this function. I'm stumped at this point.

 

[John Kirby]

One thing I should also mention is I installed an electric fuel pump and removed the mechanical pump and it's pushrod several months ago.

 

[traintech55]

This is not a good sign. The cam is held in place by the retainer plate on the front of the engine and the cam gear keeps it from walking backwards. You will have to take apart the front of the engine and I bet the bolt that retains the gear to the cam is loose or missing. The fact you have metal shavings in the oil is a good indicator.

 

[68Nwprt]

This is not a good sign. The cam is held in place by the retainer plate on the front of the engine and the cam gear keeps it from walking backwards. You will have to take apart the front of the engine and I bet the bolt that retains the gear to the cam is loose or missing. The fact you have metal shavings in the oil is a good indicator.

I was under the impression that you would need to use lock tight on the timing gear bolt. Heard of instances where it would come loose.

 

[65Fury440]

Now would be a great time to not start it anymore, until you get the timing cover off. You're into it this far, shouldn't be hard.

 

[Wollfen]

I agree with the direction everyone is pointing here, you need to pull the timing cover off and check the main sprocket on the camshaft. It is most likely the bolt is loose on the camshaft.

 

[Big_John]

The only thing that keeps the cam from going back into the engine is the sprocket against the front of the block.

I think the cam bolt has loosened (assuming you used a single bolt cam) and now the bolt is pushing against the timing cover and/or the cam is all the way back against the soft plug in the rear of the block.

Either way, the timing cover has to come off and this has to be checked. I wouldn't run this engine at all.

 

[John Kirby]

Took me a couple days to get the front of the engine off. The Farmington Mopar show was this weekend and it's not something to miss. saw a lot of awesome mopars at the fairgorunds. When I get the time I'll post a photo of a 32 plymouth with a 6.4liter crate hemi stuffed in the engine bay.

Any way the saga continues. I loosened the rocker shafts to remove the lifter pressure on the cam. I was than able to slide it back and forth with a screwdriver. Once the timing cover was off I used the arm of hercules to try to tighten the bolt. It didnt budge. So I used the hercules arm again and removed the bolt. Here is what I saw.

It looks like the cam gear is installed properly.

So I took it off and looked at the back side as well as the block.

Don't see any issues. However I did find this:

This is the oil slinger and it has been eaten up rather badly by the timing chain. This is definitely where all the racket was coming from. I'll have to see if I can find another one.

So I wonder if the cam position is a real problem at all. I was able to move it approx 1/4 inch back and forth with a screwdriver prying it.

 

[Big_John]

I'll bet that slinger was bent just enough to hit the rivets on the chain.

Some of the chains will be a little thicker and will hit the slinger and a lot of folks just toss them over their shoulder. I've always used them with no problem, but others have said that even factory engines with roller chains may or may not have them.

 

[traintech55]

I'll bet that slinger was bent just enough to hit the rivets on the chain.

Some of the chains will be a little thicker and will hit the slinger and a lot of folks just toss them over their shoulder. I've always used them with no problem, but others have said that even factory engines with roller chains may or may not have them.

Glad you found the problem, now the important thing is after you repair the timing chain, replace the oil and filter. Run the engine at idle for a short time and replace the oil and filter again. This should get all the metal particles out of the oiling system. it may be expensive, but a lot cheaper than ruining the bearings in that rebuild. Since you have the intake off anyway look at the bottoms of them, If they are not dished in then put it back together, if they are worn you will need to replace the cam and lifters again.

 

[Ripinator]

Glad you found the problem, now the important thing is after you repair the timing chain, replace the oil and filter. Run the engine at idle for a short time and replace the oil and filter again. This should get all the metal particles out of the oiling system. it may be expensive, but a lot cheaper than ruining the bearings in that rebuild. Since you have the intake off anyway look at the bottoms of them, If they are not dished in then put it back together, if they are worn you will need to replace the cam and lifters again.

Aaarrgghh !

 

[heyoldguy]

You may find that the seal in the timing cover is pushing against the oil slinger and causing it to rub on the timing chain. This will also push the crankshaft against the #3 main bearing and cause thrust wear on the #3 main. Check to see that you do not have excessive crank thrust. If the seal is rubbing against the slinger and thrust is still okay just toss the slinger in the trash.