New to me 78 NYB on its way but please Don't tell my wife

73 T&C

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Go for it.

I have been mulling a Holley Sniper system for my 78 NYB. Snipers are pretty easy to setup and maintain these days. Might increase my 5 mpg!
OMG! 5MPG!!! Don’t you not have any option but WOT???? I know it must be tempting; what with constantly blowing the doors of Teslas, but OMG 5 MPG!!!!

Seriously, how many horses are you putting out?!?!?!? Energy is energy; so to burn at that rate you must be making plenty!

Congratulations!
 

1978 NYB

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OMG! 5MPG!!! Don’t you not have any option but WOT???? I know it must be tempting; what with constantly blowing the doors of Teslas, but OMG 5 MPG!!!!

Seriously, how many horses are you putting out?!?!?!? Energy is energy; so to burn at that rate you must be making plenty!



Congratulations!

The dyno was 500 hp. I don't know what the cars problem is....she just won't go slow. Runs pretty good on 93 octane.

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73 T&C

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Instructions out and valves are free and moving. Tomorrow we put a dial indicator on the rockers and then do a leak down test..... on all of them.

Number 6 is still dead dead dead

I have to correct my pervious diagnosis a bit.

Seams I forgot there was a second check valve on the gauge adaptor I was using. I have two and forgot about it. So what we were seeing was the accumulated maximum pressure and not the ability of the number six to hold air. I should have known after the first 20 minutes. Sorry! My bad!!!

Tomorrow’s leak test will definitely tell us where the problem is. Head valve/guide/seal or piston/ring.... hoping it’s the head.

Regardless, we’ll know more tomorrow.

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Oh.... and here are the instructions we found in the valve cover.

They were folded up at the top of the cover right over #6. So. There also goes my theory about the paper trough limiting lubrication. Initial turning of the engine showed plenty of oil flowing over the top of the rocker on the the seal and guide. No doubt the paper has something to do with #6 being dead but haven’t yet put my finger on it.

Any other testing recommendations are welcome.
 
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73 T&C

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New puzzle pieces.

Pulled the valve cover and turned engine cold today. All valves appeared to be moving equally. Engine started smooth but quickly started degrading as soon as engine reached 150 temp and the enrichment circuit came off. Number 6 was alive cold. And was then dead when engine was up to temp. It’s also smoking slightly when fully warmed up.

ran compression again cold.... still good at 150psi. No way to run compression hot without asbestos gloves. Leak down tomorrow just for good measure with piston up and down. Just another check.

The push rods were snug but not tight. I rotated them but couldn’t see any bent ones.

Literally pulled out the plug, grounded it and started the car to make sure wire was good.

wire was good.

Tomorrow we measure valve movement cold and hot.

stand by.

I don’t mind sharing that I’m a bit sad and disappointed.... And more than just a little curious as to the exact cause of the problem. Not because of the problem. We all
can make mistakes and this too will be corrected to my satisfaction. I’m sure. I’m just disappointed I can’t drive my shiny new car. That just sucks.

Any ideas out there as to what it is that may be causing the trouble????
 
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73 T&C

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How is the crankcase pressure when it is running? Can the PCV generate a vacuum in it at idle?

I’ll check it next time and let you know. What I can tell you is that the issue, whatever it is, is getting worse. And....so far no smoke out of the breather at idle.
 

78Brougham

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For shits and giggles, I'd throw a new plug in it, unless you've already tried that. Plug could be grounding out internally when it gets hot.
Also take a sniff of the coolant with a combustion leak tester. Blue Point GDCT16 or UView available on Amazon.
 

73 T&C

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For shits and giggles, I'd throw a new plug in it, unless you've already tried that. Plug could be grounding out internally when it gets hot.
Also take a sniff of the coolant with a combustion leak tester. Blue Point GDCT16 or UView available on Amazon.

I swapped the plugs when I pulled them. No change.

Possible head gasket leak? Blown gaskets with less than 200 miles. Seems possible but not likely. Then again, running out of the obvious.
 

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Well your only getting oil deposits in cylinder 6... It would seem odd that the head gasket would shift when it is warm then go back to normal when cold. But anything is possible at this point.

What about the ring gaps? Could they be lined up in such fashion that it is allowing access oil into the combustion chamber? Ring gap openings are suppose to be 90-180 degree apart. Well at least thats what a 70 FSM says for the 440.
 

70bigblockdodge

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I would ditch the ELB ignition control. You have deviated too far from stock for it to affectively produce the advance curve (it never had a good one to begin with, emissions was the bigger picture at the time) the increased cylinder pressure and cam timing require. I would turn to Halifax shops if you do not want to trial and error it.
The TQ is going to be extremely lean at cruise if stock jetting is still in there, also idle but that can be adjusted. You are going to need to switch the metering rods out to get rid of that lean cruise.
You could also just do it the cheap *** 70BBD way and file a flat spot in the rod on the middle bump and the fat section near top. That will allow more fuel (smaller rod area with flat spot) at cruise and light load.
Just some food for thought.
I'm with Jeff on aftermarket self learners. The tech is okay, but when will it disappear and everything is moved to port injection? Could be 10 years, but as the limits of these systems are already becoming apparent to their days are numbered. Really they are not going to cure a rich condition from a large overlap cam, which is not your case but it is how they are being marketed. Let's just say I am not a fan.
Edit: I think the sniper would work well on your car, as the engine is better, but not radical. Idles smooth, good vacuum.
 
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Rick T

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To the relief of at least one of you out there.....

I’m thinking that I may just retire the Electronic Lean Burn system.

Yep... take it all off carefully, put it and all my spares in a box and send it to the back of the back of the garage. Oh I’ll keep it and it goes with the car but that 43 year ignition control system is just not up to giving me the power possible from the rebuilt to ‘69 spec 440. And there is no easy way to tune it so that it can.... period.

I do get glimpses and it’s kind of cool. Like when I slowed down to take a fast turn and hit the gas and she burned a little rubber (on one side). But then the computer retards the advance and won’t bring it back up fast enough (by design) to put out the power this thing is capable of. It’s really not the system; it’s the built in hard wired programming that it came with. The technology was pretty bleeding edge and precursor to actual fuel and ignition control that would come soon enough. In order to eliminate pinging at highway i have to have the timing set just right. Everything needs to be just so.... and I really do love the kickdown and throaty sound of that Thermoquad when I nail it... it’s just that I never know exactly what I’m going to get. It does take very little pedal to get and hold speed now. If I drive like an older sane person then I would never be able to tell. But that’s not me.

Options I’m Currently exploring:

Option 1) Remove the ELB ignition sustm and replace it with the older electronic ignition system and dizzy that comes in a kit for about $200.

Advantages: easy and fairly cheap to do. Stripping the sensors and ELB add-ons to the Thermoquad will not affect its performance (or glorious sound). Could probably do it in a day or two. I know the system backwards forward and upside down, have the actual diagnostic equipment for service (just because I’m really insane). It is in line with the rest of the Mopar fleet (or flotilla according to my bride). I could adapt the ignition module into the current computer control box to keep at least the aesthetic.

Disadvantages: it’s not very fuel efficient. It’s a step back. It doesn’t take any advantage of the good things the ELB could do.

Option 2) Pull the ELB and Thermoquad (much to Stan’s final relief) and install a Holley Sniper EFI system.

View attachment 455141


Advantages: beyond the obvious... extremely high cool factor, drivability, performance, reliability, comfort, predictability. Takes advantage of the current ELB distributor.... which satisfies the nostalgic in me. (really uses what Chrysler was trying to do to its full advantage with both fuel and timing control) It’s evolutionary not radically different. I can do it fairly easily at the shop over a few days. I’ve rebuilt fuel
Injection systems in my Cadillacs so it doesn’t intimidate me at all. It come with pre set profiles you can actually tune.... meaning hours of fun and digital readout to play with. It’s a throttle body system so it will make some cool sounds, just a little different. And..... will look like a Thermoquad which satisfies the aesthetic requirements I live by. May be a sign if things to come for the fleet as parts get more rare and harder to find.

Disadvantages: mo money (about $1500 all in I figure), mo time to do which will require planning and logistics (and you all know how much I hate to do that) will lock me into the beast a while longer than I had planned.

thoughts, ideas.... gentlemen?

all are welcome on this discussion.

Of course either will require it’s own thread once I make a decision.
I currently have the holly sniper EFI full system in my 440 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham I love it. It took 2 separate runs on the Dino. The first run got about 276 hp 365 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. The engine was pulled and built by the previous owner board out mild crawler cam TRW pistons Edelbrock intake hooker headers and a junk carb that wasn’t working correctly. It started running rough only to find out several of the plugs are getting fouled out due to some oil getting past the rings. The engine said before I got it assuming the rings scored the Pistons and that’s why the Oil is getting bad but anyways. Change the plugs put it back on the Dino re-tuned everything went through all the programs and settings much more thoroughly this time I ended up getting 295 hp and about 380 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. Car is like night and day now you stand on it and it pushes you back in a seat for 5000 pound car that’s pretty damn good.
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commando1

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Face it. You're gonna have to do a cold AND HOT compression check. Your symptoms are weird and really don't add up. I feel your pain already.
 

73 T&C

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I currently have the holly sniper EFI full system in my 440 Chrysler New Yorker Brougham I love it. It took 2 separate runs on the Dino. The first run got about 276 hp 365 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. The engine was pulled and built by the previous owner board out mild crawler cam TRW pistons Edelbrock intake hooker headers and a junk carb that wasn’t working correctly. It started running rough only to find out several of the plugs are getting fouled out due to some oil getting past the rings. The engine said before I got it assuming the rings scored the Pistons and that’s why the Oil is getting bad but anyways. Change the plugs put it back on the Dino re-tuned everything went through all the programs and settings much more thoroughly this time I ended up getting 295 hp and about 380 foot pounds of torque at the rear wheels. Car is like night and day now you stand on it and it pushes you back in a seat for 5000 pound car that’s pretty damn good. View attachment 456221View attachment 456223

nice install!
 

70bigblockdodge

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Any ideas out there as to what it is that may be causing the trouble
Intake gasket drawing air on engine side/lifter valley. Causing oil fouling, and cylinder running lean. Check torque on intake bolts, you did use thread sealant on intake bolts right?
 

78Brougham

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@Rick Teribury .... old inside Buffalonian joke, but I couldn't resist.....

"She said.... kiss me where it stinks.... so I took her to Lackawanna!":rofl:

Ahhh, the good old Bethlehem Steel days... I grew up in "Kaisertown" :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Sorry for the "Hijack"
 
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