Prius issue

[tbm3fan]

So I had someone new in my office this past Thursday who happens to be a lawyer. As we spent time talking about a variety of subjects, including the time he worked with Nader, he mentions a current recall issue.

Now I am not a fan of new cars at all because they rely of electronics too much for my taste. I'm of the opinion that they don't last, are extremely expensive to replace when they fail, and will end the life of the car before the car itself has reached the end physically.

So the Prius has an ICU which has a problem with the transistors overheating. Now the ICU is used in other Toyota produced cars such as those from Lexus. With the Lexus Toyota replaced the ICU completely given it wasn't big numbers. However, the Prius numbers are over a million cars.

What Toyota did here was ask for your car to come in so they could reprogram the software of the ICU. What they left unsaid was that they were lowering the performance of the ICU in order to lower temperatures. Consequently you would see lower mpg and actually higher emissions from the car. They didn't want to replace the ICU unless it was one of the six cars that first appeared on the scene with issues. They want the owner to pay for replacement to the tune of thousands. Should be obvious why owners would be using a law firm to deal with Toyota.

 

[Davea Lux]

So I had someone new in my office this past Thursday who happens to be a lawyer. As we spent time talking about a variety of subjects, including the time he worked with Nader, he mentions a current recall issue.

Now I am not a fan of new cars at all because they rely of electronics too much for my taste. I'm of the opinion that they don't last, are extremely expensive to replace when they fail, and will end the life of the car before the car itself has reached the end physically.

So the Prius has an ICU which has a problem with the transistors overheating. Now the ICU is used in other Toyota produced cars such as those from Lexus. With the Lexus Toyota replaced the ICU completely given it wasn't big numbers. However, the Prius numbers are over a million cars.

What Toyota did here was ask for your car to come in so they could reprogram the software of the ICU. What they left unsaid was that they were lowering the performance of the ICU in order to lower temperatures. Consequently you would see lower mpg and actually higher emissions from the car. They didn't want to replace the ICU unless it was one of the six cars that first appeared on the scene with issues. They want the owner to pay for replacement to the tune of thousands. Should be obvious why owners would be using a law firm to deal with Toyota.

The Bipolar transistors used in the Prius are the same ones used in the HAL 9000 computer. (for those of you too young to remember the Hal computer went insane of 2001 "A Space Odessy")

Dave

 

[polara66hardtop]

I don't like those cars. look what happens to them when they get hit hard. Plenty Info on the net.

 

[Davea Lux]

So I had someone new in my office this past Thursday who happens to be a lawyer. As we spent time talking about a variety of subjects, including the time he worked with Nader, he mentions a current recall issue.

Now I am not a fan of new cars at all because they rely of electronics too much for my taste. I'm of the opinion that they don't last, are extremely expensive to replace when they fail, and will end the life of the car before the car itself has reached the end physically.

So the Prius has an ICU which has a problem with the transistors overheating. Now the ICU is used in other Toyota produced cars such as those from Lexus. With the Lexus Toyota replaced the ICU completely given it wasn't big numbers. However, the Prius numbers are over a million cars.

What Toyota did here was ask for your car to come in so they could reprogram the software of the ICU. What they left unsaid was that they were lowering the performance of the ICU in order to lower temperatures. Consequently you would see lower mpg and actually higher emissions from the car. They didn't want to replace the ICU unless it was one of the six cars that first appeared on the scene with issues. They want the owner to pay for replacement to the tune of thousands. Should be obvious why owners would be using a law firm to deal with Toyota.

The Prius is one of those cars that Yuppies bought to prove that they were doing something to "save the planet". I also noted that most Obama campaign stickers were also on a Prius. Maybe they should have run Prius on Hot Air rather than an Inverter Convertor Unit (ICU).

Dave

 

[Davea Lux]

I don't like those cars. look what happens to them when they get hit hard. Plenty Info on the net.

My nephew is a firefighter/EMT, they hate those cars; high voltage, major fire and electrocution hazard.

Dave

 

[polara66hardtop]

those roof mounted solart panels are an equal extreme hazard to Fireman. the heat they generate causes real problems when responding to a building fire. I read where the Prius could explode when hit in just the right spot.

 

[CBODY67]

IF the ICU reprogram results in higher emissions, which then are "out of range" for the appropriate regulations and/or it affects the EPA fuel economy ratings, I see $$$$$$$ signs floating in the air. Another "VW Diesel" situation?

One of our dealer group franchises is a Toyota franchise. Haven't seen anything like a "flood of Prius" vehicles in the service area. There is one younger guy who drives a Prius and does mobile battery replacements on those cars. He gets his batteries from them, on a wholesale/exchange basis.

There are OTHER issues with Toyotas which have sparked recalls that seem to go unreported in the news media. One had to do with dash pad replacement. Another was rear springs on the Tacoma pickups. Not to dismiss how many driveshafts from Tundras and Tacomas we've had to take to a driveshaft shop for balance issues or u-joint replacements. There was one tech that went to another dealership as if he took ONE training class, it would qualify him to do the dash pad recalls, which had some serious "pay" issues, so he quit and went somewhere else, from what I'm told. Oh, not to forget the recall about the rear bumpers of the Tundras. The only strength in the bumper was at the center drawbar area. The "supports" for the outer sections were hard plastic castings. Hit them and it's time for a new quarter panel! So that recall meant new rear bumpers.

If the electronic control works on the program within it, no need to replace it per se, just reflash it. The replaced module should have the same program in it already, I suspect.

 

[polara66hardtop]

I will stick with my Ram.

 

[saforwardlook]

In my last job of some 31 years, I had to deal with all the major automobile manufacturers selling cars in the U.S. Trust me, Toyota would do all they could to avoid any recall and wouldn't hesitate to take you to court to stop one. They would hire a bevy of lawyers to fight you as hard as they could to stop one. The worst manufacturer out there in this respect. I will never buy one of there cars, ever.

 

[78Brougham]

Remember the great frame issue they had with their pickups? I can't remember how many they had to buy back but it was an enormous amount.

 

[Davea Lux]

those roof mounted solart panels are an equal extreme hazard to Fireman. the heat they generate causes real problems when responding to a building fire. I read where the Prius could explode when hit in just the right spot.

That is one of the issues after a hard crash, if the car did not "blow" from the crash, it can still do so if the rescue personal use the "Jaws of Life". They had to take special classes on how and where to cut the battery leads to avoid electrocution/explosion hazards. cutting those cables sometimes results in potentially fatal delays for the critically injured trapped inside. They are not allowed to start a rescue until the power from the batteries is safely cut.

Dave

 

[Turboomni]

I wish us all luck in 10 to 20 years,,,,

 

[cantflip]

I feel for first responders, like fire fighters, who have to deal with these automotive systems in truly unpredictable scenarios. It's bad enough that untrained techs at your local tire shop will have to attempt repairs they have little information and no equipment to help them do safely. Accidents make the cars very unpredictable, you never really know what has been compromised and what will happen next.

My nephew is a firefighter/EMT, they hate those cars; high voltage, major fire and electrocution hazard.

Dave

Many years ago, I talked with some fire fighter friends about how they dealt with air bags and cutting a person out of a car... the addition of high voltage and lithium batteries has to make their job hell.

There is a very good likelihood my future employment will require me to get more involved in dealing with hybrid or electric cars on the repair/service level. I'm willing to deal with them in a controlled environment with proper equipment, information and training. I cannot imagine what it would be like to have to deal with them without those factors in my favor.

 

[1978 NYB]

Even more....i don't like the people that drive them. They will do whatever to get in front of you in the left lane and drive 10-15 mph UNDER the speed limit and causing chaos.

 

[DocMcNeedy]

I respect the environment daily in many ways...recycle, pick up dog doo, etc... But, for safety reasons and dog transport my daily drivers are big...always Suburbans in my case. Due for another one soon. And I love burning fuel in the old barges and pulling up next to the small hybrids at the pump or on the road. I'll fight to my death if the state ever tries to regulate hot rods, street rods, classics, etc...on our roadways.

 

[rapidtrans]

None of this Prius stuff surprises me.
Working with Japanese and German engineers over the years has been infuriating. Their pride and arrogance often gets in the way of good design or business sense. How dare an inferior American ever point out a flaw in their design. You know someone back home at Takata is gonna fall on his sword!

 

[CBODY67]

First Responders have been dealing with safety equipment in cars since the days of when some cars had airbags and others didn't. They had to look at the VIN plate on the front of the instrument panel and see if it had an airbag symbol on it BEFORE they could do anything. That usually meant cutting the battery cable. After all cars got them, I believe they might look for the year digit in the VIN?

When we got the Volt product, I looked at the wiring harness illustration and was shocked at all of the wiring in that car. The battery is centrally-located in the structure and requires an electric platform lift to remove/install the battery to the bottom of the car. Just as carrying a child seat in the back seat, the Volt's battery seems to be well-located with plenty of crush zones around it. The Prius battery, by observation, is significantly smaller AND also has an auxiliary battery that's more like the size of a Group 27 battery, which MSRPs at about $260.00+.

As with some of the "low price mileage-based" insurance companies (where permitted), there is a place for electric vehicles and hybrid vehicles. Toyota got big press when they went for "personal transportation", but the highest impact was when GM initially chose to go with transit busses instead. Regenerative braking and all. One small fleet of those hybrid busses, it was reported, resulted in a larger comparative emissions reduction than ALL of the Toyota electric/hybrid vehicles produced to that point. GM also later added some hybrid models to their SUV vehicles, too. The electric propulsion came from an additional casting in the front of the automatic transmission. Seems like some of those initial hybrid transit busses went to the National Park Service for park tours?

On regenerative braking, I saw a GM TSB about how this worked. It seems that it relied upon "length of braking" rather than "intensity of braking" for the most charging situation. In other words, people who drove to the last 75' before a stop sign and then intensely braked to a stop got less "charging" than a driver who started using the brakes more gently at the 100' point. Had to learn how to drive them, for best results. Who would've suspected that?

On the "mild hybrid" cars, they have their own cooling system for the batteries and the batteries need to be maintained within a particular temperature range for best results, hot or cold. That's how the "mild hybrid" Malibus were.

The first set of "hybrid" pickups that GM did had several batteries mounted under the rear seat. Only available on 4-door models. They had "start/stop" and didn't sell well in TX. Reason? When the engine stopped, the a/c compressor stopped. Not good in the middle of July in Downtown Dallas or Houston traffic! We sold one of them that was a display vehicle for the State Fair of TX . . . the ONLY one we sold.

Hybrids and electrics have their place. Pretty much in the metro areas, to me, and not on the high-speed Interstates where power reserves are important. It might well be that the Teslas are where we might well end up, eventually. Prius isn't in that league.

CBODY67

 

[saforwardlook]

None of this Prius stuff surprises me.
Working with Japanese and German engineers over the years has been infuriating. Their pride and arrogance often gets in the way of good design or business sense. How dare an inferior American ever point out a flaw in their design. You know someone back home at Takata is gonna fall on his sword!

Generally agree, but some were much worse than others. Or they would agree with you and then go home and do it their way and not tell you about it. Or leave it out of the discussion up front when they should have told you about it and they knew it.

 

[mrfury68]

I'll stick with my daily driver 97 Chevy Suburban. It has been paid off for years, hauls family, friends, and cargo comfortably in any weather and still looks good in its original emerald green paint.

 

[tbm3fan]

Maybe I should make it clear that this isn't a "Prius" issue with me nor who drives them issue. It is an issue of advanced technology cars with me for one. It is about engine management systems that rely on advanced electronics which are not proven to have long life spans nor be inexpensive to remove and replace. When these systems fail, such as the ICU, then you go into limp mode and crawl home. If you can't afford to replace that ICU, heard Prius estimates of $3000 each, then your car is done. If it isn't available anymore then your car is really done.

I'm still driving a 1965 F100 53 years later. How many 2017 F150s will be on the road even 25 years from now? The engine may be willing but the circuit board may have other ideas. At this time my 2004 Focus exhibits little electrical gremlins during our rainy season. With the car off the interior lights will flash off and on, the beep for key left in ignition will beep off and on, dash lights such as alternator and oil lights will glow on their own. Seems to be a common problem with no known source according to Ford and only a few have given their car to the dealer, with a blank check, to go looking for the cause. Now while my 1969 Panasonic clock radio still works, much of today's electronics don't have longevity designed into them.

The other issue was Toyota stalling on the Prius while it corrected the same problem in Lexus by replacing the ICU. As you can see the ICU is not Prius specific. Lexus replaced because of the lower numbers involved vs. the million Prius cars. Yet doesn't surprise me as I believe all manufacturers would stall on a recall for replacement for a non-life threatening issue.