Technician Shortage...

I work for a independent small shop, I get paid hourly and get my insurance. I get a monthly bonus based on the work I put out. I love doing the heavy jobs, engines, head gaskets, timing belts, but some of the smaller jobs you can do faster and make more. The worst is getting in some problem child that takes way to long to figure out and you feel guilty charging for all your time. I love the challenge of fixing what has been to multiple shops and other guy's couldn't fix but sometimes your best to just kick it to the curb.
Because I worked driveability, I had cars like this almost every week. The best Driveability guy I ever knew worked on Mopars his entire career. I worked next to him for a little while and I know his work was high quality, he was one of a very few I knew who could turn a legitimate 100+ hour week consistently. I always considered 60 hours to be my happy place, if I went more... good, but if less for too long it was time to think about why I'm here.
I worked many years hourly with a bonus based on flat rate... it can be a very fair arrangement. I think my best pay ever was an old 50/50 labor split that was offered to me early in my career to work part time in a shop that was short on techs. That only lasted about 6 months at most and only happened due to the small shop having a guy out with a hernia and the owner not being too sure what I could do. When I was asked to work full time I was paid on a more conventional system.

For those not all the way getting this... a big aspect of flat rate or bonus plans is to pay for productivity while protecting the shop somewhat. Your comebacks or mistakes can be deducted from wages. There is a small percentage of idiots who have continued to survive as an idiot by moving fast enough their comebacks don't fully catch up to them. Mistakes happen, often the shop eats the cost, but it is common for the tech to be held accountable too. A tech almost always, at minimum, repairs the problem without additional pay. An idiot can find himself working for free within a few months if his comebacks are high... the shop really can't afford the ill will this creates for their customers so he may get fired before he decides to quit. It has amazed me how much some just don't care about their workmanship and the reason I no longer feel safe in an elevator (seen 2 enter that field after being unable to live in mine).
 
From a consumer's point of view all this seems confusing as confusing can get. I've bought a lot of new cars over the years for myself and for business and have discovered the "Service Dept" is not my friend except for warranty work. Everything else I take to a small "Ma and Pa" operation. Once I've found a "good guy" my typical service instruction is" Start at the front bump and work you way to the back, anything worn or broken, fix or replace it". This has worked very well for many years, only failing when the shop changes owners or shuts down. My last guy decided to quit wrenching to become a rock star so I've shopping for a year or so. The problem, the Ma's and Pa's are dying off and the new breed are guys bumped out of the dealerships who figure to become an over night success by renting some garage space and applying the dealer's "borrowed" rate books. This is very discouraging.
In days gone by, nearly every corner had a service station who had full service at the pumps and a one or two bay service shop. Generally the owner was also the mechanic and the rest were part time mechanic wannabees. We didn't have technicians, we had mechanics. Anyhow it wasn't hard to figure out which Service Station was honest and did good work. Life was grand.
Service stations are gone.
Full service at the pump is gone.
Now you pay in advance for fuel you pump yourself. Windshield dirty, use their even dirtier wash bucket to clean it yourself.
Need air in a tire, tough.
Need fluids checked, tough.
Don't even consider using a washroom even if they have one.

My latest small shop experience with a 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee, the tech found a weeping power steering hose.
112.24 - hose
23.00 - fluid
200 - labor (4 hours @ $50)
10 - hazardous materials
$345.24 total

Expensive hose, but it's Mopar. What I don't understand is the 4 hours to install the hose. His invoice says "bleeding the power steering". I just fill the reservoir and crank the wheels lock to lock a few times. Maybe I missed something.

As per normal I've rambled off both your topic and mine, one of the perks of old age!
 
As per normal I've rambled off both your topic and mine, one of the perks of old age!

Good... that's why I like it here:thumbsup:

Believe it or not, there are many different times guides out there... any reasonable shop is using at least one of them to estimate work they haven't done before. All are somewhat based on factory warranty times-plus additional time. Most are a bit incomplete and so is the factory guide allowing for straight time on many operations.

The funny part of this is that the dealer has all the special tools and the techs there may have done the job in question many times and they might quote you less time to do the job. The mom and pop shops usually balance this out with a lower labor rate.

Chain stores in the aftermarket can be as cut throat as it gets. They put their labor between the mom and pops and the dealer and then they try to refigure the time guide as they see fit in many stores, I especially like their menu package services which are done without exception for simple problems that often don't need all that work. In my own limited experience with this I quickly discovered the shop will fault the tech for not doing a full package... customer's brake noise complaint wasn't due to my reusing their perfectly good calipers, it was the crappy parts I was forced to use by larry,moe and curly or whatever their names were... but I was only comebacked once on that policy. I didn't like it but I can adapt to it...

I would never recommend somebody put their complete faith in one shop without at least some good history there. If you are searching for a new shop get 2 or 3 written estimate next time you are looking for service, not when you are calling AAA. You can ask the shops to explain the differences in charges and you may find radically different recommendations, allow them to explain and show you. An honest shop should not feel threatened by a customer's questions.

I also am against free inspections. They may want a small fee for the inspection which they would credit to the work if performed by them... seems fair to me.
 
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Good... that's why I like it here:thumbsup:
I'm really glad you found this joint. Took the load off of my shoulders..
Smiley_wink.gif
 
Where is this at I'm going there everything around here is $100+

Hell my big truck labor rates are $65-$75

I was thinking the same thing ... car rates are around $90 here.

But hell if it takes them 4 hours to do a 1 hour job it works out to be pretty expensive no matter how you shake it if they charge you the 4 hours = $200 for an hours work.
 
[QUOTE="70bigblockdodge, post: 383570, member: 1739"

Hell my big truck labor rates are $65-$75[/QUOTE]
You pay yourself that much?
 
>> I also am against free inspections. They may want a small fee for the inspection which they would credit to the work if performed by them... seems fair to me.

An independent BMW repair shop I frequented for many years used to refer to the "Sixty-point Safety Inspection" as the "Money Hunt."
 
An independent BMW repair shop I frequented for many years used to refer to the "Sixty-point Safety Inspection" as the "Money Hunt."
I agree with this, worse yet are the states that require a safety inspection especially a state like PA pulling wheels measuring rotors and pads thickness. Anything more than lights, tires and a quick ride around the block is too much, and just another form of governmental welfare.

How do the professionals feel about a company like Pep Boys. They buy a part mark it up and sell it to you to take home and put on, or if you have them put it on they mark it up again to carry it a little further in the building, now the middle of last week while delivering coils to a coater across the street was a auto parts distribution whse Uni-something the sign man was out there changing the name to something Pep Boys, so now they are marking it up 3 times and charging you over $100/hour to put it on. I hope their techs make some good rates but I doubt it.

And here is another thought/question at a dealer doing warranty work are the parts free and clear from manufacture or can the dealer make a little on the parts? I know they are beating you down on the labor rate.
 
I agree with this, worse yet are the states that require a safety inspection especially a state like PA pulling wheels measuring rotors and pads thickness. Anything more than lights, tires and a quick ride around the block is too much, and just another form of governmental welfare.

How do the professionals feel about a company like Pep Boys. They buy a part mark it up and sell it to you to take home and put on, or if you have them put it on they mark it up again to carry it a little further in the building, now the middle of last week while delivering coils to a coater across the street was a auto parts distribution whse Uni-something the sign man was out there changing the name to something Pep Boys, so now they are marking it up 3 times and charging you over $100/hour to put it on. I hope their techs make some good rates but I doubt it.

And here is another thought/question at a dealer doing warranty work are the parts free and clear from manufacture or can the dealer make a little on the parts? I know they are beating you down on the labor rate.
Having worked in dealerships for many years, (and still have my connections at the Chrysler warehouse in Chicago). The factory states a cost and list price, the dealer pays cost, you pay list plus tax.
 
The factory states a cost and list price, the dealer pays cost, you pay AT, UNDER, OR OVER list AT THE DEALER'S DISCRETION plus tax.

Most of my local dealers charge OTC retail sales (Joe Average) list + 20% plus tax.
 
FCA pays 30 points over Dealer Cost for parts but only 60% of door rate for labour and at THEIR book times not what it really takes unless there are mitigating circumstances which require punch times.
 
We have several "Price Levels" depending on who you are. Full Retail, Jobber, Wholesale, Employee, Cost etc. Wholesale rates average around 15% markup Jobber pays 20% Average Joe pays Retail (30-40%)
 
Who determines the door rate?

Market and costs so basically whatever you can get away with. Each bay in the shop is expected to generate revenue each day. Using a flat rate system that means a minimum of 8 hours per bay each day. 10 Bays X 8 Hours = 80 hours a day with an average of 2.2 hours per work order that means we need to see 36 customers. door rate includes everything it takes to run the shop from tech pay to uniforms to shop rags etc. As costs increase so does door rate.
 
I would rather do most of my own work.....
I just start hearing noises and crap on the open road to Green Bay and bothers the crap out me wondering if someone messed up repairing something, tightening something, etc. If i did the work....I'm 100% at ease and not flipping out about somebody else doing repairs to any of my cars.

I even torque the lugnut's on the NYB to 85 ft/lbs.
 
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