440 transplant into my '65 Fury lll

Seedy Wags · Apr 20, 2017

OK Fellas. I got a deal on a Virginia car up here in NY. Nice solid example. I also have a fresh 440 in the same garage. I want to mate these two. After inspecting , It appears a cross portion of the steering linkage will be in the way of the 440 oil pan. Easiest fix here would be to find a CENTER sump pan, moving the deep part forward to take care of the clearance issues I perceive. Of course there is the motor mount issue also. Shout out to anyone having experience with this type of swap. I do not want to cut and chop. The car has the Poly Head 318 and auto trans right now. I am in the process of trying to fire up the 318 to see if there are any issues with it. Thank you in advance, Motor heads.

GJS · Apr 20, 2017

Gonna want to watch out for the idler arm as well. 65 - 71 big block cars used a center sump pan with clearance for it .. number on the pan was 187.

GJS · Apr 20, 2017

P.S. Welcome aboard!

brownbuick · Apr 20, 2017

Also be aware of the special '65-only motor mount on the left side (if I remember right). It requires a special boss cast into the front of the block, and not all big blocks have that boss. Some have it, but it's shorter and requires fabricating a spacer, and some have the boss but it's not drilled and tapped. I'm going off memory here, admittedly. Seems like some late '70s big blocks use the boss to mount an air pump. The mount is also used on the late-60s big-block A-bodies, and the parts were available from Schumaker Creative Services, last I knew. Anyway, if the block doesn't have the boss, as I recall, it's better to skip it and find the right block.

EDIT: Sorry, just noticed that you apparently already knew about that.

300rag · Apr 20, 2017

brownbuick said:
Also be aware of the special '65-only motor mount on the left side (if I remember right). It requires a special boss cast into the front of the block, and not all big blocks have that boss. Some have it, but it's shorter and requires fabricating a spacer, and some have the boss but it's not drilled and tapped. I'm going off memory here, admittedly. Seems like some late '70s big blocks use the boss to mount an air pump. The mount is also used on the late-60s big-block A-bodies, and the parts were available from Schumaker Creative Services, last I knew. Anyway, if the block doesn't have the boss, as I recall, it's better to skip it and find the right block.

Like this...

Seedy Wags · Apr 20, 2017

300rag said:
Like this...

View attachment 122264

View attachment 122262

View attachment 122263

300 rag, you have provided me with some awesome information. After reading these posts, and being a new member, my motivation to do this project is over flowing! Where did you find those motor mounts? I am so glad that I signed up on this forum. I will enclose a picture of my project as we sit in the garage at this time. She is a solid West Virginia car that I found in western New York behind a garage. $1000, and I thought I got a super deal.!

65Fury440 · Apr 20, 2017

Welcome to the site.
Here is some reading for ya.

On my 440, I made a mount and drilled holes in the oil pump boss as it did not have those holes cast in the block, and tapped for 1x5/8 bolts.
It wasn't too hard. Give these guys a call, they can set you up.

'66-73 C-Body Products
65 C-Body driver's side motor mount solution

65Fury440 · Apr 20, 2017

Also, as an FYI, I had no interference with a 971 oil pan in my car.
I currently have this oil pan, no linkage clearance issues. I wouldn't advise using it on a car if you don't want to jack up the front torsion bars.
Milodon Street and Strip Oil Pans 30930

Seedy Wags · Apr 20, 2017

GJS said:
Gonna want to watch out for the idler arm as well. 65 - 71 big block cars used a center sump pan with clearance for it .. number on the pan was 187.

Thank you much for the info. Is that a MOPAR part number? Where did you shop for yours? I have seen the Milodan pan that was posted in this thread as well. A might fancy / pricy for my needs, though very cool.

Yatzee · Apr 20, 2017

Seedy Wags said:
OK Fellas. I got a deal on a Virginia car up here in NY. Nice solid example. I also have a fresh 440 in the same garage. I want to mate these two. After inspecting , It appears a cross portion of the steering linkage will be in the way of the 440 oil pan. Easiest fix here would be to find a CENTER sump pan, moving the deep part forward to take care of the clearance issues I perceive. Of course there is the motor mount issue also. Shout out to anyone having experience with this type of swap. I do not want to cut and chop. The car has the Poly Head 318 and auto trans right now. I am in the process of trying to fire up the 318 to see if there are any issues with it. Thank you in advance, Motor heads.

I have a 65 Fury as well that was originally 318. The guy who owned it before me removed the original stand offs for the 318 and replaced them with the big block style. He did it right and did a damn fine job at that. A 383 was in it when I bought it. I put a 512 stroker in and worried about the left motor mount as I did not have the lower boss like on the 383. Seems my biggest problem wasn't with the mount mismatch because later engines were just fine with one boss to mount to mount to. My biggest problem was 623 hp pulling on the left mount and possibly breaking the block at the boss. I'm sure the weight of the engine is going to keep it seated except under high acceleration so the only real solution was a torque bar that ties the engine to the k-member. It mounts at one end to a custom bracket secured by the oil pump bolts using a clevis end. The rod is 1/2 inch and goes down to the other bracket attached to the front of the k-member. Angle is about 15 degrees off vertical and is anchored using the same setup as the tops of most shocks using rubber disks and the big washers. It's presence is not noticeable and is set up to work with the rubber biscuits at the lower end for flex and expandability matching the motor mount. You will undoubtedly discover how inadequate your drive shaft is for the 440 - she'll render herself useless in short order because it's tapered at the differential end and not meant for high power. The ratio of the diff out back may be a bit strange for a 440. Good luck, hope all goes well. Give Shumacher a call for conversion mounts which will give you the least amount of trouble without cutting and welding.

Snotty · Apr 20, 2017

No one has said it - won't he need a big block 727 as well? Or is the poly bolt pattern the same as a B/RB?

GJS · Apr 20, 2017

Snotty said:
No one has said it - won't he need a big block 727 as well? Or is the poly bolt pattern the same as a B/RB?

Right you are sir. SB 727 will not mount up to a BB. Gonna need a BB specific 727.

GJS · Apr 20, 2017

Seedy Wags said:
Thank you much for the info. Is that a MOPAR part number? Where did you shop for yours? I have seen the Milodan pan that was posted in this thread as well. A might fancy / pricy for my needs, though very cool.

The 187 is stamped on the bottom of the pan. It's Chrysler part # 2532186. I've been trying to find a decent used pan for my Monaco but no luck as of yet.
440 source offers a repop but it's pretty steep money wise as well:
Big Block A-Body 6 Quart Oil Pan with Tie Rod Relief-440 Source

Post a want add up here (I have not yet as I'm going to try to make due with mine first). Someone may have a suitable piece.

300rag · Apr 20, 2017

Snotty said:
No one has said it - won't he need a big block 727 as well? Or is the poly bolt pattern the same as a B/RB?

GJS said:
Right you are sir. SB 727 will not mount up to a BB. Gonna need a BB specific 727.

65 is also the last year for a cable shift trans. Something to keep in mind if reusing the existing linkage.

BeatersRus · Apr 20, 2017

question?
will a bb 65 trans
that was >> pushbutton work with cable shifter console car?
if so,i have you covered Wags.

Snotty · Apr 21, 2017

BeatersRus said:
question?
will a bb 65 trans
that was >> pushbutton work with cable shifter console car?
if so,i have you covered Wags.

'65 wasn't push-button, but was the same transmission. Yes, that will work. So will all before it, but before '62 they are not aluminum; you wouldn't want one of those.

Last year for the buttons was '64, but the only thing that changed until '66 was the selector.

fury fan · Apr 30, 2017

From everything I've heard, 65 is a 1-year trans, as it has a U-joint output shaft, and 64-older is B&T?
66 is a 1-year trans also, due to being lever-shift and the 66-older torque converter spline count.
67-up is more 'universal'.

Seedywags - are you needing the 65-only motormount and oilpan? I have a mount for sure, might have the pan also.

300rag · Apr 30, 2017

fury fan said:
From everything I've heard, 65 is a 1-year trans, as it has a U-joint output shaft, and 64-older is B&T?
66 is a 1-year trans also, due to being lever-shift and the 66-older torque converter spline count.
67-up is more 'universal'.

Seedywags - are you needing the 65-only motormount and oilpan? I have a mount for sure, might have the pan also.

65 is still a ball and trunion trans.

tallhair · Apr 30, 2017

GJS said:
Gonna want to watch out for the idler arm as well. 65 - 71 big block cars used a center sump pan with clearance for it .. number on the pan was 187.

"699" factory pans are pretty much the same too right? Look the same to me. I have a couple of those

fury fan · Apr 30, 2017

300rag said:
65 is still a ball and trunion trans.

On manuals, yes, but AT is a U-joint. My 300L has a double-jointed CV joint on it actually.

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