commando1
Old Man with a Hat
And just how do mere mortals get "Option Accessories Reports"?
For Sale 1965 Dodge Monaco 426 Wedge 4-Speed
- Thread starter moparnutcase
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traintech55
Senior Member
How about a copy of the production report?
Pete Kaczmarski
Senior Member
I wish there would be official numbers for my '62 300 special convert. w/three speed manual. There is only rumors out there for me.
All the numbers are based on percentages . The numbers are out there and the closest were gonna get.
My 70 is 1 of 19 , close enough.
My 70 is 1 of 19 , close enough.
moparnutcase
Senior Member
Thank you for the suggestion and also for the info. We all know about Pontiac Historical Services and the exacting info they have......
So, forgive me and correct me if I happen to be ignorant on this....if you take "x" amount of cars,"x" amount of engines, and "x" amount of transmissions going by "percentages" and mash it all together you are saying that "x" amount should have been built with a particular combo? Galen says nearly 100 or so more than the 150 given....seems to me it is just a big guess with no "firm" numbers. As for others out there, conventional wisdom is that when a car gets to a certain age there are only approximately 10% left in existence. If we stick to that , it would mean somewhere in the area of 15 '65 Monaco 426W 4-speeds should be left. Personally I have never seen nor heard of one and if I may go out on a limb, no one else who has been on this board nor anyone I know in the Mopar hobby has either.
Would love to see "proof" of any of the 15 or so that "should" be left.
Fury Pursuit
Senior Member
OK,....to the OP.
I believe Galen's numbers are for all engines e.g. 361, 383, 426.
Is it a big "guess"? No, it's an estimation based on mathematics.
Respectfully, you are claiming there is one left in existence. The burden to prove what you are claiming is yours, not mine.
Good luck with the sale, it's obviously a very rare car and a very cool car, which anyone would be proud to own.
I believe Galen's numbers are for all engines e.g. 361, 383, 426.
Is it a big "guess"? No, it's an estimation based on mathematics.
Respectfully, you are claiming there is one left in existence. The burden to prove what you are claiming is yours, not mine.
Good luck with the sale, it's obviously a very rare car and a very cool car, which anyone would be proud to own.
moparnutcase
Senior Member
Thanks for your effort. I am not claiming, only suggesting, as like I stated.... I have never seen another or proof of one(since 1991 when I bought my first Monaco). If ANYONE can bring honest to goodness proof I certainly would welcome it. Once again, thanks for your effort!
moparnutcase
Senior Member
In the same period of time I have only come across 6 with a 383 4-speed. So if Galen says 250 total (assuming all engines...383,426) I can't see 150 with a 426 4-speed. As I have stated previously, I have only turned up 4 426 automatics(still surviving). The numbers just don't add up at that juncture of the numbers. Estimation is another term for "educated" guess, it is not exact nor accurate. Not here to argue the info, just trying to clarify it so I can hopefully understand it properly.
Fury Pursuit
Senior Member
I get it....numbers are just numbers...you guys should know that production numbers are not exact, or 100%. They are fluid, and based on the "best" available data at the time.
I don't have the actual Chrysler production reports in my possession so I cant comment further with absolute accuracy.
Some perspective,...Chrysler made 114, (I believe) 65 300 L 4-spd cars. When was the last time you saw one? I've seen 7 or 8 for sale, two convertibles. Rarer than your Monaco, but maybe more survived because of the uniqueness of being a letter car.
Some MoPar historians would say the C-body survival rate is around 6% or 7% because of the fact that it IS a C-body; a much lower survival rate than a Cuda, Charger et. al., the exception would be the 1970 300/H with a near 42% survival rate last time I checked.
I don't have the actual Chrysler production reports in my possession so I cant comment further with absolute accuracy.
Some perspective,...Chrysler made 114, (I believe) 65 300 L 4-spd cars. When was the last time you saw one? I've seen 7 or 8 for sale, two convertibles. Rarer than your Monaco, but maybe more survived because of the uniqueness of being a letter car.
Some MoPar historians would say the C-body survival rate is around 6% or 7% because of the fact that it IS a C-body; a much lower survival rate than a Cuda, Charger et. al., the exception would be the 1970 300/H with a near 42% survival rate last time I checked.
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Fury Pursuit
Senior Member
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Very few were made. Hardly any remain.
Can we all go home now?
Can we all go home now?
traintech55
Senior Member
Sure Stan. But before we all put an end to this I want to close with just one thing, as many on this site know, John and I are very good friends, I have talked to him numerous times about his love for this car. Many here have taken his remarks WAY out of context. John realizes that it will take him a very long time to finish this project, and he has put a considerable amount of time and money into it already. He more than anything would love to see this car go back to the way it left the factory and be an example from the days we all love. Some people on this site should apologize to him for the things they posted. I will not call you out, but realize you were wrong and man up. Bill
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
You took my post wrong. I am sympathetic for Nutcase.
Seriously. I admire him for standing up front if his peers and saying he has a valid reason for for his price. I'm beating up on the guys that are beating up John.
traintech55
Senior Member
Sorry Stan if you took that the wrong way. I know you were standing up for him also. It just burns the crap out of me how some people never take the time to find out the reason behind someone's actions. Many people forget that when you ASSUME something, you make an *** OUT OF YOU AND ME.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
I see his reasoning.
Find another 65 4 speed 426 Monaco. JUST ONE!
I don't think anyone will.
Do I think it will sell? Please don't take this wrong but, I don't think so. Crossing paths with that one person that has to have a 65 4 speed Monaco has very, very, low odds.
BUT, I've been shocked many times on what happens in this hobby. So, maybe...
traintech55
Senior Member
Thanks again for standing up for John.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
It was only because his name is Nut Case.
traintech55
Senior Member
It was only because his name is Nut Case.
65 Monaco
Member
Think you'll be waiting a long time. Personally, I hope that you get it because it would only mean my '65 Monaco with a 413 4bbl would be worth a lot more. But according to Hagerty Insurance, which I have found to be pretty spot on with car values, a 426 4bbl automatic in #1 CONCOURS condition would only be worth $25,000. "Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."
"In #4 FAIR condition, according to Hagerty, it is worth $9,000. The description for Fair condition is; #4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration."
Yes, a 4 speed would add to the value but I don't think it would be $11,000. Plus, the FAIR condition rating is for a car that runs and is drivable.
"In #4 FAIR condition, according to Hagerty, it is worth $9,000. The description for Fair condition is; #4 vehicles are daily drivers, with flaws visible to the naked eye. The chrome might have pitting or scratches, the windshield might be chipped. Paintwork is imperfect, and perhaps the body has a minor dent. Split seams or a cracked dash, where applicable, might be present. No major parts are missing, but the wheels could differ from the originals, or other non- stock additions might be present. A #4 vehicle can also be a deteriorated restoration."
Yes, a 4 speed would add to the value but I don't think it would be $11,000. Plus, the FAIR condition rating is for a car that runs and is drivable.
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