1969 - 1971 C body Stub Frame (subframe)

[commando1]

Yep,............anyone know the difference of a stub frame on a Six Barrel (6BBL) Sport Fury GT ???????

Depends on who's selling it....
Some people think lead is gold.

 

[sauterd]

hi, I just stumbled on this topic which I wanted to know more about. I plan read it more carefully but there'
s a lot of stuff there. just my one question: does this mean that for C body (including convertible) for "frame" rust, there is an advantage versus A, B and E body cars in that some of these parts can be unbolted and a good part bolted in? Sorry, I know it's a basic question, but just trying to clarify that one first thanks.

Dale

 

[polara71]

The A'S B'S & E'S All have bolt on K members which seem to rust out on those. Almost everything is a bolt on with c bodies. Unlike the other lines which are welded

 

[sauterd]

thank you sir...

 

[sevnt300]

hi, I just stumbled on this topic which I wanted to know more about. I plan read it more carefully but there'
s a lot of stuff there. just my one question: does this mean that for C body (including convertible) for "frame" rust, there is an advantage versus A, B and E body cars in that some of these parts can be unbolted and a good part bolted in? Sorry, I know it's a basic question, but just trying to clarify that one first thanks.

Dale

Torsion Quiet frames in particular can look perfect when you see them bolted onto the car but when unbolted you can discover rust through where the rubber isolators are located. The isolators act as a catch all for debris and moisture, this can be true even on arid southwestern cars. The moisture trap tends to also rust away the anchoring bolts that hold the frame to the car so inspect it all before giving it passing grade. If your frame has rust in these areas it is not the end of the world, they can usually be repaired pretty simply as long as the rest of the frame is solid.

 

[polara71]

They are all suspect at hidden or " buried " attachment points. Inside the cowl, pinch welds, under trim, carpet, seat bolts can even harbor rust or rot . I've never let any of the aforementioned reasons stop me from buying a car. I've always thought with my pants and let my head deal with it later

 

[Wollfen]

The V8 Frames are not all the same. The difference between the 47 inch torsion bar frames found on Chryslers and Dodges and the 44 inch torsion bar frames found on the Plymouth's and later Dodges can be identified by the torsion bar hex anchor in the crossmember. This is where the 3 inch difference is on both type of frames, on the longer T-bar frames the anchor is longer and protrudes out the back more than the shorter T-bar frames, all other dimensions are the same.


View attachment 55395View attachment 55396

This speaks volumes, this appears to tell me that the ONLY difference between Chrysler, Dodge/ Plymouth frames is the length of the hex tube itself, all other dimensions are the same?

 

[sevnt300]

This speaks volumes, this appears to tell me that the ONLY difference between Chrysler, Dodge/ Plymouth frames is the length of the hex tube itself, all other dimensions are the same?

Yes, if you choose to use the longer torsion bar stub in a Fury or a shorter torsion bar stub in a Chrysler it will bolt up, it won't be correct but it will still work. As I tried to point out early on you are not limited to just one year or car to get the correct parts from and how you can't just use anything, you need to use the correct parts that go along with whatever style stub frame you have (rigid, T.Q. or Imperial) such as fender wells radiator yoke etc. and to point out why they did what they did and why mixing these parts might not be such a good idea. There may be earlier stubs that can work on 69-71 cars or later stubs that might fit them, I only gave the information I had access to. If you want to know other applications it is not hard to research the information, it is out there. The information that I presented in this post used to pretty common knowledge among the C body folks years ago but I guess as time marches on there are less examples and experience to reference from so misinformation becomes more abundant. I am aware that I pissed off some gentlemen on this forum but I hope that I was able to help some others find answers to their questions.

 

[MAXWEDGECHAR]

Hi Guys; I'm a Newbie here so if I goof up please forgive me. In 1972 my father took our '68 Custom Suburban through a curve on I-95 in Wilmington, Delaware and unceremoniously stuffed into the median. Full front sheet metal and front stub frame. They sold the wreck to me and I found most of the sheet metal on an old police car and bought the rest from the dealer. I thought I was going to do a Six Pack 440 swap so I found a '68 New Yorker stub and had it installed with new HD torsion bars. The car sat like it was doing a full throttle launch all the time! And no I never did the swap. I also think the '65 through '68s had a separate 6 cylinder stub, Yes?

 

[sevnt300]

Hi Guys; I'm a Newbie here so if I goof up please forgive me. In 1972 my father took our '68 Custom Suburban through a curve on I-95 in Wilmington, Delaware and unceremoniously stuffed into the median. Full front sheet metal and front stub frame. They sold the wreck to me and I found most of the sheet metal on an old police car and bought the rest from the dealer. I thought I was going to do a Six Pack 440 swap so I found a '68 New Yorker stub and had it installed with new HD torsion bars. The car sat like it was doing a full throttle launch all the time! And no I never did the swap. I also think the '65 through '68s had a separate 6 cylinder stub, Yes?

I can tell you that the 1968 Plymouth 6cyl stub frame (#2859 836) is different then the '68 Plymouth V-8 stub (#2859 834). The main difference should only be where the motor mounts are. The longer torsion bar Dodge/ Chrysler frame is (#2859 835), by your description, if your wheelbase measures out the way it should you might only need a torsion bar adjustment to correct the height.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Wonderwagon]

So in preparation for a possible front stub frame replacement, the thread states that any stub frame may interchange between any Plymouth except the sedan and hardtop (wagon is application). Is this true between divisions.

With this in mind I looked in both my Plymouth 1969 passenger car application loose leaf catalog and the 69 collision parts book. I found only 1 part number for the frame part#2934 459 for the eight cylinder. Maybe discussed but additional enlightenment or clarification of what I have read. The wrong replacement could be expensive. Attached is the reference page section.

 

[commando1]

I have been overwhelmed with stub frame overload since joining this Forum.
This is what I have surmised.
You can't use any Imperial stub.
Using a TorsionAir stub (71? and later) with the isolaters is too damn much trouble.
The Fury stub is 2"(?) shorter but the longer Dodge/Chrysler stub will still mount in the fury.

Wait for confirmation from others. Im just getting the ball rolling for discusion.

 

[Wonderwagon]

commando1 thanks for the quick reply, the additional length accounts for the the same part numbers for the Dodge and Chrysler(these have longer torsion Bars?). With the Imperal also having a different part number. Finally with the Plymouth having yet another part number due to the length difference. Ordering the stub frame is still off in the near distance. Yes, from the thread the Torsion Quiet was never considered due to the info posted

 

[sauterd]

ok, sorry to be so dense, so in terms of the basic difference with A, B and C bodies, where I assume there are front and rear frame rails only and if rusty they have to be welded to be fixed, with the C bodies, the front suspension (if damaged) can simply be unbolted and replaced with another? But the rear parts are just frame rails just like the A, B and C bodies and would require welding? again, sorry, but still not getting those basic facts. thanks.

 

[polara71]

Yes...

 

[sauterd]

thank you, sir.

 

[polara71]

thank you, sir.

I've always been a C body guy. In 1991 I bought a 72 Challenger to be cheaper on gas than my Fury. I put that Challenger into the side of a trash truck. I bought a parts car and was quite surprised and disappointed when I realized I couldn't just unbolt. That's when I started looking at how they were all put together. My presumption was they were all bolt ons. Come to find out my C body heritage was pretty much indigenous to Cs

 

[sauterd]

yeah, I see what you mean, interesting story, thanks....

 

[sfgt]

1969 and 1970 Plymouth V8 frames are the same, they have a shorter hex welded in the rear part of the frame to accommodate the shorter torsion bars. This is the only difference between the 69 - 70 Dodge and Chrysler Rigid Mount frames. Plymouth waited until 1971 to switch to the Torsion Quiet set up, those also have the shorter hex in the back of the frame.

Imperial frames are completely different and will give you a longer wheel base so you would have to use everything in front of the doors from an Imperial if you used the frame from one.

 

[commando1]

Priceless. I love this Forum.

1969 and 1970 Plymouth V8 frames are the same, they have a shorter hex welded in the rear part of the frame to accommodate the shorter torsion bars. This is the only difference between the 69 - 70 Dodge and Chrysler Rigid Mount frames. Plymouth waited until 1971 to switch to the Torsion Quiet set up, those also have the shorter hex in the back of the frame.