1970 chrysler 300 converter picture?

[gransedan]

Hi,

1970 chrysler 300.
Correct me if i'm wrong. The 440HP block (original to the car) is externally balanced right?
So, would there be weights on the converter?
Maybe someone can post a picture of the correct one.

Strangely enough mine does not have (2) weights on it.
I thought the transmission was original to the car, so i would see those weights.
Now i'm a bit confused.

The car drives fine, i don't feel a disbalance.
It's a steel crank right?

Thanks!

Pieter

 

[Davea Lux]

Hi,

1970 chrysler 300.
Correct me if i'm wrong. The 440HP block (original to the car) is externally balanced right?
So, would there be weights on the converter?
Maybe someone can post a picture of the correct one.

Strangely enough mine does not have (2) weights on it.
I thought the transmission was original to the car, so i would see those weights.
Now i'm a bit confused.

The car drives fine, i don't feel a disbalance.
It's a steel crank right?

Thanks!

Pieter

The blocks that are stamped HP have a steel crank but there are two different types of balancing systems. There is a forged steel crank that was used on the standard 350 hp versions and there was a forged steel crank that was used on the six BBL and some Magnum, TNT and HP versions. (Some U Code police cruisers also had externally balanced cranks) The forged steel crank that is externally balanced has has the egg shaped center on the harmonic balancer and weights on the convertor. That is external balancing. The standard steel crank has no weights on the convertor and a round center section on the harmonic balancer and is internally balanced. You probably have a 350 horse engine E-85 engine code. That one will be internally balanced and would be correct.

Dave

Edited post

 

[commando1]

Strangely enough mine does not have (2) weights on it.

Not strange. It is correct for your steel crank, non-6 pak, 1970 440 HP.
It's that simple

 

[ceebuddy]

I am in no way an expert on this topic. But I think that in 1970 all crankshafts were still drop-forged. Beginning in 1971, the 383 low-compression engines started using cast crankshafts which had made their way into (standard) 440's by 1972. So Pieter's 1970 Chrysler 300 should still have a forged crank. I doubt that these required weights on the converter.

I always thought that a harmonic balancer is already external balancing. The question is if it will suffice to do the job of balancing or if additional weights on the converter are needed, which was not required on forged cranks.

 

[Big_John]

No cast cranks in 1970. All were forged steel.

The '70 and up "Six pack" and HP engines with the heavy rods and high compression pistons used extra external weights.


Edited to correct

 

[gransedan]

I have the 350hp non-TNT. Is that the 440HP block?

 

[gransedan]

Thanks for the reply's!

 

[Davea Lux]

I have the 350hp non-TNT. Is that the 440HP block?

Look at the machined pad near the distributor, the letters HP1 or HP2 will be stamped on the pad. The letter code for the year and the displacement will also be on this pad ie F 440 for a '70 engine. An engine assembly date is usually also stamped on the pad.

Dave

No cast cranks in 1970. All were forged steel.

The "Six pack" engines with the heavy rods and high compression pistons used extra external weights. All others were internally balanced, including HP 4bbl engines, were internally balanced.

John is right all '70 engines were forged cranks, my old brain did not have it's coffee this morning. I corrected my previous post.
Starting '74 the 440 engines had cast cranks.

Dave

 

[Clover]

I have the 350hp non-TNT. Is that the 440HP block?

No. Although the only difference in the block itself is the HP stamp. “HP” stands for “High Performance” which is not the 350 horsepower version.

 

[fury fan]

Although the original question was answered, there's some mis-info in here.
70 440 6-pack engines, and the HPs, are externally balanced.
The balance pieces differ from the later cast-crank 440s.

I always thought that a harmonic balancer is already external balancing. The question is if it will suffice to do the job of balancing or if additional weights on the converter are needed, which was not required on forged cranks.

Technically the item is a damper, which is to absorb harmonics. For a steel-crank engine, this damper is mostly axisymmetrical. For an externally-balanced engine, the damper has an oblong weight section to it (and weights on converter also).

70 440HP damper. The drillholes are to balance the damper to its target condition. Note the sharper edges at the green line, which resembles a standard steel-crank damper. A cast-crank damper is thicker and has a bevel on it.

I didn't think I had this pic, but it's in the folder for my 70 300 with TNT.
The car was #s matching, but this converter has some blue on it, so maybe the trans had been rebuilt prior to me.
At maybe 90k I developed a *horrendous* trans leak at the input bushing/seal, and installed new parts with a used converter.
Presumably I transferred those weights to the used converter, but my memory isn't that good. I do remember being surprised by something I saw in there, something that differed from what I expected. Maybe it was the blue paint.

 

[Davea Lux]

Although the original question was answered, there's some mis-info in here.
70 440 6-pack engines, and the HPs, are externally balanced.
The balance pieces differ from the later cast-crank 440s.


Technically the item is a damper, which is to absorb harmonics. For a steel-crank engine, this damper is mostly axisymmetrical. For an externally-balanced engine, the damper has an oblong weight section to it (and weights on converter also).

70 440HP damper. The drillholes are to balance the damper to its target condition. Note the sharper edges at the green line, which resembles a standard steel-crank damper. A cast-crank damper is thicker and has a bevel on it.
View attachment 209306


I didn't think I had this pic, but it's in the folder for my 70 300 with TNT.
The car was #s matching, but this converter has some blue on it, so maybe the trans had been rebuilt prior to me.
At maybe 90k I developed a *horrendous* trans leak at the input bushing/seal, and installed new parts with a used converter.
Presumably I transferred those weights to the used converter, but my memory isn't that good. I do remember being surprised by something I saw in there, something that differed from what I expected. Maybe it was the blue paint.

View attachment 209313

I am confused, I thought that external balancing was only necessary if the heavier 6BBL rods were used? I know that some of the U-Code police cruisers had the heavier rods.

Dave

 

[Big_John]

70 440 6-pack engines, and the HPs, are externally balanced.

I have read that in a couple places, but also have read in more places that it was just the 6 pack engines that were externally balanced.

I have looked in the parts book and they do list the same rods and dampener for the HP 4bbl and the 6bbl engines.

But!! Having had the HP engines apart in the two SFGTs that I had, neither one were externally balanced. I was also involved in building engines for a C/SA '70 440 6bbl Road Runner back in the 70's and it was my understanding that that was the only externally balanced engine at that time. FWIW, pistons for the 6bbl were different, with valve notches and riding higher in the bore than the 4bbl.

So, I'm not doubting what you are saying, but my experience was different. It may have been a running change or I may just be wrong here (most likely) I don't know.

The bottom line would be to look at the dampener and if it is not as you've shown, and is a dampener for an internally balanced engine, then the converter in question is correct. If it does have the dampener for the external balanced engine, then the converter might be wrong, but I'm not going to say one way or the other.

 

[Furyman]

I have read that in a couple places, but also have read in more places that it was just the 6 pack engines that were externally balanced.

I have looked in the parts book and they do list the same rods and dampener for the HP 4bbl and the 6bbl engines.

But!! Having had the HP engines apart in the two SFGTs that I had, neither one were externally balanced.


Nigels reply :

1970 Sport Fury GT's did not use 440 HP's hence no heavy rods. A true 70-71 U code engine is externally balanced...uses the heavy rods and unique balancer and convertor. The rods /balancer/convertor are the same part #'s as the 6 Pak engine. Pistons are not due to the higher compression ratio on the 6 pak engines.

 

[Big_John]

1970 Sport Fury GT's did not use 440 HP's hence no heavy rods. A true 70-71 U code engine is externally balanced...uses the heavy rods and unique balancer and convertor. The rods /balancer/convertor are the same part #'s as the 6 Pak engine. Pistons are not due to the higher compression ratio on the 6 pak engines.

I had forgotten that about the SFGT.... Too many years ago.. LOL

I stand corrected about the 4bbl/6bbl balancing.

 

[fury fan]

There used to be a running joke over at Moparts: 'how do I know if this 70-71 440HP engine is really a 6-pack engine?'
Answer - only if the stamped sequential digits on the block match that of a 6-pack car.

 

[pomonamissel]

it looks like a heavy connecting rod motor like the 440 six packs used .

 

[Clover]

For years I’ve heard that ‘70 440 HP engines were made both ways, ‘71 HPs are all wide-beam rods and most ‘72 HPs are also. Decades ago, I bought a ‘71 440 HP with trans out of a ‘71 Newport 4dr in the junkyard. The VIN verified it as correct. It was orange and had the wide-beam rods with external balancing as pictured on this thread. The converter was partly orange with no blue and definitely had the same weights.

 

[fury fan]

Good to know on the converter weights from my picture. They are obviously too large to be the weights to balance the converter itself, and seem too small for a later 70 ext balance.

I'm thinking I cut some pieces of steel same size as those weights and welded them on, but that's been 10 years ago since I did that.

Would kinda make sense on some 72s having heavy rods, as there were just a few 72 6-pack engines.

 

[Big_John]

Good to know on the converter weights from my picture. They are obviously too large to be the weights to balance the converter itself, and seem too small for a later 70 ext balance.

I'm thinking I cut some pieces of steel same size as those weights and welded them on, but that's been 10 years ago since I did that.

Would kinda make sense on some 72s having heavy rods, as there were just a few 72 6-pack engines.

There are B&M flex plates that will take care of that without needing to weld any weights on the converter.

Chrysler SFI Flexplate 6 Bolt Crank for TF 727 1971 and newer Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth w 383 CID - B&M Transmissions, Shifters, Torque Converters, Diff Covers, Coolers

 

[Davea Lux]

There are B&M flex plates that will take care of that without needing to weld any weights on the converter.

Chrysler SFI Flexplate 6 Bolt Crank for TF 727 1971 and newer Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth w 383 CID - B&M Transmissions, Shifters, Torque Converters, Diff Covers, Coolers

Welding on a converter is not a good idea, go with John on this one or go with a rebuilt converter that is correct for the application.

Dave