1976 Gran fury wagon. Want to go from 440 to a 318

[68 4spd Fury]

Maybe just disconnect the secondaries on the carb?

 

[John Hatchard]

Glad to hear you got your son and wagon!

I lost everything in my divorce, had to start again from scratch doh...
Lost the access to my two girls and my lovely son too...

But I met a wonderful woman who allows me all I want in my mopar life.
She says I can any car I want as long as I don't drive it (too expensive) lol.
Gas at an all time high in the UK...

Don't let him drive your wagon, now or ever!
Trust is fine, but I had to buy my own car at 20 and couldn't drive a Mopar till I was 25!
Why, because you couldn't get insurance and I would have killed myself and many others too...

Got my first wagon when I was 30 and it was a scream a 70 Dodge Coronet.
Sold that and got a 78 Volare wagon in the Naughties, miss them both...

Wagons can be replaced, fool-hardy children are priceless...

 

[Snotty]

This whole question rubs me the wrong way. All I sense is that you don't trust your son, and by swapping to a smaller engine before you let him drive the car, that's what you're telling him, loud and clear. Would you have wanted your dad to do the same with you? My first car was a '61 VW with a 40 HP engine; I wrecked it 3 times. I agree with Commando 100%. I think this is a bad idea on so many levels.

 

[twostick]

I didn't catch how much of a 440 you have but if it's a stock 440, especially a low compression one, remember it's going in a 5000 lb wagon. It will barely get out of its own way compared to most cars on the road today as it is.

Kevin

 

[Big_John]

However I'm still looking for an answer on if they actually make a adapter mounts for the swap

Since no one has answered this, I'll take a stab at it.

My first thought would be it's just a motor mount swap, but then, in the deep recesses of my old brain, I remembered that they are spool type mounts and they are a different animal from the earlier two piece mounts that I'm familiar with.

I looked at Rock Auto and confirmed that the 360 and 400/440 use the same, one piece, motor mount. I doubled checked that on some other cars, and that looks correct.

So, if the mounts are the same, that means something else has to change because of the size of the engine, meaning the center to center on the spool mounts would be smaller on the 360.

I don't have access to a '76 parts manual (this may be a great investment for you) but I do have for a '74. They started using the spool mounts around 1973 or 74, so with a little back and forth, the '74 and '76 spool mounts are the same, so that's part of the puzzle.

Some searching in the '74 manual and it shows the difference in the C body between 360 and 400/440 is the frame. That makes some sense. The attachments to the frame for the spool mount are pretty simple, so the frame itself is probably the same, except the "ears" are welded on in a different spot depending on the engine.

So.... Long story short, it isn't going be as simple as changing the stock motor mounts. To do it with factory pieces, you'd have to change the frame and that's not an afternoon project.

I haven't even touched on 318 versus 360 mounts... I had to refresh my memory on this one LOL. The 360 rear mount ear on the left side of the block is wider than the than the 318, so you either have to find a correct spool type mount or insert a spacer in the 360 mount like this pic I stole off the web.

Hope that helps. I kind of doubt you'll find an aftermarket mount that will do this conversion... Most guys go small to big block for one thing.

 

[Big_John]

I think everyone needs to take a step back and let him do what he wants with his vehicles and let him guide his 17 year old son the way he feels best.

He's involving his son in an engine swap and that's something that most 17 year old guys wouldn't touch these days. That's HUGE!

Sometimes it's hard enough to do the right things for your kids... Armchair quarterbacking a situation that we really don't know about isn't the way to help.

What he is doing is giving his son a chance to enjoy his old car, while at the same time swapping the 440 into his project truck.... and do it with the engines he has on hand.

So, instead of giving advice on what to do with his son, how about helping him with the swap??

 

[70bigblockdodge]

My son banged up a Subaru. 150 hp 3000#, crappy Forester. Wrecks happen, a 318 will not fix it. If it has a 4 bbl just disconnect the secondary linkage.
Leave the 440 in the wagon and put the 318 in the truck, the world does not need to waste another big block on a truck.

 

[John Hatchard]

Ok then, I wasn't gonna say this but I will.

The bigger the car the bigger the accident!

Back in 1979 I had a lotus Cortina 1600, it was quick but handled well.
I had been track racing so I knew my limitations on the street in my early twenties.
The company I worked for had an influx of 16 year old apprentices.

By the time they was 17 the crap hit the fan!
My lad was seriously injured in a motorcycle accident and lost a leg!
But there was worse to come...

One of the lads had very rich parents and he was a dickhead with his bling.
Dad bought him a Granada 3 litre for his 17th Birthday and he passed his test that day.
He brought it into work with his gold chains and chest all pumped out.
Look what I got, twice as powerful as your 1600 poo car...

A couple of weeks went past and we went out for a Pool match.
It was a single carriage way road and I was in front of him.
He didn't like that, so he overtook me and about six other cars in front!

When we got to the Pub 'I tore him off a strip' and he just laughed.

The following night it rained and he had not driven in the rain as yet?
He was hooning aruond with his mates and girlfriend in the high street and lost it on a bend.
Straight into a large tree!

His girlfriend was cut in half and Mark who only had a lap belt, died too...

17 years and two weeks old, it still haunts me even now...

 

[John Hatchard]

Next story,

I flew over to LA in 2004 to buy an engine from Tom Nelson in LA.

We got to know one of his workers real well and we had a beer or two together.
Then one morning I saw him asleep in his car outside the workshop!
''A rough night Glenn'' I said , to which he replied ''its rough every night living in your car''!

Then he told me his story.
He was a car-guy and built a 'hotrod' for his young son.
His wife didn't agree with it, but he carried on anyways...

Well to cut a long story short, he died 'drag racing it on the street'...

His wife never forgave him and he left home in shame and guilt!
Found a carpark in LA and a job and 'lived his car', till he drank himself to death!!!

You have been warned, more stories if you need them...

RIP Glenn, God and your wife have forgiven you, as you were 'not to know' the outcome...

It always happens to someone else, but not every time...

 

[Xenon]

Thank you John Hatchard for your lovely stories.
Now lets see if you can grasp this..
There are several members on this board, including myself, who when they were teenagers had performance cars..
3500 pound cars with 300/400/and even some 500 horsepower engines.. Not a 5000# wagon with a motor home engine.
And guess what, we still are not dead..
We didn't have great tires.. Polyglass tires and a spit of rain equal no traction,, not todays radicals that seem to grip everything..
I was 17 and had a 383 Dodge Dart.. 3200# and 330 hp.. And skinny polyglass tires..
And guess what.. Here I am still around and still driving like a maniac ( to which many here can atest to)..

So again, John Hatchard, thank you for your lovely stories of doom and gloom that only help to re-enforce the desires
of an over protective parent who has very little trust or faith in their children...

 

[sixpkrt]

Here I am still around and still driving like a maniac

Ain't that the truth.

BTW, what happened to the steering wheel emoji?

 

[Snotty]

Thank you John Hatchard for your lovely stories.
Now lets see if you can grasp this..
There are several members on this board, including myself, who when they were teenagers had performance cars..
3500 pound cars with 300/400/and even some 500 horsepower engines.. Not a 5000# wagon with a motor home engine.
And guess what, we still are not dead..
We didn't have great tires.. Polyglass tires and a spit of rain equal no traction,, not todays radicals that seem to grip everything..
I was 17 and had a 383 Dodge Dart.. 3200# and 330 hp.. And skinny polyglass tires..
And guess what.. Here I am still around and still driving like a maniac ( to which many here can atest to)..

So again, John Hatchard, thank you for your lovely stories of doom and gloom that only help to re-enforce the desires
of an over protective parent who has very little trust or faith in their children...

Agreed. There's always a story on either side. When my daughter was 17 I told her should could drive my '62 413 New Yorker to school if she could get it out of the garage; reverse band was broken. She did until I sold the car when I bought my Newport.

 

[commando1]

Thank you John Hatchard for your lovely stories.
Now lets see if you can grasp this..
There are several members on this board, including myself, who when they were teenagers had performance cars..
3500 pound cars with 300/400/and even some 500 horsepower engines.. Not a 5000# wagon with a motor home engine.
And guess what, we still are not dead..
We didn't have great tires.. Polyglass tires and a spit of rain equal no traction,, not todays radicals that seem to grip everything..
I was 17 and had a 383 Dodge Dart.. 3200# and 330 hp.. And skinny polyglass tires..
And guess what.. Here I am still around and still driving like a maniac ( to which many here can atest to)..

So again, John Hatchard, thank you for your lovely stories of doom and gloom that only help to re-enforce the desires
of an over protective parent who has very little trust or faith in their children...

Thank you for that because that's reality.
I should have been killed starting at 16 in a 64 LeSabre and ending up several years.ago.with a tuned new C6 Vette where the tires broke loose going into 3rd.
That's just the car part.
I,ve water skied and did a ramp jump, snow skied down a Black Diamond trail, walked on joists putting up rafters, wired a house, jacknifed a semi, went through my wife's menopause, jumped off cliffs in quarry ponds, spent an enormous amount of time in the worst slums at night.....

You're overthinking him driving a car.
Allow him to earn his man card the right way and make sure he wears a cap properly.

 

[LocuMob]

Leave the wagon alone and teach your son how to drive a car properly. Then you and your son will have the memories of driving around together in the car. Teach him to check those fluids, and tires, and maintain a car so it doesn't go to crap. Teach him to respect things so they last a long time.

You can get another RV 440 for the truck.

 

[commando1]

I want to talk about my relationship with my father. He was a travelling accountant that I saw 1 day a week
My father also was totally unskilled in anything. Therefor I was literally unsupervised on everything I did and never joined me on anything I wanted to do so I learned everything myself.
My father made one thing mandatory and that was to know all the rules of being a gentleman from how to dress to giving a firm handshake to men and a gentle one to women.
Actually, being the best gentleman I could be got me out a few potentionly deadly situations.

Any car you can think of will not prevent him from getting killed.

 

[77newyorker440]

I understand the issue of the 440 and such, BUT there's a LOT of things which will NOT directly hook-up other than just the motor mounts. Wiring harnesses, a/c lines, linkages, etc. I'd find a way to disconnect the secondaries on the carb, for example, on the 440. THEN teach him how to drive defensively and send him to a driving school too. Teach him to RESPECT the power at hand rather than withhold it from him, hopefully. Not to mention that HE'll pay for anything that breaks.

Now, certainly he and some of his buddies can probably determine that the secondaries aren't working and try to remedy that. BUT if you remove the linkage, where are they going to find another piece to fix it? Of course, you can check the oil every so often to see if they might have tried.

ONE other thing to consider . . . although the 440 is powerful, almost ANY 4-cyl turbo with a 8-speed automatic will leave it in the dust at a red light. So it's not the fastest thing on the road, by a long shot, from my observations. PLUS, if it was my offspring, I'd rather they be in a heavy car than in a little sedan, but that's just me. Just make sure they wear the seat belts!

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

Same thought process my family had, first car is a 77 NYB with a 440, weighs a million pounds and does 0-60 in 3 to 5 business days, still love her though

 

[polaratherapy]

OK, I see everyone has great advise on the car and how to slow it down, no one has pointed out that it's a wagon that has a lot of room in the back, my mind at that age was not so much how cool a ride I had but can the back seats fold down for some extra leg room if you know what I mean. My Pontiac Acadian served me well!
So if your son pulls up to some girl's house with a big wagon like that, and I was the dad, HUUUMMMMMM!
Save your car, get him to earn a car, make him work for it, something small and economical he can buzz around in is the way to go! The wagon was your dream not his!
How much is a gallon in the States these days? It's almost $ 2 bucks a liter in Canada which is a lot.

Have a good day!

 

[NewportRbod]

Lol I get where your coming from but he's doing all the work.its so he can learn too about engine swaps. I have all faith in my son but I would be the fool and just let him have a long heavy car that can really get up and go. Then he has to learn how to brake and control a very heavy car.
It would be similar in a way that I have a Beretta arx100 assault rifle .think most parents would just give him that rifle to learn the safety fundamentals and firing it at a target while being safe at all times. Hell no I wouldn't take the chance.thats why his but had a pellet gun that looks and functions similar to that rifle to learn before moving up.

Ok ok truth be known. I have a 87 dodge short step side that I been building for like 20 years that's always been on the back burner.... marriage can do that... especially a toxic one. Lol. Soo it has a 8 3/4 sure grip with 3.91 gears. I have a full tunnel ram set up for a 440 that I been itching to set up. So I have a hidden agenda to put the 440 from the wagon and finally get my truck running.

As I read through all this I had a inkling there was more to the story. You sly old dog!
I just want to say that regardless of age, none of us, NONE, are IMMUNE TO BEING STUPID. I had this pointed out to my wife and I and when we went out on an interstate trip, no tools, in a beater van, to pay cash, to pick up a evil bay 1979 Chrysler R body Newport-base. We gave no mention of where, other than rural PA., when we would be back, who we were meeting, Yada Yada Yada.

Well the kids went ballistic, having a well rehearsed family meeting (intervention?) with us. They did their best to point out how reckless, how bad things could have happened - blah, blah, blah. To their chagrin we sat there and only occasionally giggled. The shoe on the other foot moment in life occurred.

Now then, YOU AND YOUR SON WILL STILL DO STUPID THINGS. Do the truck with your 440 and transmission. Work with your son to repower the wagon. Myself, I'd consider a 400 B block and transmission. Virtual drop in, mild engine but with a good potential say as a 451 stroker. By having sweat equity, bloody knuckles, a black fingernail, and a lot of good memories, your son will be well prepared to do great things AND accept responsibility for the "what were you thinking moments". Kind of ever the evolving life experience.

 

[Paul Clark]

Ok it's been a very long time since I been on here. I went through a nasty divorce by her choice. She had a lawyer and I did not.some how in the end I got full custody of my son and the wagon I'd say I definitely came out on top.anyways moving on to the subject at hand. My son will be 17 next month.he can't stop talking about how he wants to drive the wagon and when it will be his. It has a very strong 440 infact it's too strong for him right now.i have a healthy 318 with tranny that I want to swap out? My question is ,is there a company that makes motor mount adapters or must I look for a k frame or subframe for a smallblock. Any advice at all would be greatfull

if you are worried about the 440 being to much there are a few thing you can do. 1st you can adjust the throttle linkage(so he can't go full throttle), 2nd you can disconnect the secondaries on the carburetor and third you can retard the timing of the engine. this are all cheaper then doing an engine swap.

 

[John Hatchard]

The longer you live the more you see!

I class myself as an excellent driver, raced since the 70's...
Surprisingly a few times ( to me) I have lost control and been lucky!

I will race anyone, anywhere and anytime...
I would not have said that when I was 17 and lived to tell the tale, I bet...

My mum said ''I was an accident waiting to happen''.
She was right, I had many accidents, as do most folks.

No more stories of doom and gloom lol...

The next person that says he had a muscle car when they was 18 ain't getting a Christmas card...
I had to save up and buy my own when I was 30!