71' 383 Newport Custom 2bbl->4bbl

Unix

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Hi guys,

made up my mind, and will be switching from stock 2bbl to 4bbl on my 71 383 engine.
Here is my parts list. I am curious on your thoughts and suggestions. btw/ anything else i will need to get this done?

Edelbrock 2186 Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifolds | Summit Racing
Quick Fuel BR-67270 Quick Fuel Brawler Diecast Series Carburetors | Summit Racing
Fel-Pro 1214 Fel-Pro Performance Valley Pan Gasket Sets | Summit Racing
Summit Racing SUM-G1398 Summit Racing™ Carburetor Spacers | Summit Racing
 
Don’t block off the heat crossover with that intake gasket. It won’t run very well for the first hour of running the engine. That heat is needed to atomize the fuel.
 
@Unix -- I don't see any mention of going to a high stall torque converter; if I were you, I would follow the advice of @saforwardlook and consider it seriously:


See also his more detailed post here.
 
To me . . .
Intake manifold choice is good. The plugs to block of the not-needed EGR should be in the install kit with the manifold. The noted valley pan gasket kit is good, too. The paper gaskets are needed to keep the beads on the metal gasket from putting a pattern on the softer aluminum intake's gasket surfaces. I would fill the beaded indentions on the metal gasket with black, high-heat silicon sealer and then put a skin coat of the same sealer on the paper items before installation, letting it all cure for a day or so prior to installation. This makes, from my experience, a very tight seal between the manifold and cyl heads.

I'm not sure of the allure of the Brawler carb, other than price. They do have a lot of adjustability with their removeable/changeable air fleeds in the upper throttle bore area, BUT you might get into some trouble by changing them without some knowledge of what they do and why, possibly.

If price is an issue, possibly the Summit-branded 4bbls (which are old Ford design carbs) with annular discharge primary venturis can be the "hot trick". Or an Edelbrock AVS2 with the same style of annular discharge primary venturis.

A possibly emerging issue with the Holley 4150/4160 and spreadbore 4175 carbs is that the accel pump housing is logically located on the bottom of the primary float bowl. This ensures the pump easily refills after each pump shot discharge. BUT being that it's at the bottom of the float bowl, should it ever start to seep, it can empty the float bowl onto the intake manifold. Which might cause other things than just a discoloration of the aluminum where the fuel drops fall. Holley does make ethanol-resistant pump diaphrams now.

The phenolic spacer might seem to be a good idea, but . . . it might not really be any better than the stock OEM base gasket used back then. Same thickness, but the phenolic item does not have any bushings in the stud holes to keep from uneven-torquing the hold down nuts. I learned that lesson when I cracked the baseplate on a Carter AVS 4732S on my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl back in about 1976. I was seeking to help the hot re-start issue with a popular base gasket insulator stack of alunimum plates and softer gaskets. That last little bit of snugging-down did it. OUCH! New carb time. And, no significant difference in the hot re-start issue either! From then on out, nothing but Chrysler OEM base gaskets with NO issues.

Other things? The necessary throttle linkage bracket from Holley or Edelbrock, to bolt to the existing lever on the carb. Plus some wiring and OEM-spec connectors/terminals to power the electric choke from a keyed power source. You can run the wire across the edge of the cowl with the existing harness, then have it make a lh turn with that harness, straight down the rh valve cover and to the carb. With a bit of finesse and such, it will be hidden to many eyes. You can re-use the existing carb stud for the throttle/kickdown/cruise control linkage you now have.

You MIGHT need to readjust the existing throttle cable in its mount at the rear of the intake manifold. With the new carb installed, just loosen the adjusting nut and slide the cable forward in that mounting. Hopefully there is enough adjustment for that to happen. Similarly, the kickdown rod will need to be slid forward, too. Hopefully, you can slide the front section forward to get what you need. There might be a gauge hole in the kickdown bellcrank to put a small screwdriver into so you can tell if you will need any extra "extenders" in that area?

No mention of the engine and your intended use, yet? Presuming with the 383 2bbl, it has the normal 2.76 rear axle ratio and P225/75R-15 tires? Same OEM cam? Single exhaust?

Now, for some reality issues. The primary side of any 600cfm 4bbl will be the same as the Carter or similar 2bbl that is now on the car. 1.56" throttle bores. Which means that you might not feel anything special until after about 3000rpm. How much time do you spend in those higher rpm levels? General drive-around things might feel a bit crisper in throttle response due to the added refinements in venturi booster/accelerator pump discharge nozzle designs since the later 1960s (when the carb was designed) and fuel mpg might slightly improve on the highway due to a possibly leaner calibration. But that is to be seen when it might happen.

I don't recall @saforwardlook recommending a looser torque converter per se, BTAIM. To me, the term "looser torque converter" can mean many things. Chrysler had "low stall" and "high stall" designations for OEM torque converters, with the "high stall" designation usually on the 10.75" diameter converters (which also took 1 qt less to refill the transmision they were installed on). My '70 Monaco 383 4bbl has such a converter on it from the factory. But getting a "higher stall" converter in the aftermarket can seem to be a big crapshoot.

The "low stall" converter with (suspected) 2.76 rear gears is a good combination for highway driving. At normal highway speeds (like 55mph+) the converter is locked-up as you would expect it to be. But that tightness can also put a little damper on off-line acceleration, which is one of the compromises in torque converter design, by observation. With 3.23s, the looser converter can work well as by the time you get to 60mph, the converter on the verge of being locked-up as expected.

In these torque converters, when I mean "locked-up" I mean that there is very little slippage in them. Whereas in the later "lock-up" torque converters, a mechanical clutch in the converter applies and "locks-up" the two halves of the converter for better fuel econony. I wanted to mention that distinction.

On my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl, 3.23s w/P225/75R-15 tires, which makes 25mph/1000 engine rpm, I noticed that at 62mph, the throttle response (think one of those famous "hairs') became very "tight". One hair's more throttle was added, speed immediately increased. At 60mph and lower in 3rd, throttle response was a bit more soggy, by comparison. Yet on our '66 Newport 383 2bbl 2.76 car, throttle response was linear at all speeds. No "soggy below __ mph" or "tighter above ___ mph" situation. With the 2bbl having the 11.75" torque converter. Key thing is that by the time you get to 60mph, the converter needs to be locked-up of you can lose fuel economy, by observation. Unless you take notice of this and drive with a steadier throttle foot, from my experiences. Another story.

For reference, the 383 in my '70 Monaco has the same 256/260 cam as your 383 2bbl has. But it also has the HP exhaust manifolds and dual exhaust, from the factory.

AND . . . do not forget the very possible need for a 4bbl air cleaner base or an aftermarket air cleaner assy. Just watch the height of the new air cleaner/carb/manifold combination. You can reference the top of the air cleaner to the top edge of the cowl, as it now sits, for example. Then, for good measure, close the hood CAREFULLY, for the first time, when everything is installed. IF something seems to be resisting, STOP then and verify what it might be. Better than an extra bulge in the hood's sheet metal.

One other thing, I like to use hardened carb studs rather than the softer silver ones supplied in all of the carb install kits. A bit of lube on the lower threads can ensure they all screw in smoothly and fully. Then use a flat washer under the nuts to hold the carb securely.

Sorry for the length. Lots of little things I've noticed and experienced over the years,
CBODY67

CAR__EDELBROCK_9265_BASE GSKT KIT_009265_v1_1.jpg


CAR__EDELBROCK 9266_CARB BASE GSKT_1970 383 N OEM_009266_v1_1.jpg
 
I used one of the gaskets Willis mentioned on my 1970 Fury 440, factory intake
Open design has worked well with Edelbrock carb AVS2 800 cfm
IMG_20200829_152429 cg.jpg
 
maybe if drive in sub freezing temps but still not 1 hour

.......Don’t block off the heat crossover with that intake gasket. It won’t run very well for the first hour of running the engine. That heat is needed to atomize the fuel.
 
maybe if drive in sub freezing temps but still not 1 hour

.......Don’t block off the heat crossover with that intake gasket. It won’t run very well for the first hour of running the engine. That heat is needed to atomize the fuel.
If he does block them off his next post will be
”why does my engine stumble on acceleration”
 
The kick down rod from the transmission to the intake throttle bracket should be the same, 2bbl or 4bbl, but the intake throttle bracket and rods will be different between 2bbl and 4bbl. You might be able to bend, cut, weld and modify the throttle bracket to work, but the mounting point for the throttle cable will most likely to too far back, and the transmission kick down rod from carb to bracket will most likely be either to short, or the mounting point on the bracket will be located to far back.

So I would recommend looking for a complete throttle kick down assembly from a 44bl intake manifold.

This is what you probably need...

Mopar 383 400 4BRL Passing Gear Kick Down Linkage Set B E Body Coronet Charger | eBay
 
To me . . .
Intake manifold choice is good. The plugs to block of the not-needed EGR should be in the install kit with the manifold. The noted valley pan gasket kit is good, too. The paper gaskets are needed to keep the beads on the metal gasket from putting a pattern on the softer aluminum intake's gasket surfaces. I would fill the beaded indentions on the metal gasket with black, high-heat silicon sealer and then put a skin coat of the same sealer on the paper items before installation, letting it all cure for a day or so prior to installation. This makes, from my experience, a very tight seal between the manifold and cyl heads.

I'm not sure of the allure of the Brawler carb, other than price. They do have a lot of adjustability with their removeable/changeable air fleeds in the upper throttle bore area, BUT you might get into some trouble by changing them without some knowledge of what they do and why, possibly.

If price is an issue, possibly the Summit-branded 4bbls (which are old Ford design carbs) with annular discharge primary venturis can be the "hot trick". Or an Edelbrock AVS2 with the same style of annular discharge primary venturis.

A possibly emerging issue with the Holley 4150/4160 and spreadbore 4175 carbs is that the accel pump housing is logically located on the bottom of the primary float bowl. This ensures the pump easily refills after each pump shot discharge. BUT being that it's at the bottom of the float bowl, should it ever start to seep, it can empty the float bowl onto the intake manifold. Which might cause other things than just a discoloration of the aluminum where the fuel drops fall. Holley does make ethanol-resistant pump diaphrams now.

The phenolic spacer might seem to be a good idea, but . . . it might not really be any better than the stock OEM base gasket used back then. Same thickness, but the phenolic item does not have any bushings in the stud holes to keep from uneven-torquing the hold down nuts. I learned that lesson when I cracked the baseplate on a Carter AVS 4732S on my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl back in about 1976. I was seeking to help the hot re-start issue with a popular base gasket insulator stack of alunimum plates and softer gaskets. That last little bit of snugging-down did it. OUCH! New carb time. And, no significant difference in the hot re-start issue either! From then on out, nothing but Chrysler OEM base gaskets with NO issues.

Other things? The necessary throttle linkage bracket from Holley or Edelbrock, to bolt to the existing lever on the carb. Plus some wiring and OEM-spec connectors/terminals to power the electric choke from a keyed power source. You can run the wire across the edge of the cowl with the existing harness, then have it make a lh turn with that harness, straight down the rh valve cover and to the carb. With a bit of finesse and such, it will be hidden to many eyes. You can re-use the existing carb stud for the throttle/kickdown/cruise control linkage you now have.

You MIGHT need to readjust the existing throttle cable in its mount at the rear of the intake manifold. With the new carb installed, just loosen the adjusting nut and slide the cable forward in that mounting. Hopefully there is enough adjustment for that to happen. Similarly, the kickdown rod will need to be slid forward, too. Hopefully, you can slide the front section forward to get what you need. There might be a gauge hole in the kickdown bellcrank to put a small screwdriver into so you can tell if you will need any extra "extenders" in that area?

No mention of the engine and your intended use, yet? Presuming with the 383 2bbl, it has the normal 2.76 rear axle ratio and P225/75R-15 tires? Same OEM cam? Single exhaust?

Now, for some reality issues. The primary side of any 600cfm 4bbl will be the same as the Carter or similar 2bbl that is now on the car. 1.56" throttle bores. Which means that you might not feel anything special until after about 3000rpm. How much time do you spend in those higher rpm levels? General drive-around things might feel a bit crisper in throttle response due to the added refinements in venturi booster/accelerator pump discharge nozzle designs since the later 1960s (when the carb was designed) and fuel mpg might slightly improve on the highway due to a possibly leaner calibration. But that is to be seen when it might happen.

I don't recall @saforwardlook recommending a looser torque converter per se, BTAIM. To me, the term "looser torque converter" can mean many things. Chrysler had "low stall" and "high stall" designations for OEM torque converters, with the "high stall" designation usually on the 10.75" diameter converters (which also took 1 qt less to refill the transmision they were installed on). My '70 Monaco 383 4bbl has such a converter on it from the factory. But getting a "higher stall" converter in the aftermarket can seem to be a big crapshoot.

The "low stall" converter with (suspected) 2.76 rear gears is a good combination for highway driving. At normal highway speeds (like 55mph+) the converter is locked-up as you would expect it to be. But that tightness can also put a little damper on off-line acceleration, which is one of the compromises in torque converter design, by observation. With 3.23s, the looser converter can work well as by the time you get to 60mph, the converter on the verge of being locked-up as expected.

In these torque converters, when I mean "locked-up" I mean that there is very little slippage in them. Whereas in the later "lock-up" torque converters, a mechanical clutch in the converter applies and "locks-up" the two halves of the converter for better fuel econony. I wanted to mention that distinction.

On my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl, 3.23s w/P225/75R-15 tires, which makes 25mph/1000 engine rpm, I noticed that at 62mph, the throttle response (think one of those famous "hairs') became very "tight". One hair's more throttle was added, speed immediately increased. At 60mph and lower in 3rd, throttle response was a bit more soggy, by comparison. Yet on our '66 Newport 383 2bbl 2.76 car, throttle response was linear at all speeds. No "soggy below __ mph" or "tighter above ___ mph" situation. With the 2bbl having the 11.75" torque converter. Key thing is that by the time you get to 60mph, the converter needs to be locked-up of you can lose fuel economy, by observation. Unless you take notice of this and drive with a steadier throttle foot, from my experiences. Another story.

For reference, the 383 in my '70 Monaco has the same 256/260 cam as your 383 2bbl has. But it also has the HP exhaust manifolds and dual exhaust, from the factory.

AND . . . do not forget the very possible need for a 4bbl air cleaner base or an aftermarket air cleaner assy. Just watch the height of the new air cleaner/carb/manifold combination. You can reference the top of the air cleaner to the top edge of the cowl, as it now sits, for example. Then, for good measure, close the hood CAREFULLY, for the first time, when everything is installed. IF something seems to be resisting, STOP then and verify what it might be. Better than an extra bulge in the hood's sheet metal.

One other thing, I like to use hardened carb studs rather than the softer silver ones supplied in all of the carb install kits. A bit of lube on the lower threads can ensure they all screw in smoothly and fully. Then use a flat washer under the nuts to hold the carb securely.

Sorry for the length. Lots of little things I've noticed and experienced over the years,
CBODY67

View attachment 560255

View attachment 560257
Wow, thank you for the great write up. It's a stock 383, with manifolds & dual 2,5in exhaust.
I am looking for more power up top (in the rare cases i stomp on the pedal), but streetability down low. In other words, same as now with 2bbl on usual cruises, with more power when revving the car.

@ highway speeds, say up to 65mph, i now get 16,9 MPG with full load. I would like the new setup to be close to this. Perfomance is not top priority.

@thrashingcows thanks for the link for the linkage setup

Lastly, i don't plan on changing the gears in the diff, they are stock 2,76 , but i was thinking about a higher stall (i have the 727 HD factory trans) - which would you recommend ?
 
Don’t put a 2500 converter with 2.76 gears. You will spendm most of the time below stall speed, so wasting fuel and building heat in the trans.
 
Best bang for the buck and fairly easy to do would be to swap in a set of 3.23 gears for the differential....great gear set that gives you good acceleration and good hwy speed cruising as well.

I had 3.23's in my T/C wagon then thought the 2.76 would help with MPG and better hwy cruising...I did not like them at all, the part throttle kick down was constantly jumping up/down and on the hills the car would not hold it's speed. Put the 3.23's back in and all is well again.
 
Don’t put a 2500 converter with 2.76 gears. You will spendm most of the time below stall speed, so wasting fuel and building heat in the trans.
I had a 1972 Fury III, 360/727/2.76 gears. I had the trans down. Later I wished I had replaced the stall converter with higher stall so I could get a little better acceleration. Is there a stall above factory stall speed that will work with 2.76 gears?
 
Just dump the 2.76 gears, 2.94 is a big improvement,
I had a 1972 Fury III, 360/727/2.76 gears. I had the trans down. Later I wished I had replaced the stall converter with higher stall so I could get a little better acceleration. Is there a stall above factory stall speed that will work with 2.76 gears?
 
Just dump the 2.76 gears, 2.94 is a big improvement,
Too late. I sold the car to an FCBO member in Pennsylvania.
1970 Fury convertible has 440/727 3.23 8 3/4 742 case sure-grip. Excellent acceleration and highway manners.
1971 SF GT, unknown gear set. May be a car where I can take your advice. I'll probably go with 3.23 sure grip.

What gears are you running?
 
I like 2.94 with short tires, or 3.23 with tall tires. Notice wagons and trailer towing pkg commonly came with 3.23 so they have some torque to haul the weight.

The 2.76 just kills the torque. Oh they are fine at 80 mph, once you get there, but from a stop or passing on a 2 lane road at 50 isn’t so good.

gear ratio is torque multiplication, not just RPM in high gear.
 
Last edited:
2.76 does kill torque, especially with a factory torque converter.
Would it be safe to increase stall speed with 2.94?
 
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