Best fan for rowdy 383

[Newport Oregon]

Hello, this is my first post. I’m hoping someone can help!

My 66 Newport has a built 383. Flat-top pistons, cam, etc. Shift kit. 3:55 gears.

Never could keep this car cool in traffic with the rebuilt motor. Ran the original 4 blade fan for a long time. I did put a 26” radiator in with a shroud. I also had it rebuilt as a 4-core. A friend of mine went through the timing, and checked water flow, and installed an electric fan last year. I HATE the fans. The noise kills all the joy of driving it and then it kills my battery.

My friend who did the fans is convinced that it’s a design problem of my hood not venting heat, but I have a hard time believing that. I do plan to remove my headers and instal some HP manifolds. I hope that helps with my heat-soaked starts.

One person told me to get a 7 blade clutch fan. Is there any aftermarket parts that anyone would recommend? Or any original fan blades available? My car isn’t stock anymore, but I don’t at all care for the look of the electric fans. Max HP is no longer my concern, but I would like to keep some as a lot of $$$ has been spent in the last 8 years.

The takeaway is that I wish I was building this car now, in my mid-30’s, rather than I did in my mid-20’s! I would have kept it simple.

 

[detmatt]

What temperature thermostat are you running? Is the shroud for an 18 or 19” fan? Is the hood to cowl seal still attached to the hood?

 

[CBODY67]

The factory a/c cars had a 7-blade fan attached to a fan clutch, plus the matching fan shroud. Plus a "yoke seal" that was a piece of rubber that had a flap which was attached to the bottom of the hood to plug the gap between the hood and the top of the core support/radiator area, to ensure that all air went through the radiator and not around it on the top side of things.

Headers can tend to put more heat under the hood as there is more exterior surface area on them than on the normal cast iron exhaut manifolds. Some people will wrap the header tubes with a ThermoTec heat insulator material to decrease underhood heat, keeping it in the pipes rather than radiating into the air, at that point. There are now kits to do this with. When done, it can look quite nice, although it might take some time to do.

The factory a/c Chryslers had the 26" 3-core copper radiator, 7-blade fan and fan clutch, fan shround, and yoke seal. Our then-newer '66 Newport 383 2bbl factory a/c car never had any overheat issues. My then-mentors who knew Chryslers said that as long as the cooling system was in good condition, they never did overheat. Even in the 100 degree F Texas summers. My experiences with out car tended to bear that out! As other similar GM cars did have heat issues in the same weather, by observation. As a side note, the factory a/c systems would cool well as long as they had most of their a/c charge, only getting a few degrees warmer when it needed 1 lb of freon in it. These were my experiences and observations for the '66 Chryslers, my '70 Monaco Brougham 383 4bbl, and others like them that I knew of.

Hot soak re-start was always a bit longer than a similar GM car, though. Just part of the breed, it seems. It does help to follow the Chrysler recommendations (in the owner's manual) to use about 2/3 travel of the accel pedal for these hot re-start issues as it clears the intake system of the hot soak fuel/air mixture quicker. Then, as soon as it starts, release the pedal . . . which can be a learned art, fwiw.

Once, I did venture off into seeking to keep things cooler on the '66. I got a stainless steel Flex-A-Lite aluminum flex fan and spacer to replace the factory fan and fan clutch. After getting the correct spacer length, the fan worked well, but even with the factory 2.76 rear axle, it sounded like an airplace under the hood at 60mph+ on the freeway. The fan was doing its job of moving air, but was making more noise to do it. ONE advantage was that even in 90+ Texas summers, after an hour freeway drive, I could grab the factory air cleaner and remove it from the carb, without any concerns of the air cleaner being too hot to handle easily. It was THAT cool. But no fuel economy advantage from all of that additional :uckily "pull" of air through the radiator, plus the noise, led me to spend less money on a new fan clutch and put everything back to stock (and quietness!). Luckily, I was able to return the flex fan and related items to the speed shop where I got them.

For the after-hot re-start issues, ensure that the ignition timing is where it needs to be for your engine. Ensure that the ignition system is good and will start the engine quickly when the engine had not been in a hot soak situation. This can also mean good spark plugs which fire-off as quick as possible due to their advance gap designs (as in the fine-wire Iridium plugs or NGK V-Power plugs, by observation). And OEM-style thick carb base gasket, which is also an insulator gasket, is the only style I have ever used. Ensure that the air cleaner does not shroud air flow about the carb, as the factory air cleaners had more air space between their bases than non-Chrysler factory air cleaners usually did not.

All aftermarket electric fans are not apparently created equal. The fans with an OEM-shape blades will probably the the quietest and more efficient, I suspect. Even so, they probably need to be modulated correctly and be supplied by an upgraded charging system (alternator and battery size) for best results. Might even consider adding a timer into the mix? FWIW

I realize that in our modern world of electronic fuel injection and such, we expect a start within about 2 engine revolutions in all weather conditions. Similar CAN be had with a carb, which is correctly adjusted and tinkered with, plus the "quick fire" spark plugs and tweaking the Chrysler-recommended starting procedure. Might not be exactly the same, but better than what we had back when the cars were newer.

Sorry for the length. Hope this might help explain some things and hopefully help make things better than the currently might be.

Just my experiences, observations, and some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Newport Oregon]

What temperature thermostat are you running? Is the shroud for an 18 or 19” fan? Is the hood to cowl seal still attached to the hood?

Currently has a 160 high-flow thermostat. I was running a 180 for a long time, but after the last attempt to find the issue, changed it. I believe my shroud measures 20”. Does that make it a 19”?

 

[CBODY67]

We didn't know what a high-flow thermostat was back then, just the 160 degree F thermostat.

The thermostat is a calibrated and variable restriction. In some cases, the faster flow can cause more inside-the-block turbulance as the coolant flows around all of the obstacles it has in its path, which can further decrease the heat absorption of the engine heat by the coolant. I believe yo've proven that the lower opening temp has not worked, in this case.

One time, I needed a water pump for my '77 Camaro. I went to a good auto supply store (who had a lifetime replacement warranty on its water pumps). I'd seen the weekend morning auto shows who touted the "higher flow" items (their advertisers) as being better, so I noticed that the pump we pulled from the shelf had larger passages than the factory-casting pump did, so that looked good. The pump lasted a long time, but the temp gauge consistently registered on needle-width higher on the gauge. More apparent flow from a bit larger and cleaner internal passages? When that pump started to leak years later, I got a reman factory-casting pump and the temp gauge needle went back to where it used to be. Proving to me that the "high flow is better" theory might not work as claimed, in all cases.

If you desire more heat absorption of engine heat by the coolant, then an additive which decreases the surface tension of the water so it can become more intimate with the metal surfaces inside of the engine block and heads, then something like "Water Wetter" might work? I like that theory better, but the speed with which the coolant moves can still be an issue.

There seem to be some little "ins and outs" of Chrysler coolant system design. One is that the water pump pulley diameter varies between a/c and non-a/c cars, as does the number of vanes in the water pump. It all needs to be a matched set, for best results.

Just my experiences and observations.
CBODY67

 

[Newport Oregon]

The factory a/c cars had a 7-blade fan attached to a fan clutch, plus the matching fan shroud. Plus a "yoke seal" that was a piece of rubber that had a flap which was attached to the bottom of the hood to plug the gap between the hood and the top of the core support/radiator area, to ensure that all air went through the radiator and not around it on the top side of things.

Headers can tend to put more heat under the hood as there is more exterior surface area on them than on the normal cast iron exhaut manifolds. Some people will wrap the header tubes with a ThermoTec heat insulator material to decrease underhood heat, keeping it in the pipes rather than radiating into the air, at that point. There are now kits to do this with. When done, it can look quite nice, although it might take some time to do.

The factory a/c Chryslers had the 26" 3-core copper radiator, 7-blade fan and fan clutch, fan shround, and yoke seal. Our then-newer '66 Newport 383 2bbl factory a/c car never had any overheat issues. My then-mentors who knew Chryslers said that as long as the cooling system was in good condition, they never did overheat. Even in the 100 degree F Texas summers. My experiences with out car tended to bear that out! As other similar GM cars did have heat issues in the same weather, by observation. As a side note, the factory a/c systems would cool well as long as they had most of their a/c charge, only getting a few degrees warmer when it needed 1 lb of freon in it. These were my experiences and observations for the '66 Chryslers, my '70 Monaco Brougham 383 4bbl, and others like them that I knew of.

Hot soak re-start was always a bit longer than a similar GM car, though. Just part of the breed, it seems. It does help to follow the Chrysler recommendations (in the owner's manual) to use about 2/3 travel of the accel pedal for these hot re-start issues as it clears the intake system of the hot soak fuel/air mixture quicker. Then, as soon as it starts, release the pedal . . . which can be a learned art, fwiw.

Once, I did venture off into seeking to keep things cooler on the '66. I got a stainless steel Flex-A-Lite aluminum flex fan and spacer to replace the factory fan and fan clutch. After getting the correct spacer length, the fan worked well, but even with the factory 2.76 rear axle, it sounded like an airplace under the hood at 60mph+ on the freeway. The fan was doing its job of moving air, but was making more noise to do it. ONE advantage was that even in 90+ Texas summers, after an hour freeway drive, I could grab the factory air cleaner and remove it from the carb, without any concerns of the air cleaner being too hot to handle easily. It was THAT cool. But no fuel economy advantage from all of that additional :uckily "pull" of air through the radiator, plus the noise, led me to spend less money on a new fan clutch and put everything back to stock (and quietness!). Luckily, I was able to return the flex fan and related items to the speed shop where I got them.

For the after-hot re-start issues, ensure that the ignition timing is where it needs to be for your engine. Ensure that the ignition system is good and will start the engine quickly when the engine had not been in a hot soak situation. This can also mean good spark plugs which fire-off as quick as possible due to their advance gap designs (as in the fine-wire Iridium plugs or NGK V-Power plugs, by observation). And OEM-style thick carb base gasket, which is also an insulator gasket, is the only style I have ever used. Ensure that the air cleaner does not shroud air flow about the carb, as the factory air cleaners had more air space between their bases than non-Chrysler factory air cleaners usually did not.

All aftermarket electric fans are not apparently created equal. The fans with an OEM-shape blades will probably the the quietest and more efficient, I suspect. Even so, they probably need to be modulated correctly and be supplied by an upgraded charging system (alternator and battery size) for best results. Might even consider adding a timer into the mix? FWIW

I realize that in our modern world of electronic fuel injection and such, we expect a start within about 2 engine revolutions in all weather conditions. Similar CAN be had with a carb, which is correctly adjusted and tinkered with, plus the "quick fire" spark plugs and tweaking the Chrysler-recommended starting procedure. Might not be exactly the same, but better than what we had back when the cars were newer.

Sorry for the length. Hope this might help explain some things and hopefully help make things better than the currently might be.

Just my experiences, observations, and some thoughts,
CBODY67

Thank you so much for your reply and info!
-It isn’t an A/C car. Was a stock 2BBL. Now an Edelbrock. I do believe my car still has the rubber strip on the hood. I wrapped my full-tube headers from the get-go. I did buy some HP manifolds recently (I couldn’t find a set in the time I needed years ago when I was doing the rebuild). I’m thinking I’ll ceramic coat them.

I did learn the pedal trick on hot start up! It helped, but wasn’t my favorite thing to do.

Alternator was upgraded. Battery is old and needs replaced but I’m still blaming these electric fans. These fans move a ton of air (making a ton of noise). We were having trouble with the controllers burning out. There’s a gross amount of wiring and relays for these fans under the hood. They gotta go!!

I haven’t upgraded the plugs, though I have changed them and checked them many times. Perhaps I’ll upgrade them on the next tune-up?

I’d like to try a clutch fan but I don’t know what fan to buy or from where? Seems that aftermarket clutches are easy to find, but not the blade. Do I need to find an original? I was reading about 2863216 & 2863215. They don’t seem widely available right now and hence are rather expensive. I wish there was a comparable aftermarket one I could try.

 

[Newport Oregon]

We didn't know what a high-flow thermostat was back then, just the 160 degree F thermostat.

The thermostat is a calibrated and variable restriction. In some cases, the faster flow can cause more inside-the-block turbulance as the coolant flows around all of the obstacles it has in its path, which can further decrease the heat absorption of the engine heat by the coolant. I believe yo've proven that the lower opening temp has not worked, in this case.

One time, I needed a water pump for my '77 Camaro. I went to a good auto supply store (who had a lifetime replacement warranty on its water pumps). I'd seen the weekend morning auto shows who touted the "higher flow" items (their advertisers) as being better, so I noticed that the pump we pulled from the shelf had larger passages than the factory-casting pump did, so that looked good. The pump lasted a long time, but the temp gauge consistently registered on needle-width higher on the gauge. More apparent flow from a bit larger and cleaner internal passages? When that pump started to leak years later, I got a reman factory-casting pump and the temp gauge needle went back to where it used to be. Proving to me that the "high flow is better" theory might not work as claimed, in all cases.

If you desire more heat absorption of engine heat by the coolant, then an additive which decreases the surface tension of the water so it can become more intimate with the metal surfaces inside of the engine block and heads, then something like "Water Wetter" might work? I like that theory better, but the speed with which the coolant moves can still be an issue.

There seem to be some little "ins and outs" of Chrysler coolant system design. One is that the water pump pulley diameter varies between a/c and non-a/c cars, as does the number of vanes in the water pump. It all needs to be a matched set, for best results.

Just my experiences and observations.
CBODY67

Hmm...aluminum “race housings” for the water pump and thermostat were also installed. So I suppose it’s a matched set?! I never considered your theory though. We were simply trying to rule out water flow as the issue.

Still think I’ll try another mechanical fan set up first. Then manifolds.

-Man, I wish I knew better when I was a little younger and wouldn’t have been persuaded to hotrod my giant cruiser. A fresh motor with a 4BBL and exhaust would have been plenty! Oh well...

 

[detmatt]

Might put the 180 stat back in it. The coolant needs to spend time in the rad in order for it to cool the engine.
I have extra fans.

 

[Newport Oregon]

Might put the 180 stat back in it. The coolant needs to spend time in the rad in order for it to cool the engine.
I have extra fans.

Certainly worth a shot.

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

Headers have NOTHING to do with high coolant temps. Underhood temps, yes, to a certain extent. But that doesn't translate to coolant temps that are trying to remove heat from 600* combustion chambers.

Try this OEM-style kit from Tony D'Agostino. https://www.tonysparts.com/ Quiet and effective. My TNT (with 10.5 pistons) never gets above 190 in Florida heat. And it looks perfect.

You'll need the correct spacer (from somewhere) so the fan is halfway in/out of the shroud.

 

[CBODY67]

When Mopar Perf was selling that kit initially, it was great price deal. Factory OEM items, which usually meant "better than the aftermarket". The "spacer" can be avoided with a fan clutch of the correct shaft length, by observation, which kind of negates the price advantage of the kit. BUT if the shaft length you need matches what's in the kit, then it's "a deal".

As for the "race" and "aluminum water pump housing" in the same sentence. A lighter-weight item which might equate to faster 1/4 or 1/8 mile drag racing trap speeds and lower ets? No more, no less.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[413]

180 T-stat won’t make it run cooler than it is now. I’m not a fan of “high flow” anything in the cooling system. It needs to flow slower to transfer heat. So I like a regular 160 T-stat.

how is the air fuel mixture? If it is lean it will run hot.
Try using ethanol free fuel it will richen your air fuel mixture and help with hot starts. Get most or all of the ethanol gas out first. Won’t help to miss it with 1/4 tank of alcohol.

I had a stock 440 with a stock carter rebuilt and it was pretty, but it ran hot and nothing couldn’t fix it. Couldn’t go far on the freeway and it was minumim 210 and up to boiling over when stopped. Finally swapped to a know good carb From another car for testing and the car was excellent, never got hot again.

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

When Mopar Perf was selling that kit initially, it was great price deal. Factory OEM items, which usually meant "better than the aftermarket". The "spacer" can be avoided with a fan clutch of the correct shaft length, by observation, which kind of negates the price advantage of the kit. BUT if the shaft length you need matches what's in the kit, then it's "a deal".

Agreed, I did not need a spacer because the setup is correct for an AC car. I mentioned the spacing into the shroud in case someone is using a clutch/fan in different application such as a non-AC car/whatever.

The kit is pricey, but I couldn't click my mouse fast enough to buy it and get rid of the terribly noisy aftermarket, 70's style aluminum Flex Fan that the PO put on the car some 30 years ago. And it didn't cool nearly as well as Tony's kit. And did I mention that it sounded like a friggin' jet engine even at idle?

 

[Newport Oregon]

180 T-stat won’t make it run cooler than it is now. I’m not a fan of “high flow” anything in the cooling system. It needs to flow slower to transfer heat. So I like a regular 160 T-stat.

how is the air fuel mixture? If it is lean it will run hot.
Try using ethanol free fuel it will richen your air fuel mixture and help with hot starts. Get most or all of the ethanol gas out first. Won’t help to miss it with 1/4 tank of alcohol.

I had a stock 440 with a stock carter rebuilt and it was pretty, but it ran hot and nothing couldn’t fix it. Couldn’t go far on the freeway and it was minumim 210 and up to boiling over when stopped. Finally swapped to a know good carb From another car for testing and the car was excellent, never got hot again.

Carb should be good. Edelbrock 1406 which I initially chose because I read that it’s essentially an electric choke AFB. My friend was extremely careful to not run it lean because of the hypereutectic pistons. Carb has been jetted and checked many times. I have friends that are in love with the newer Edelbrock AVS2, but on very different applications. Also watching my spending on this money pit right now!

180 T-stat won’t make it run cooler than it is now. I’m not a fan of “high flow” anything in the cooling system. It needs to flow slower to transfer heat. So I like a regular 160 T-stat.

how is the air fuel mixture? If it is lean it will run hot.
Try using ethanol free fuel it will richen your air fuel mixture and help with hot starts. Get most or all of the ethanol gas out first. Won’t help to miss it with 1/4 tank of alcohol.

I had a stock 440 with a stock carter rebuilt and it was pretty, but it ran hot and nothing couldn’t fix it. Couldn’t go far on the freeway and it was minumim 210 and up to boiling over when stopped. Finally swapped to a know good carb From another car for testing and the car was excellent, never got hot again.

 

[Newport Oregon]

Agreed, I did not need a spacer because the setup is correct for an AC car. I mentioned the spacing into the shroud in case someone is using a clutch/fan in different application such as a non-AC car/whatever.

The kit is pricey, but I couldn't click my mouse fast enough to buy it and get rid of the terribly noisy aftermarket, 70's style aluminum Flex Fan that the PO put on the car some 30 years ago. And it didn't cool nearly as well as Tony's kit. And did I mention that it sounded like a friggin' jet engine even at idle?

View attachment 466020

View attachment 466021

For sure. I’m not at interested in a flex fan. I can even stand the noise of these electric fans. The kit is pretty high priced. Looks great! But also seems like a restoration part (which my car doesn’t deserve). I’m tempted to try some Hayden clutches for the affordability, but don’t know what fan blade I should buy? I also hope I get lucky on the spacer!
-I shoulda kept the car simple! Oops!

 

[Newport Oregon]

Headers have NOTHING to do with high coolant temps. Underhood temps, yes, to a certain extent. But that doesn't translate to coolant temps that are trying to remove heat from 600* combustion chambers.

Try this OEM-style kit from Tony D'Agostino. https://www.tonysparts.com/ Quiet and effective. My TNT (with 10.5 pistons) never gets above 190 in Florida heat. And it looks perfect.

You'll need the correct spacer (from somewhere) so the fan is halfway in/out of the shroud.

View attachment 465980

Good to know on the header heat. To be completely honest, my biggest gripe on the headers is ground clearance. And I just think HP manifolds are very nice looking, even though they have their own set of obstacles (changing plugs, cooking valve cover gaskets, and so on).

 

[detmatt]

The first 2 are 18” from probably ‘67 Imps, the middle one is a 19” from I don’t know what and the last 2 are oem #216 pieces but they’re not cheap. The prices on the cardboard aren’t for these fans.

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

.....#216 pieces but they’re not cheap.

Which is why I didn't think twice about $360 for brand new, shiny and straight stuff from Tony.

 

[Trace 300 Hurst]

I just think HP manifolds are very nice looking, even though they have their own set of obstacles.

Yeah, the HP manifolds are cool looking for sure, but they don't make the power that headers do, if that's important to the owner. But the Max Wedge manifolds make almost as much power as headers:

On the other hand, I think my Hookers look kinda nice, and are a surprise to people when I open the hood to my "hot-rodded" land barge.

 

[Newport Oregon]

Yeah, the HP manifolds are cool looking for sure, but they don't make the power that headers do, if that's important to the owner. But the Max Wedge manifolds make almost as much power as headers:

On the other hand, I think my Hookers look kinda nice, and are a surprise to people when I open the hood to my "hot-rodded" land barge.
View attachment 466036