Can you help a Small block Chevy guy understand a 1962 Chrysler 413 with cross-ram manifold? - compression and pump gas?

[Treozen]

Hello folks -

I've owned dozens of classic cars over the decades, but never a Chrysler, or any Mopar of any flavor. Its a long story as to why, but I am considering a 1961 Newport, and it has a 1962 413 engine with cross-ram intake, dual carburetors...and....I have no idea what I'm even looking at, except the it looks kinda cool ;-). I have a few questions, and hop you can educate me:

1) Someone has suggested to me that this engine, with 10:1 compression, will not run well on pump gas. I know that the street-manners of a car and its tolerance for pump gas depends on more than just the engine numbers - and even if it HAD 10:1 compression, I assume that was back in 1962......might have changed a bit since then. but still, I have no interest in finding the needle in the haystack gas station with exotic gas - 92 octane is available everywhere here, and that's what I run in everything I have - from a 2024 Subaru to a '68 455, to a 62 Jaguar XK. Does the cross-ram 413 really needs something special, or can I run 92 octane pump gas?

2) I have experience tuning dual carbs - its....erm... annoying...and usually I'm working on a British SU carb, like the Jaguars. That said, its nice when everything is synchronized... what sort of trouble / issues etc can I expect with the cross-ram set-up? The carbs are newer edlebrock, and I am familiar with them, just not two of them on some crazy manifold ;-) . I don't mind tinkering, but I really don't want to ge wrapped up in a carb sync nightmare that never runs properly.

3) Is there anything you think an innocent Chevy guy ought to know about a '62 413 before deciding to own one? I've worked on classic Chevys, Fords, Mercedes, Jaguar and even briefly a Buick nailhead, but I've never turned a wrench on a Chrysler.

Thanks all - appreciated.

 

[Big_John]

Welcome to the forum!

For question 1, the 413 will be OK on 92 octane. It may ping once in a while, but be a little conservative with the timing and you'll be fine. My '65 413 runs fine on it.

For question 2, I'm going to suggest looking at the 300 Letter car club pages for some tech. A lot of those guys run the cross ram engines. TECH PAGE

Question 3 Chrysler products are going to give you more challenges in finding parts then your GM and sometimes cost a bit more... But if you've had other cars, you probably already know that. Grab a factory service manual and parts manual from MyMopar Remember left side wheels have left hand thread lug nuts and the distributor in your 413 turns counterclockwise and you'll be all set.

 

[CBODY67]

Welcome!

As to the cross-ram 2x4 intake system, there might be some intricacies in getting the initial set-up done, but I suspect much of that has been done and probably is pretty close.

92 Pump Octane fuel is pretty close to the 97 Research Octane fuels the 413s were calibrated for when they were introduced. As mentioned, if you get pinging, knock the timing back about 2 degrees to minimize it. If you might find some 93 Pump Octane fuel, so much the better.

The 413 cross-ram intakes only came on 300 Letter Cars, so the engine and such was transplanted into the Newport, most likely. If everything is there, there are lots of expensive pieces you already have, which is good. There were also some versions from the factory for Plymouths and Dodges, back then.

The main advantage of that induction system was an increase in low-to-mid-range torque. Which was important in "two-lane blacktop" passing situations.

Although www.mymopar.com now has a good bit of downloads, you might also look at www.jholst.net as that website is oriented toward the 300 Letter cars the engine came from. Lots of factory information in there, plus parts books and service information from 1955-1965 Chryslers.

The engine should have a factory dual-point distributor with a cast iron body, as I recall. Specific point sets and a dwell-setting procedure with a few more steps than normal. Set the dwell first and then adjust the timing, in that order.

Not too long ago, YouTuber Nick's Garage did a dyno test of a 413 cross-ram V-8. Actually a few videos on the car it was in and the engine itself. You might check them out.

Chryslers were a different breed back then with some quirks and idiosyncrasies from other brands. But many of those differences are what we like about them as their engineering was usually done to a higher level of execution from what Ford would do or GM would pay for, by observation. Neat vehicles, to me.

Welcome and Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Treozen]

Welcome to the forum!

For question 1, the 413 will be OK on 92 octane. It may ping once in a while, but be a little conservative with the timing and you'll be fine. My '65 413 runs fine on it.

For question 2, I'm going to suggest looking at the 300 Letter car club pages for some tech. A lot of those guys run the cross ram engines. TECH PAGE

Question 3 Chrysler products are going to give you more challenges in finding parts then your GM and sometimes cost a bit more... But if you've had other cars, you probably already know that. Grab a factory service manual and parts manual from MyMopar Remember left side wheels have left hand thread lug nuts and the distributor in your 413 turns counterclockwise and you'll be all set.

Welcome!

As to the cross-ram 2x4 intake system, there might be some intricacies in getting the initial set-up done, but I suspect much of that has been done and probably is pretty close.

92 Pump Octane fuel is pretty close to the 97 Research Octane fuels the 413s were calibrated for when they were introduced. As mentioned, if you get pinging, knock the timing back about 2 degrees to minimize it. If you might find some 93 Pump Octane fuel, so much the better.

The 413 cross-ram intakes only came on 300 Letter Cars, so the engine and such was transplanted into the Newport, most likely. If everything is there, there are lots of expensive pieces you already have, which is good. There were also some versions from the factory for Plymouths and Dodges, back then.

The main advantage of that induction system was an increase in low-to-mid-range torque. Which was important in "two-lane blacktop" passing situations.

Although www.mymopar.com now has a good bit of downloads, you might also look at www.jholst.net as that website is oriented toward the 300 Letter cars the engine came from. Lots of factory information in there, plus parts books and service information from 1955-1965 Chryslers.

The engine should have a factory dual-point distributor with a cast iron body, as I recall. Specific point sets and a dwell-setting procedure with a few more steps than normal. Set the dwell first and then adjust the timing, in that order.

Not too long ago, YouTuber Nick's Garage did a dyno test of a 413 cross-ram V-8. Actually a few videos on the car it was in and the engine itself. You might check them out.

Chryslers were a different breed back then with some quirks and idiosyncrasies from other brands. But many of those differences are what we like about them as their engineering was usually done to a higher level of execution from what Ford would do or GM would pay for, by observation. Neat vehicles, to me.

Welcome and Enjoy!
CBODY67

Thank you both.

Great to know that 92 octane will probably work just fine. I suppose I could also just keep a case of octane booster in the trunk.

That TECH PAGE is an incredible resource, thanks for the link @Big_John

Yes - the engine was a transplant. - The owner said he was told the engine came from a New Yorker of the "same vintage" which is a little vague, but thanks to the Tech Page, the oil pan matches a '62 300H - so I could assume it was a '62 New Yorker. I suspect the engine and the long ram set up didn't come together from the factory, but the car has other 300 parts and I think the original intent may have been to do a letter car clone - I'm not a huge fan of that, but I am a fan of the 300 grill - so I'll let it slide. I should perhaps also clarify that the intake is the one with the carbs way out to either side...so Long-ram? versus carbs at opposite corners of the motor - cross-ram.

Dual points...."shudder"....I've replaced every points set up with petronix over the years. I guess I could re-learn how to set dwell - my timing light has the read out if I recall.

I will admit that I am a bit wary of moving this direction, so much is different - I mean....how do you even get to the rear plugs with the intake in the way....then there are the dual points, two carbs, etc, etc..... but I also get bored string at a small block.....I just don't want to end up in some well-known cross-ram misery, lol.

 

[CBODY67]

If the engine was out of a NY, it should be a single-point, I suspect. A NY engine would also have hydraulic valve lifters, as the 300 Letter cars with the Ram Intake had mechanicals instead. Might try to get the difficult spark plugs out from beneath, not unlike a fuselage Chrysler 440, for example. Or an early 1970s B-body car.

The difference between the "Long Ram" and "Short Ram" Ram Induction intakes was not that the carburetors were basically over the front wheels, but the length of the division in the runners before they get to the cyl head. Seems like the "Short Ram"s were only about 15" long, with the "Long Ram" being the normal ones which are longer.

There are also some salesperson comparison videos on YouTube for various Chrysler products (and other brands) of the 1950s and 1960s. The ones which are "On The Test Track with the 1957 Chryslers" is quite revealing, as to road performance.

Should be some devoted only to the 300 Letter cars, too. Those are usually salesperson information videos with the Chief Engineer of the 300 Letter cars.

Don't be afraid of Chryslers. To me, they were "Different, but better".

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[413]

The standard Chrysler 300 1960-1961 long ram 413 with 375 HP engines had hydraulic lifters and stamped steel rocker arms.

A dual point can be installed in any engine at any time.

Don't assume the carbs are set up correctly, few of them are, especially aftermarket Edelbrocks.

Plugs can be accessed from below easier than the top.

Just know that 60-62 Chryslers are complicated cars to work on and parts for body and interior are generally hard to find and expensive. Lenses are made in reproduction.

Standard engine parts are available, tune up parts, water, oil, fuel pumps, thermostat, engine gaskets, rings, bearings, etc. Pistons for a 413 are expensive.

 

[Big_John]

Dual points...."shudder"....I've replaced every points set up with petronix over the years. I guess I could re-learn how to set dwell - my timing light has the read out if I recall.

If it's the cast iron Prestolite dual point, it can be converted to the Pertronix unit, but it's pretty good in stock form with the points too. You won't be able to set the dwell with the car running like a GM though. The single point can be converted too for that matter, but don't be surprised if it's already been converted to a Chrysler electronic ignition, which is a good upgrade.

Easy to tell the difference.

Dual point has a black cast iron body.

Single point or Chrysler electronic has an aluminum body.

 

[CBODY67]

It should be noted that both of the distributors shown above are about 1970 vintage items as they have the o-ring lower seal. The earlier models, than them, use a thin stamped-steel beaded gasket under the flange. BOTH types go into the same hole in the block and work interchangeability, just that for the non-o-ring items, the flat gasket is needed to control oil or oil crankcase vapors which might escape from that part of the cyl block.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Samplingman]

I don’t know much about the 413, but if you are talking about the red Newport in PA, that is a beautiful car.

 

[Treozen]

If it's the cast iron Prestolite dual point, it can be converted to the Pertronix unit, but it's pretty good in stock form with the points too. You won't be able to set the dwell with the car running like a GM though. The single point can be converted too for that matter, but don't be surprised if it's already been converted to a Chrysler electronic ignition, which is a good upgrade.

Easy to tell the difference.

Dual point has a black cast iron body.

Single point or Chrysler electronic has an aluminum body.

Looking at pictures, I'd say its the dual point cast iron - looks more brown than black, but when you figure age, etc. Either that or its the dirtiest aluminum I've ever seen.

If I buy the car - expect me to ask about this Chrysler electronic ignition - I like the idea of keeping it Chrysler. I'd also be open to keeping it stock, but points and I don't get a along, and if this thing has twice as many.....we're gonna need a bigger boat.....

 

[SGT FURY]

As far as changing plugs (MOST)original Xram cars have factory original inner fenders that are removable to help assist in access to plugs.
The brake booster is also slightly different.

 

[Treozen]

As far as changing plugs (MOST)original Xram cars have factory original inner fenders that are removable to help assist in access to plugs.
The brake booster is also slightly different.

This car wouldn't have been equipped with the long ram intake from the factory, so I guess we'll see about that. I do have a full-height lift, so getting under the car will be easy enough.

The owner also mentioned that you need to fill the Master Cylinder with a syringe because you can't really get to it? I assumed it was under the floor with an access panel like cars from the '40s, but seems like its something different. Brakes are stock drums, but power assist. If they work well, I'll leave it alone, and if not I guess I'll contemplate discs.

 

[Big_John]

The owner also mentioned that you need to fill the Master Cylinder with a syringe because you can't really get to it? I assumed it was under the floor with an access panel like cars from the '40s, but seems like its something different. Brakes are stock drums, but power assist. If they work well, I'll leave it alone, and if not I guess I'll contemplate discs.

The master will be on the firewall.

This may explain... It's a modification to handle the problem. If you look around his site, you'll find more stuff that may help. dipstick

 

[CBODY67]

Due to the fact that the basic body architecture was designed in the middle 1950s and carried through to 1962 or later, that can explain the heater hose routings, hvac system location, and the access to the master cylinder on those cars. Power brakes made things worse, it appears, with the type and location of the booster. Chrysler never was shy about putting good brakes on their cars, that worked in all kids of weather. GM might have claimed "biggest brakes", as the Chryslers always operated better.

CBODY67

 

[1962 Crown Conv]

A 1962 413 that is stock requires leaded gas. To burn unleaded gas, do a valve job and install hardened exhaust valve seats. The stock valves are already hardened. I use mid-grade gas, and a stock, single point style distributor with a Pertronix solid state kit. I set timing at 10btdc. You can adjust the vacuum advance with a 1/8 Allen wrench inserted into the nipple of the vacuum diaphram to eliminate any pinging.

 

[413]

The long ram brake booster is the same as any other car. The difference is the screw on plate with the hose fitting, it is bent to the center of the car instead of straight.

 

[Treozen]

The master will be on the firewall.

This may explain... It's a modification to handle the problem. If you look around his site, you'll find more stuff that may help. dipstick

Um.....yes, ok that does explain things, and ....what were these people thinking.

 

[57fury440]

As said above, don't expect Chevrolet prices when it comes to buying parts. The long rams are nice. I ran a set in the late sixties, and they work well on heavier cars but run out of steam on higher end. On the heavy Chryslers they are great. I did not find it hard to get the carbs running right and overall, it looks more difficult than it is.

 

[Treozen]

As said above, don't expect Chevrolet prices when it comes to buying parts...

No worries there, among my collection is a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, A MKII Jaguar, and until recently, an E-Type - so when it comes to complicated parts that cost a mint, assuming you can find them in the first place, I've got a bit of experience - but I consider myself a Chevy guy because most of what I have is GM, and that's also what I learned on. I don't necessarily enjoy paying for complex rare bits, but, comes with the territory.

 

[Just Carbs]

My Dad had a 413 long ram about ten years ago. It was resistant to available 93 no-lead.
So, we set about changing a few minor things.
At 6 degrees initial at 600 rpm, it still stayed on the idle circuit and didn't get into the transfer slots. Then we turned our attention to tuning the distributor.
We first delayed the centrifugal advance with lighter weights and stiffer springs, then gave it more total centrifugal advance with longer slots. We settled on 38 total at 3200. The last step was to reduce the vacuum advance at the can to stop the last of the part throttle 3rd gear ping.
It ran very well on 93 after that. We couldn't tell any difference in full throttle power after 3000 rpm between the before and after distributor tune.
The dual points worked great and were good for a lot more miles than we were getting from the single points in the other cars. I wouldn't change them out.
We didn't mess with the carbs other than minor adjusting because they were working fine. And they stayed working fine without messing with them. They weren't any different than any other Chrysler Carter.
That motor made a lot of part throttle power too.