disc brake conversion....stock or aftermarket?

[PM27G0D]

I just finished the Hot Rod Power Tour in my '70 Plymouth Suburban. We did about 1800 miles in a week, and I have a new appreciation for having confidence in brakes. My unrestored 383 wagon has factory power drums already, and I'm considering discs for the front. I have some B and E bodies that all have factory discs and I'd like the brakes on this wagon to give me the same confidence.
I like to keep things "stock" as much as possible, but considering I'm going to probably drive this car on the Tour regularly, my first inclination is to find all the factory disc brake parts so that it ends up just like it came with power discs.
If I go that way, what year and models of C bodies are the disc brake parts the same as a 1970 would have had? And would going the stock route work as well as an aftermarket kit? For this particular car, I am open to compromising some of the pure stock appearance in the interest of safety.
Really looking for some thoughts on this before next year...thanks.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Factory is the way to go. 100%. I've done it on both my Cs and never regretted it. Some are OK with the aftermarket conversions, but others here don't like them.
Search on this site to find the compatible cars for donor parts for your wagon.

 

[Big_John]

It seems like we've seen a lot of threads on here dealing with aftermarket brake kit problems.

Some guys have good luck with them and some don't. I would stick with the factory parts as everyone seems to do OK with them. The problems I read of with factory part conversions are minimal and generally are "operator error".

 

[Boydsdodge]

I find with the aftermarket kits that the brakes are undersized for the vehicle. Of course you can get killer big disc kits, but you require 18" wheels. You also end up with a mixed bag of components. I have a customer with a 383 Cuda that another shop talked him into a Wilwood kit. 10.5"x .80 thick rotors. I showed him the stock 11.75"x 1" rotors I install on cars and the cost, he became pretty upset about the whole deal. I also don't like aluminum hubs on the street, but I live with some pretty bumpy urban roads.

 

[rags]

kind of hard to beat millions of dollars in O.E. research and development on parts that were used very successfully on hundreds of thousands of vehicles and still have new replacement parts available from any parts store. factory conversion's the way to go.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

^^THIS^^

 

[mrfury68]

If I were to upgrade my Fury it would be with a factory set up.

 

[FURYGT]

I have an older Scarebird disc brake conversion on my ‘68 Sport Fury that uses 1970 - 1973 calipers and 1973 rotors. I have a couple of these kits as well as new, old replacement rotors (non-Chinese junk) that I would sell. The kit uses a bracket that is a direct bolt on to your drum brake spindles.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

I have an older Scarebird disc brake conversion on my ‘68 Sport Fury that uses 1970 - 1973 calipers and 1973 rotors. I have a couple of these kits as well as new, old replacement rotors (non-Chinese junk) that I would sell. The kit uses a bracket that is a direct bolt on to your drum brake spindles.

What do you think of the bracket? As well, I seem to recall that a bearing spacer was required to use the 73 rotor on 72 and older spindles. Am I correct, and your thoughts?

These are the two areas where concerns have raised red flags gor some IIRC.

 

[FURYGT]

What do you think of the bracket? As well, I seem to recall that a bearing spacer was required to use the 73 rotor on 72 and older spindles. Am I correct, and your thoughts?

These are the two areas where concerns have raised red flags gor some IIRC.

The bracket is good quality & cad plated. There is a bearing spacer, at least one non-C Body bearing & seal as I recall and I have those parts for the older Scarebird conversion.

 

[CBODY67]

Considering that Wilwood's heritage is in the drag racing realm of things, where light weight and small sizes can be important, Their use of a 10.5" rotor kind of makes sense, which will also allow the use of 14" wheels rather than needing the factory 15" size. They can compensate for the smaller diameter rotor with a more agressive pad friction material, I suspect. Braking performance is about heat absorption (friction between the friction material and what it's rubbing against) and then dissipation of such heat as all of this is happening, so a more robust ventilated rotor has its advantages.

The robustness of the OEM components is what gives them the edge in performance. A smaller diameter "drilled and slotted" solid rotor might dissipate heat better and for longer, but unless somebody has come up with a way to successfully "grind" them rather than "machine" them as they might wear, those rotors become "throw-aways" more than not. Just like a welded aluminum radiator, by observation.

When I first discovered Scarebird years ago, I liked the orientation of using OEM-level components, but as time has evolved, those salvage yard or reman auto supply components have changed as the availability of the components had changed. A problem down the line. Not unlike the availability to get good quality rotors for many USA-brand vehicles as they age. BTAIM

For the total BEST option, OEM with high-quality frictions is the best way to go. Everything has been validated for law enforcement use, as a general rule, and have the largest available performance reserves in normal use, to me.

On the other hand, looking at things "20 years out", the Wilwoods might be a better long-term option. Mainly due to their keeping parts in stock for all of their systems, hopefully. Do we really need the reserve capacity of the OEM systems in our daily-style or limited-use vehicles? Probably not, in reality, but it sure nice to know that such reserves are there if needed.

Considering how Wilwood has expanded their kits to fit many normal vehicles, over the years, I would hope their R & D did testing in trailer towing situations in "the hills of Colorado", or similar. So, when buying such a kit, you might get another set of pads (F & R) and caliper rebuild kits, too. Maybe even a master cyl rebuild kit. THEN, if needed, you'll have them at current costs.

With an OEM kit, getting an extra pair of rotors might be a good idea, too. Rotors which still have enough meat on them, after refinishing, to be another cycle before needing to be cut again.

Same with keeping the existing drum brakes too! Perhaps you could send your existing brake shoes to www.musclecarbrakes.com and get them re-lined with their upgraded friction materials?

I'm not going to universally advocate against Wilwood or Scarebird, as there are probably lots of users out there for whom their products will work just fine. Just that I like OEM better, as long as parts availability is still good, even with a little finagling.

Several side issues to consider. Sorry for the length,
CBODY67

 

[PM27G0D]

Okay, looks like my initial feeling about going with the stock setup is the correct one. My '69 Fury III has the original factory 4 piston calipers and the brakes feel like I want this wagon to feel....awesome. Now, to figure out what year cars to look for in the junkyard for the "right stuff".
I assume the drum brake booster is the same as the disc brake one?

 

[rags]

4 piston might not be so easy. i did my '69 newport originally with a single piston caliper system from a '69 new yorker. key word is "system".

 

[PM27G0D]

4 piston might not be so easy. i did my '69 newport originally with a single piston caliper system from a '69 new yorker. key word is "system".

I wasn't thinking about going with the pre-70 4 piston setup....that stuff is crazy rare and expensive. Besides my '69 Fury that has those, I also have a '68 Roadrunner with them. The 70 style calipers is what I want to go with on the wagon.

 

[rags]

i'll be honest, i have no knowledge of the '69 4 piston system that your fury has so i won't comment further. just seems that with a single piston setup it would be easier to find all the parts for a complete system. maybe there's some interchange, but i'll have to leave that to others.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

The 4 piston system in 69 was the tail end of the Budd system, and the single pistons were introduced that year. Mid year change I guess.

 

[HOT FURY]

LOL probably gonna piss most of the people off that commented on this thread but I put wilwoods on my 66 SF the beginning of this year and with it being the 2nd vehicle I've installed them on I love them. The other vehicle has had them on for 10 years now and still working great. 6 piston front 4 piston rear with 12.19" rotors and still fit 15 aluminum aftermarket wheels for that retro look I wanted with a wheel/tire combo. Didnt waste money with drilled or slotted rotors since you will never notice a difference unless you are building a hardcore road racing vehicle that your'e constantly getting into the brakes hard. Installed both sets myself easily and can stop the lead sled on a dime now but obviously dont have that OE look. As for the other aftermarket kits I've looked at them and many seem kind of sketchy especially if you opt for the rear disc that uses a parking brake for most non wilwood aftermarket kits.

 

[Mr onetwo]

You are going to find that the 1973 pin type calipers are not available anywhere and haven't been for what seems like a couple of years

 

[customsportsman]

I bought my 1969 Fury in February of this year. Up until this purchase, I was a Dodge A-100 van man, and still have a 1970 slant six Dart. This Fury came to me with the Leed power brake booster/ master cylinder and SSBC front brake conversion. Unfortunately, the previous owner tossed the front original drum brake setup. Even after re-working the brake lines (initial shoddy job), a SECOND booster from LEED, I think this system sucks. Even with a replacement booster, the pedal does not return (no friction in the layout to mechanically hold the pedal up). While controlled stopping is nice, panic stops make me.....nervous. I also am concerned about the long-term durability of these lightweight chinesium rotors.
Take my advice...don't waste your money on these systems. Start gathering parts for the OEM system. Personally, I am going to start looking to convert this boat to OEM discs. And if I don't find the OEM discs, I'm going back to drums.

 

[rags]

rear disc that uses a parking brake

i have a lincoln mark 5 rear disc setup in my newport that uses an e-brake built into the caliper. went through a number of calipers trying to get one where the e-brake function would work. zero. finally pulled one apart. the e-brake ratchet mechanism needs to be tack welded into the piston. that fixed them.