electric cars...

[commando1]

Ok this is not completely on the topic but still related if/when the number of electric cars increase significantly. It also gives a slightly different view on the whole conversation.

This is free quote based on my memory from a blog/article from CEO (or some other high level guy) from finnish oil refinery company Neste (our local texaco) that I read some time ago. When refining oil, only 8% of crude oil can be transformed into aviation fuel. The rest goes into gasoline, diesel and all sorts of lubrication mainly used in applications requiring internal combustion engine. I would imagine that we are quite far from electric airplanes and the traveling with an airplane is not going to end anytime soon? Therefore if electric vehicles become significantly more popular, we will have vast amounts of excess fuel available and practically nowhere to use it... or maybe we have, in our gas gusling big blocks

So according to this theory, the fuel prices should drop based on supply and demand which would probably make the combustion engine based cars more appealing again.

Governments are going to start to prohibit the use of fossil fuel vehicles in urban areas.
As demand declines, drilling will be cut back to keep prices up.

You can not win. The New World Order has deemed it so!

 

[amazinblue82]

Ok this is not completely on the topic but still related if/when the number of electric cars increase significantly. It also gives a slightly different view on the whole conversation.

This is free quote based on my memory from a blog/article from CEO (or some other high level guy) from finnish oil refinery company Neste (our local texaco) that I read some time ago. When refining oil, only 8% of crude oil can be transformed into aviation fuel. The rest goes into gasoline, diesel and all sorts of lubrication mainly used in applications requiring internal combustion engine. I would imagine that we are quite far from electric airplanes and the traveling with an airplane is not going to end anytime soon? Therefore if electric vehicles become significantly more popular, we will have vast amounts of excess fuel available and practically nowhere to use it... or maybe we have, in our gas gusling big blocks

So according to this theory, the fuel prices should drop based on supply and demand which would probably make the combustion engine based cars more appealing again.

Seems like its "on topic" to me .. but we'll see what the other folks think

I don't think an electric plane is in our immediate future ... except for very small prop planes, they're too heavy to use batteries (which exacerbates the weight issue) instead of aviation/jet fuel. Jets? I just dont see it at all.

So for earth-bound vehicles, I think this is an interesting question and I think economic theory supports what you read about from Neste CEO

.. BUT all depends on how people (governments, consumers, producers) will really behave given the circumstances they face.

For example, when supply of something increases/demand decreases, prices tends to drop. Excess gasoline supply -- IF demand/supply "curves" structurally shift (meaning refiners PERMANENTLY go out of business vs TEMPORARY cutbacks, and/or consumers PERMANENTLY turn away from gasoline and go to some other fuel) -- will mean gasoline prices PERMANENTLY go down (with a few exceptions -- the diehards/unfortunates who STILL need it will pay ANYTHING for it).

In THIS hypothetical, why would consumers permanently move away from gasoline? Why would a driller/refiner permanently retire capacity? Those are debate questions that make this an interesting topic.

My "two cents'?

Absent running out of OIL, or LAWS that outlaw gasoline, or TECHNOLOGY for an electric that gets 800 miles per charge, recharges in 5 minutes emerges, etc.,, OR finding a proven 100,000 year supply of oil, or an ICE V8 getting 100 mpg and deliver 400 HP, etc, I only see us SLIDING ALONG along demand/supply curves -- i.e., TEMPORARY price movements up/down. No "shifts" of the curves for gasoline.

lets see what the other folks think. again, i liked your question. THanks!

 

[FinFury]

Had to check my facts and I was slightly wrong. You will get almost 10% of jet fuel from one barrel of crude oil. Still it's the guys who set the laws, own the electric car companies and people on top of the income list in general who use and need the airplanes the most which makes the situation kind of intresting.

 

[Dobalovr]

Give me Tesla or better performance 800 mile range and 5 Min recharge and ill drive your electric vehicle all day long and drive my slow 200 mile range gas guzzler on weekends. Im not opposed to new propulsion tech just the blind devotion to an ideal that currently does not have the ability to make my life behind the wheel enjoyable. Electric for electric's sake doesn't wash with me. If FCA made a E version of the Dart I wouldn't drive it either. E version of the Hellcat....bring it on.

 

[amazinblue82]

Had to check my facts and I was slightly wrong. You will get almost 10% of jet fuel from one barrel of crude oil. Still it's the guys who set the laws, own the electric car companies and people on top of the income list in general who use and need the airplanes the most which makes the situation kind of intresting.

neat diagram.

so, 19 of 45 gallons goes to "gasoline", 4 of 45 to jets, the rest for other stuff (plastics, heating oil, on and on) .. hmm. somewhere, somebody has slogged through the economic/statistical analysis to sort this all out along various hypothetical scenarios.

I still would guess gasoline, the biggest individual segment, and what happens to supply/demand for ALL the things (cars, trucks, lawnmowers, chain saws, generators, etc) that use it, will have a big impact on OTHER markets (depending on whats going on in THOSE markets that is separate/similar to what's happening with vehicles).

I'll "retire" from the analysis of all that (leave it to better/smarter folks )... and just go back to the thought that abrupt supply/demand "shifts" for gasoline are UN-likely in my estimation.

Supply and demand for oil and its processed derivatives will evolve over time, with equilibriums achieved in an orderly way .. ABSENT something BIG (war, inventions, laws, etc.) disrupting the OIL markets in a DIS-orderly way.

 

[Stormer]

I love the Teslas.

 

[commando1]

I love the Teslas.

You've come back to annoy the **** out of me.
Nice segue .

 

[CanCritter]

having a hard time seeing a electric car as a viable car up here when its -50 celcius....some of us left up here during the winters do still move about when its that cold and wonder how they ll work the heating issues ect....definitely not a slam dunk up in these parts...

 

[amazinblue82]

Big News in Detroit just now.

GM going all-electric .. within a decade they say. I know they can talk the talk .. we'll see if they walk the walk.

Bye bye internal combustion engines? How long before all our OLD IRON wil be required to be scrapped by law?

Dont laugh .. it could happen.

source: GM promises 20 all-electric cars by 2023

• GM says it "believes in an all-electric future."

• The carmaker will introduce at least 20 new all-electric vehicles by 2023

• Two new EVs will hit the market by 2018, following the Chevy Bolt which was launched in 2016.

• GM will also pursue a hydrogen fuel-cell electric strategy, to address the needs of non-retail customers ​

 

[rapidtrans]

Ever wonder why the rush to electric vehicles? Not plug-in hybrids, which make more sense to me but no, full electric. Think a power grid will be in place in ten years to support all these electric cars?
Is it too cynical of me too imagine the government taking over the power companies to build such an infrastructure. Cause we know they won't get it done in my lifetime! And then they control our usage and movements.
Hell, the Great American Road Trip is one of the few freedoms we have left in this country. It'd take the Grizwalds a month to drive to WallyWorld in an electric Wagon Queen Family Truckster.

 

[Dobalovr]

Is it just me or is there an all out attack on our way of life from snowflakes, PC media and just general headlong plummeting towards some so called Utopian future dictated to us by the alarmist generation spoon fed what to think by their socialist media demogogues. We have become a nation of apologists here in Canada at least. Sorry for everything that was ever done to the environment in our pursuit of progress. Sorry for the mistreatment of certain peoples. Sorry for thinking that love of country means just that and not that I'm a Nazi. Sorry for your hurt feelings if we don't welcome immigrants looking to change our way of life to theirs. I will be happy to sell you an all electric conformitymobile so you can drive it around your comformity neighborhood and say hello to your non gender specific co-habitants while conforming to the latest PC way to cook your Vegan dinner while apologizing to the carrots for having to eat them to survive. Orwellian future here we come. I never thought I would see this kind of BS in my lifetime. 100-200 years from now sure but not now. Rant over

 

[clhyer]

"automobile? something like that will break down all the time, it needs gas and where you going to buy that - there ain't no place to buy gas hereabouts. You think they will put up a place to buy gas every 50 miles? Give me my good reliable horse and buggy..."

Said a whole bunch of people in 1900...
Echoed in substance by a whole bunch of people in 2017...

 

[Fury440]

Is it just me or is there an all out attack on our way of life from snowflakes, PC media and just general headlong plummeting towards some so called Utopian future dictated to us by the alarmist generation spoon fed what to think by their socialist media demogogues. We have become a nation of apologists here in Canada at least. Sorry for everything that was ever done to the environment in our pursuit of progress. Sorry for the mistreatment of certain peoples. Sorry for thinking that love of country means just that and not that I'm a Nazi. Sorry for your hurt feelings if we don't welcome immigrants looking to change our way of life to theirs. I will be happy to sell you an all electric conformitymobile so you can drive it around your comformity neighborhood and say hello to your non gender specific co-habitants while conforming to the latest PC way to cook your Vegan dinner while apologizing to the carrots for having to eat them to survive. Orwellian future here we come. I never thought I would see this kind of BS in my lifetime. 100-200 years from now sure but not now. Rant over

I guess 'd have to live elsewhere, my love for big V8's and rare red meat wouldn't let me fit in. Oh well, their loss.

 

[Rwc]

GM promises, and GM deliveres is likely to be two different things. They are marketing for stock sales and Investors on this. GM is a clearing house for other companies inventions, not inventors.

Big News in Detroit just now.

GM going all-electric .. within a decade they say. I know they can talk the talk .. we'll see if they walk the walk.

Bye bye internal combustion engines? How long before all our OLD IRON wil be required to be scrapped by law?

Dont laugh .. it could happen.

source: GM promises 20 all-electric cars by 2023

• GM says it "believes in an all-electric future."

• The carmaker will introduce at least 20 new all-electric vehicles by 2023

• Two new EVs will hit the market by 2018, following the Chevy Bolt which was launched in 2016.

• GM will also pursue a hydrogen fuel-cell electric strategy, to address the needs of non-retail customers ​

 

[amazinblue82]

"automobile? something like that will break down all the time, it needs gas and where you going to buy that - there ain't no place to buy gas hereabouts. You think they will put up a place to buy gas every 50 miles? Give me my good reliable horse and buggy..."

Said a whole bunch of people in 1900...
Echoed in substance by a whole bunch of people in 2017...

cant argue your point cal. every tech transition has a "spectrum" of adopters. beta testers on one end .. "HTFN" on the other

the "masses" eventually come atound IF the change is truly superior. the car us far superior to the horse ..but the horse hung around for another 30 years

this one ... EV's ... i just do not see the clear superiority over IC's. objectively (subjectively EVs are AC'd golfcarts to me) i just dont get it.

plus its balled up in "politics" & that bugs me.

feel same way about driverless vehicles ..i cannot imagine wanting to be in a car facing the backseat watching a movie from the "driver seat" doing 80 ..in the rain.

that there? oh, hell naw. sorry .. i just dont get it. my millenial kids? they think its cool .. driving is a hassle to them and some of their cohorts.

 

[commando1]

Is it just me or is there an all out attack on our way of life from snowflakes, PC media and just general headlong plummeting towards some so called Utopian future dictated to us by the alarmist generation spoon fed what to think by their socialist media demogogues.

Nope. Not just you.