How many '64 - '66 Imperial ragtops are left?

[patrick66]

There were 514 '66 convertibles built;
633 1965 convertibles, and
922 1964 convertibles manufactured.
Total of 2,069 of the most beautiful Imperials ever produced!

I remember reading long ago that once you get past a certain age of car, the estimation that 10% survive is a fairly valid one. This supposedly includes cars that would be useful only as a parts car. So, ten percent of 2,069 is 207 cars for the three years, inclusive. After a few years of rummaging around through the g--gle, duckduckgo, and bing search engines looking at various photographs, I'm inclined to think that 207 number is pretty dang close to reality, so far as these cars go.

What do you guys think? I know of one '64 and one other '66 in Oklahoma that are running, driving examples. So, there is three known for one US State. Convertibles tend to last, because they are NOT derby-fodder, and tend to be taken better care of through their lives. Do you think 200 or so is a low number, or do you think more that that are out in the wild? I'm very curious to hear what you think on this.

 

[polara71]

I think 10% is a good generic rule of thumb.
My following of my favorite convertibles with 842 produced means 84 should be left but there have been 130 located in various states of survival .

If you've been looking for 30 or 40 years you'd likely have found most of them. Probably a few still tucked away in your home state alone and you have no idea they're there.

 

[MAXWEDGECHAR]

In 1979 I bought a '65 off of a gas station that had done work and not been paid. I flat towed it home with my '65 Crown Coupe! Along with my Coupe it was a daily driver in the summer into the Fall. It was dark green metallic with gold leather. I considered it the bastard of the 633. The only options were the colors and the AM radio. It didn't even have power locks! I listed it in Hemmings and a man in Wisconsin called me. Fran Ochsner (SP?) in Horicon. He owned a small trailer company that built small trailers! We made a deal and I delivered it. My father followed me in Mom's '62 Lancer GT! When we arrived he had me park inside one of his buildings. Inside was a 1917 Oakland and a low miles Lincoln MK III. He took me to his shop. Inside were 17 or 18 '64 convertibles and my '65 was his third! The other two were in the midst of restoration with a newly rebuilt engine sitting on a stand. Somewhere in the middle Nineties his collection and the business was sold. My son who was 6 at the time, only had one ride in it, has never forgiven me for selling it!

 

[detmatt]

If I were a gambling man I would wager that there are more than 10% left but I can provide no evidence, just a gut feeling.

 

[patrick66]

If I were a gambling man I would wager that there are more than 10% left but I can provide no evidence, just a gut feeling.

Probably right, as sedans, hardtops and wagons in any given car line were rode hard and put up wet, in many cases. Plus, where that car started life matters a ton. Convertibles are/were generally NOT Winter cars, so they tended to stay protected from the Winter snow and salt..

In the case of the '66, I've seen five different Daffodil Yellow convertibles pictured in the Bing list of pics, with one found at a classic dealer in Germany. It's fun to spot one I haven't seen before.

 

[69CoronetRT]

For what it's worth....

I started tracking '69 Coronet R/T convertibles 20 years ago. In that time, I've found ~85 VINs out of ~483 total made. Meaning, I can account for only about 17% of total production over the course of actively searching for 20 years.

Of those cars, around 45 cars are even road worthy (this includes rust buckets that can still move under their own power) So for this one year small sample over the course of 20 years, I can find less than 10% of total production that can still move.

The package cars (AARs/TAs, Daytonas, Superbirds, A12s, M code Darts/Barracudas,etc), models that are heavily research and counted, seem to be closer to the 20%, or more survived range but some/most of them were treated more kindly and restored due to intrinsic value.

(I can't speak to the '70 Hurst cars. Does anyone have a number of those that are accounted for?)

There is absolutely no way to know how many cars of a certain year or type exist as there is no way to know what cars are out there in any condition resting in barns, fields and ravines.

Yet, the possibility of the numbers being the single to low digit double digit percentages is certainly plausible.

 

[polara71]

For what it's worth....

I started tracking '69 Coronet R/T convertibles 20 years ago. In that time, I've found ~85 VINs out of ~483 total made. Meaning, I can account for only about 17% of total production over the course of actively searching for 20 years.

Of those cars, around 45 cars are even road worthy (this includes rust buckets that can still move under their own power) So for this one year small sample over the course of 20 years, I can find less than 10% of total production that can still move.

The package cars (AARs/TAs, Daytonas, Superbirds, A12s, M code Darts/Barracudas,etc), models that are heavily research and counted, seem to be closer to the 20%, or more survived range but some/most of them were treated more kindly and restored due to intrinsic value.

(I can't speak to the '70 Hurst cars. Does anyone have a number of those that are accounted for?)

There is absolutely no way to know how many cars of a certain year or type exist as there is no way to know what cars are out there in any condition resting in barns, fields and ravines.

Yet, the possibility of the numbers being the single to low digit double digit percentages is certainly plausible.

Gees if I took out the number of cars that were junked, trashed, parted or beyond road worthy for my addiction I could slice 130 in half or possibly less .

 

[detmatt]

There are 510 300 Hurst cars left out of the 498 built…

 

[patrick66]

Including three of the none built 300 Hurst ragtops!

 

[MAXWEDGECHAR]

I get to play Corvette owner and Marti report with my Max. 1196 '63 Plymouth Maxes, 234 Sport Fury hardtops, 107 11:1 automatics, 48 black with copper interior and mine is one of 7 exactly alike. And when I say that it's things like non-tinted glass, no seat belts, white walls and wheel covers and AM radio and heater! Darrell Davis and Govier have 10% give or take in their registries, I think.

Wasn't the first Hurst a convertible for displaying a large Hurst shifter and Linda Vaughn?

 

[bronze turbine]

I would just say that convertibles are probably more likely to survive than non-convertibles because they are more rare to begin with so probably more sought after and better taken care of, plus as previously mentioned less likely to be driven in winter or bad weather. Also, convertibles not demo-derbied.

 

[hergfest]

Plus Imperials were high dollar cars, which means higher dollar owners, who kept their cars better, more likely to be garaged, etc.

 

[patrick66]

I picture some Imperial hoarder somewhere with a dozen '64 - '66 ragtop Imperials socked away, with the owner sitting in a well-worn leather recliner in the corner of his ragtop shed, thinking to himself "lookie what I have!"...and no one else knows about it.

 

[Imperialist]

Sounds like you are talking about the late Fran Ochsner of Horicon, WI. He had dozens of ‘64 and ‘65 Imperial convertibles and was restoring them 2 or 3 at a time.

 

[MAXWEDGECHAR]

Yes, Fran bought my '65. I would love to know where it is now and if he or anybody else ever restored it. VIN is Y253284392. I have a copy of the title and the best part is it's listed as an "Imperial" not a Chrysler Imperial.

 

[patinated_imperial]

....

In the case of the '66, I've seen five different Daffodil Yellow convertibles pictured in the Bing list of pics, with one found at a classic dealer in Germany. It's fun to spot one I haven't seen before.

I think that one listed in Germany might be in Denmark now. If it is around 3years ago. (?)
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a few in Sweden. There is a guy with a light green '65 convertible posting regularly in the primarily Swedish "imperialclub" facebook group.

 

[Joerg]

The force is strong in the Swedish Imperium, I presume... ;)

 

[watchfatha]

Sounds like you are talking about the late Fran Ochsner of Horicon, WI. He had dozens of ‘64 and ‘65 Imperial convertibles and was restoring them 2 or 3 at a time.

I flew out to Fran in Horicon, WI and purchased the only one he had that was untouched, a 1964, 40k mile car originally from San Francisco, CA. VERY interesting fellow, who liked his "chew" (kept a spit cup with him at all times) and happened to be illiterate. I negotiated with him, agreed upon a price, whereupon his wife signed over the title, which I took back to NYC where I lived at the time in order to register it. I then flew back 2 weeks later with my then 10 year old son and we drove the car back to New York City without incident.

Fran was a very successful local businessman who told me that he relied on his gut instinct all through his life, which is why he signed over the car after just receiving a personal check from me. It turns out he was also a man of integrity; the car never gave me an ounce of trouble PLUS he told me to put freon (R12) in to the ac system and it would work. I did, and it did. Great experience with Fran Ochesner. That same car came up for sale recently as the fellow to whom I sold it had passed away and it was part of an estate sale. I almost bought it back, but I now have a 66 convert and a 64 convert, so no room.

As to Imperial survival, I think MANY more than 10% survived. These were ultra high quality cars that were originally ordered by "quiet money" people who maintained them (for the most part) and then passed them along to a very small but select group of enthusiasts (us) who continued to care for them. Over the years, I myself have had 4 1964 convertibles, 1 1965, 4 1966's and 1 1967-all great cars-and I'm just a part-time hobbyist with a 2 car garage.

 

[LocuMob]

I know if one just a few miles north of me. Saw it when I first moved down here, and I've wanted to stop by sometime. I'll stop next time I see the garage door open and see if I can't get some details.

 

[Marv]

I picture some Imperial hoarder somewhere with a dozen '64 - '66 ragtop Imperials socked away, with the owner sitting in a well-worn leather recliner in the corner of his ragtop shed, thinking to himself "lookie what I have!"...and no one else knows about it.

yep my friend who I bought my 73 coupe off owns presently 3 65 convertibles. This blue one and two white ones. the golden car in this picture sitting in front of the blue car is also a 65 ragtop but this one lives now in California. He owned more of these in the past and I told him once that I find it funny that he owned over the years more than 1% of all produced 65 ragtops.

I´m not sure on that 10% estimate as an average. You have to differentiate between cars that were expensive and kinda special when new and average daily drivers. The special car ( I would count an Imperial ragtop to those ) was more likely to be garage kept and driven in nice weather and is more likely to still exist. Try to find a decent grocery getter like a Town & Country or a 6 cylinder Duster / Dart. They are rarer than some Hemi cars I figure since they were beaten to death.