Looking for tires for my '67 Monaco

MoPar~Man

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I'm going to have to start looking into tires for my '67 Monaco. The current Uniroyal tires have been damaged by going flat, they remarkably came back to life when re-inflated, but I wouldn't trust them on the highway. I need to double-check but I think I'm looking for G78-14 (it's either G or H). I know the proper tire should have 1" white-wall, but I've stumbled across these:

commander-1.jpg


The only name on them seems to be "Commander". I'm thinking these were made by Coker. The ad says 3" white wall, asking price is $650 (CAD) for the set, but I my first offer (and probably only offer) would be $400. Since they are marked in both LBS and KG I would imagine they are not old, but still maybe 10, 15 years old? Seller says they've never been put on a rim. The ad was only posted 3 days ago.


Another option are these tires:

unknown-tire.jpg


They are H78-15. I think I have a set of 15" rims, but not a proper Dodge hubcap, let alone a Monaco 15" hubcap. I'm not even sure if a '67 Monaco could be had with 15" rims. I have Plymouth hubcaps for 15" rims. These tires definately look 30+ years old, no metric markings on them, but I can't see the name. Asking is $100 for all 4 tires.

If anyone here in Ontario (or Canada) can point me to a source for suitable vintage tires let me know.

I'm wanting to be talked out of buying the wide whitewalls because they just wouldn't look right ...
 
None of the above. Do not trust old tires, even if never used.
And yes, the wide whites would look awful, IMHO.
I have heard of many using the Hankook Optimo whitewalls. We can get them for under 80 USD.
There are size conversion charts on the net.
 
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G78x14 was usually for non-factory a/c cars. H78x14 was for a/c cars and especially Chryslers. Which would equate to P215/75x14 (G) and P225/75x14 (H) sizes. Both came on 14x5.5" wheels.

15" wheels and tires were reserved for Power Disc Brake cars, until 1969 model year. As a result, PDB cars usually had "Disc Brakes" on the wheel cover center.

The approx 1" white sidewall width is appropriate, but can go as narrow as .75". Radials make things so much better, by observation, but MIGHT have a bit more impact harshness on bumps and such. The best compromise was the later-1960s bias-belted tires, but I'm not aware of anybody still building them.

The P215/75R-14 size is repro'd, I believe, but not the P225/75 R-14 any more. Although both sizes usually are in 15" sizing. Nexen and Hankook can probably cover those, possibly even in whitewalls, but you'll have to look for the whitewall listings as almost everything is now blackwalls. Check their websites for the catalog numbers for the whitewall tires, then see if a local dealer can special order then for you, possibly. Get ready for "No", too. Might have to get them online.

Pricing can be a big deal! Repro tires usually get close to $300.00/tire whereas the normal-production tires can be a bit less than $100.00/tire. So, check on these things, too.

Happy hunting!
CBODY67
 
From what I can see, 215/75-14 and 225/70-14 are the matching metric size for G78-14. I'm not able to find any tables that have the actual tire diameter or rotations-per-mile for the alpha-numeric tire sizes, only charts showing their p-metric equivalent.

I don't know when tire or car companies started using the alpha codes in their specs, I think that back in '67 the actual tires were spec'd as 8.25-14 (or 825-14). Although Coker says "Alphanumeric sizing became common in 1967".

The 215/75 and 225/70 are about 1/4" difference in diameter (the 215 is the taller tire) and they give (theoretically) about 760 revs per mile, but actual tire specs show more like 780.

H78-14's are equivalent to 225/75-14 and 235/70-14, those metric sizes give about 740-750 revs per mile and are 27" in diameter.

It seems that the H78 would be 1/2" larger diameter than the G78. The larger tire would probably have a higher load rating, which could be the reason for spec'ing them for cars with A/C.

There appear to be no tires available in the 225-75R14 size (but see Kontio Tyres). I think that 225 wide tires are going to require at least 6" rims.

215-75R14 tires that are available (or at least are listed) include:

Cooper Trendsetter SE ($93) and Cobra Radial GT
Toyo Extensa A/S II
Kumho Solus TA11
Hankook Kinergy ST
Hankook Optimo H724
Nexen N Priz AH5
Uniroyal Tiger Paw AWP II
General AltiMAX RT45 and Altimax RT43
GT RADIAL - MAXMILER ST (this is not General Tire -?)
BF Goodrich Radial T/A ($165)
Venezia 787 VZ005 (white wall)

The Hancook Kinergy comes as a narrow-stripe whitewall, cost (tirerack) shows $108 ($10 more than the blackwall versio), tread depth is a very disappointing 8.5/32 but somehow this is rated as a 70k mile tire.
 
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Respectfully, some of your information (#4 above) is a modern take on prior specs, which can make it a bit dated and inaccurate, from what I've seen since 1968.

Yes, tires used to be rated in inches of section width. The 8.25x14 tire was supposed to be 8.25" wide, although no government standards existed at that time.

The alpha-numeric system started with the 1968 model year. A letter for total weight capacity, numbers for the aspect ratio and rim diameter. From an article in CAR LIFE magazine about this, it was stated that the letters would make it easier for replacement tire purchasers to make sure they got a tire with enough weight capacity for their vehicle. Also, "Minimum Tire Size" decals started to appear on the lower B-pillar area of the lh front door, plus pressure recommendations, too. NO need to look at an owners manual for these things. The orientation being that the minimum tire size at the stated (minimum) tire inflations would be enough to carry the weight of the car, passengers, and trunk loadings. In some cases, OEMs had equipped vehicles with tires a notch too small in prior times, relying on the dealers to order the better size (which many obvioisly did not). So this was about tire safety, in many cases.

Radial tires, before 1968 and afterward, were listed in metric (millimeter) sizes for the section width, but later included aspect ratio, too. Hence, normal radial would be "215x14" or "215/70x14". NO P-metric designations yet!

So, you can convert the old "inches" width to Metric width by . . . Inches x 25.4 = metric width. Then as now.

With the then-coming increased emphasis on EPA fuel economy ratings, it was determined that tires needed to have higher inflation pressures (high than 32psi for "standard load" tires). To indicate that change, the "P-Metric" sizing was introduced. With its additional nomenclatures and such, too.

P = Passenger ___ = Section width __ = Aspect Ratio _ = Construction Type - __ = Rim Diameter With a "Load Ratio" followed by a "Letter" designating Speed Rating.

P225/75R-15 for a radial P225/75D-15 for a "diagonal ply" (bias ply) 89T
Speed Ratig started with "S" = 112mph. "H" was about 135mph "V" to "Z" beihg higher.
There is a chart somewhere decoding the metric weight rating. P-Metric tires have a normal inflation pressue max of 35psi for a "Standard Load" tire, with about 40psi being an "Extra Load" passenger tire, similar to a 6-Ply rating or sorts, designated by "XL". There possibly is a more detailed breakdown of these things at places like www.tirerack.com.

As to "Revs/mile", my old BFG Radial T/A pamphlet lists it as "Rev/mile at 45mph". IF you get into the old SAE Specs for vehicles, it lists the "Revs/mile" rating for the tires on that particular vehicle. With the older bias-ply tires, the tires would expand as the speed increased, which radials minimized due to their radial construction. Bias-belteds would be similar.

Otherwise, you can look at the diameter of the tires, but the diameter can differ between "base diameter" or "compressd diamter" with the tire on the car and the car on the ground. An old "Hot Rod Annual" had a method to determine "rolling diameter" by marking the tire's tread and then rolling the tire one revolution, then measuring the distance between the marks to determine the tire's rolling circumference. Which could then be use to determine what we now call "Rev/mile". Needed one of two things to do all of this. A clean sheet of paper or a slide rule.

THEN, using these figures, you could do other computations to determine MPH per 1000 rpms, to determining speeds in gears and shift points. No tach needed for these things, after figuring all of these things. THEN you could do "time/distance" checks for speedometer speed calibration checks. In later times, I would use the mile markers on the Interstates to do this. 10 miles at a constant speed of 60mph works nicely as 66ft/second = 60mph = 60 seconds/mile. 10 miles usually worked best, when I could find a section of highway that long, which was flat, but 5 miles can work well too. ALL in a time well before GPS!

Somewhere, I made a list of tire sizes and revs/mile from the many AMA Specs documents I have found online, many from www.hamtramck-historical.com. But what i had done earlier usually pointed to 8.55x14 and P225/70R-15 being the same basic revs/mile, as in 750-760revs/mile,. basically. FWIW, those "AMA Specs" documents are kind of like a condensed FSM's specs, all in one place.

OTHERWISE . . . "Revs/Mile" specs are listed, generally, for each tire size in the "Specs" section for the particular tire at www.tirerack.com. In most cases, both the revs/mile and "Diameter", too. But to me, depending on the sidewall deflection on radial tires, the "Revs/Mile" is more accurate for our purposes, to me.

One ALL of these things are known, with respect to speedometer gears in the transmission tailshaft, with changing gears and/or tire sizes, you can THEN see what gear combination might be needed to keep the speedometer cable revs/mile (and speedometer calibration) in specs.

Rear axle ratio and tire revs/mile means "Driveshaft revs/mile". Using the starting point in the FSM for speedometer gears/tire size/axle ratio, then use percentages to see what speedometer gears are needed (drive and driven). "Driven" being the gear the cable end attaches to at the transmission.

There are several online interactive charts to indicate tire dimensions and revs/mile just by inputting the information, then getting a comparison (visual and number) of the starting and ending tire size. The first such chart I found was at www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html. Its firgures can be "theroretical" rather than actual, though, so using the spec charts at TireRack can be a bit more accurate, by observation.

Starting with the alpha-numeric designations of 1968, government standards for tire sizing and such were put in place. With a max variation of 7% from the stated spec being allowed.

Respectfully, almost all of the information you desire IS online, just have to know where to look for it and compile it, by observation.

Other than the Nexens and Hankook whitewalls, there can be more white letter tires in our sizes, in some brands. By observation, Cooper Trendsetter SE USED to have 14" whitewall sizes, with the OEM narrow treads the cars came with. But I believe they had been discontinued over time.

Tire tread width is supposed to be within plus or minus 1" of the rim width. Rim width being measured BETWEEN the beads rather than on their outer edges. A 6" rim width might be better than a 5.5" rim width on a 8.55x14 tire, but NOT necessary. As for handling, probably would not be able to feel any real difference between a 5.5" and 6.0" rim width, I highly suspect. Although with a bit more arc in the narrower rim, might get a slightly better ride.

Now, in that subject . . . when I put the 15x7 Magnum GT wheels on my '80 Newport, I opted to keep the P215/75R-15 standard size tires. With the wider rim, it made the tires' sidewalls pretty much vertical, with little radial bulge. Which seemed to increase steering response more than I expected. A neat way to get better performance from the inexpensive tires I put on them.

Sorry for the length, lots of dynamics to mention in this area.

Respectfully,
CBODY67
 
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Mopar Man: I went with Nexens on my 67 Chrysler Convertible and have nothing but praise for them. I like the increase in load rating and the thinner whitewall stripe, more of a 60's look rather the wider 50's stripe. Just an FYI, I could not find any white walls anywhere around me in Vancouver, so I took a chance and called the Nexen distribution center in Ontario. A really nice lady got on the phone, and after about 2 minutes told me there was a set in Kelowna, about a 4 hour drive from me. She gave me their phone # and I called the shop in question, which turned out to be the BC distributor. Amazingly, the BC distributor agreed to ship them to my local tire store where I live, and I had them the next day! Rarely seen customer service like this these days!
Cam Shaft
 
Back in 1992 I took published data specs from 36 tires and worked out a bunch of equations on recommended rim width, effective rolling diameter, max load, etc. These were for P-metric tires (not alpha numeric). What these equations tell me today, I'm not sure, other than maybe putting anything wider than a 195 tire on a 5.5" rim is probaby outside the design tolerance of the tire.

I have to check to see if my G78-14 Uniroyal Fastracks are on 5.5" or 6" rims. I'm thinking they're 5.5" rims, but that obviously wasn't a problem with a tire ratio of 78% to give the correct tire diameter.

tire-size-chart.jpg


The problem, as we know, is that the high-profile tires have been gone for 2 or more decades. Except perhaps for "trailer" tires. To get the correct over-all diameter on a 14" rim you need to go to 215 or even 225 wide and bring the ratio down to 75 or 70. When you're dealing with a 5.5" rim, that's a problem. I looked at a couple 15" rims I have, and even they are 5.5 wide.


That site does not have info on any 60's Monaco, has no Polara's listed. It is showing Chrysler Newport 1967, and it says the tire today would be 195/75R14, the rim being 5.5J (J is mounting flange type). Is that related to "JJ" seen in the old tables?
 
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From about the middle 1960s, many OEMs used 5.5" wide wheels on 8.25x14 and 8.55x14 tires, including Chrysler. The 9.00x14 tires on C-body station wagons were on 6.5" wide 14" wheels. The "HD" wheels on police vehicles and such were 6.0" wide 14" wheels. Sometimes referred to as "Wide Rim" wheels, or similar, in sales literature.

In about 1972, we had some Golden Sonic 78 whitewalls on our '66 Newport with the standard 14x5.5" wheels. On those wheels, the tires measured to have a 70% aspect ratio and had a nice, wide tread (about 6" or so). The inner sidewall rub strips had evidence of touching the outer tie rod end boots, too. I ran them at 30/28 f/r with no wear issues at all. If you look at the TireRack spec sheets, supplied by the tire companies, there is an "Acceptable Rim Width Range" column, but also a "Measuring Rim Width" column in the chart, too, with a notation of how much a different rim width would affect the tire's width in the sidewall area.

End result, from what I've seen over the years since the middle 1960s, is that a .5-1.0" difference in wheel rim width is not a real deal-breaker on tire performance. With the old tire tread width to wheel rim width relationship of the tread width being no more than plus or minus 1" from the wheel rim width, for best results. That keeps the arc of the sidewall within apparent design specs for the tire's mold shape. Which means the tread stays flat on the road, not being convex or concave, for best performance and wear. Although "concave" can also relate to inflation pressure and loading of the vehicle compared to the tire's load capabilities.

Happy Holidays!
CBODY67
 
By observation, the TRA caused a good bit of controversy in the conversion to P-Metric tire sizes. At the time, there was some confusion of how the P-Metric sizes related to the prior alpha-numeric and earlier tire sizes. It was the TRA's orientation that load capacity should be the governing factor. Valid concern . . . except that the P-Metric tires were rated to 35psi rather than the prior 32psi, which meant that a P215/75R-14 size at 35psi could have a higher load rating than a 8.55x14 tire, which is what the car came with. End result was that, according to their criteria, the "next size down" (physically) tire size was their recommendation. Which meant that at normal inflation pressures, the tires were really "one notch smaller" than they should have been.

At that time, we frequented a local tire store and I was reading the TRA books, listing those things.

To me, they should have gone with the tire's diameter, which would keep the correct cosmetics of the tires on the car and the speedometer/odometer readings would be more accurate, too. Seems like it took the TRA several years to figure this out as later editions of their books trended in that direction.

In the 1968 CAR LIFE magazine article on the then-new alpha-numeric tire sizes, it also listed the Government specs for tire dimensions, too. Not sure how they might relate to the TRA chart, though.

Happy Holidays!
CBODY67
 
I do have 3 rims (15" x 7" 4.25" backspacing) and 1 rim (15" x 6.5" 4.25 bs) but they need a good cleanup. And at least 3 rims (15" x 5.5 3.75 bs) plus a few more rims I need to measure. I would love to have some 14" x 6 or 6.5 but I can't find them anywhere (online). Might call some local junk yards.

Those wide white-walls are looking better and better. Hey - I can always black-paint 2" of the white stripe to give a 1" stripe - right?
 
Those wide white-walls are looking better and better. Hey - I can always black-paint 2" of the white stripe to give a 1" stripe - right?
For the $300.00/tire price for those wide-white repros, you might look at Diamondback Classics and get them to fuse the sidewall width of your choice on modern radials.
 
No - the guy is asking $650 for the set of 4 tires (the first pic in the first post). And those are CanBux. And that's no tax. It's about a 200 mile round trip drive for me though.
 
I'm going to have to start looking into tires for my '67 Monaco. The current Uniroyal tires have been damaged by going flat, they remarkably came back to life when re-inflated, but I wouldn't trust them on the highway. I need to double-check but I think I'm looking for G78-14 (it's either G or H). I know the proper tire should have 1" white-wall, but I've stumbled across these:

View attachment 571944

The only name on them seems to be "Commander". I'm thinking these were made by Coker. The ad says 3" white wall, asking price is $650 (CAD) for the set, but I my first offer (and probably only offer) would be $400. Since they are marked in both LBS and KG I would imagine they are not old, but still maybe 10, 15 years old? Seller says they've never been put on a rim. The ad was only posted 3 days ago.


Another option are these tires:

View attachment 571945

They are H78-15. I think I have a set of 15" rims, but not a proper Dodge hubcap, let alone a Monaco 15" hubcap. I'm not even sure if a '67 Monaco could be had with 15" rims. I have Plymouth hubcaps for 15" rims. These tires definately look 30+ years old, no metric markings on them, but I can't see the name. Asking is $100 for all 4 tires.

If anyone here in Ontario (or Canada) can point me to a source for suitable vintage tires let me know.

I'm wanting to be talked out of buying the wide whitewalls because they just wouldn't look right ...
None of those tires are worth buying.
Put good money into good new tires and rims.
I have been in the tire biz for 27 years and had a lot of old car customers I did modern day converions from bias ply to radials.
Find yourself a set of 15x7 Diplomat or 5Th Ave wheels. Still very common and reasonably priced.
On my C's 22575r15 or 23570R15 works very well and the speedo is close by 2mph.
The 22575R15 in a whitewall are still common in Nexen,Khumo, and Hankook.
Yes the 67 Dodge C's even in Canada 15 inch wheels were optional on all models with drum brakes . The wheel covers was the same as used on Dodge trucks 67 to 71, Hemi B bodies, and also on other C bodies.

15 inch wheels were mandatory with Budd disc brakes. Early builds like mine (SPD December 1966) with the "Disc brake wheel cover same as 1966 models.
Hope this helps.

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20220828_115510.jpg


20220828_115534.jpg
 
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I'm not opposed to radials. I am opposed to spending $600+ CanBux just to get a set of 15" hubcaps, which means my focus will be on getting tires for 14" rims.
 
I'm not opposed to radials. I am opposed to spending $600+ CanBux just to get a set of 15" hubcaps, which means my focus will be on getting tires for 14" rims.
There is hardly anything available in the broadmarket tire brands in 14 inch tall enough to fit your car.
Sure that size is available in only trailer tires specifically
Hence the reason the majority of us here went 15 inch.
You will need a 22575r14. Only Coker or Diamond Back has offerings.
Hankook did make 2157514 but it is too small. Despite the undersize a few of us run this tire since there are no other low cost options.
 
I'm not opposed to radials. I am opposed to spending $600+ CanBux just to get a set of 15" hubcaps, which means my focus will be on getting tires for 14" rims.
The other option is go 15x7 Magnum 500's.
They look good on any slab even 4drs.

FB_IMG_1636089483226.jpg

Or Road wheels..

20220625_111132.jpg
 
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Mopar Man: I went with Nexens on my 67 Chrysler Convertible and have nothing but praise for them. I like the increase in load rating and the thinner whitewall stripe, more of a 60's look rather the wider 50's stripe. Just an FYI, I could not find any white walls anywhere around me in Vancouver, so I took a chance and called the Nexen distribution center in Ontario. A really nice lady got on the phone, and after about 2 minutes told me there was a set in Kelowna, about a 4 hour drive from me. She gave me their phone # and I called the shop in question, which turned out to be the BC distributor. Amazingly, the BC distributor agreed to ship them to my local tire store where I live, and I had them the next day! Rarely seen customer service like this these days!
Cam Shaft
I agree with your experience, the nice lady was able to tell me the ship my tires were on, how many in my size and that my tire guy should get on it ASAP. I had 4 Nexen AH5 narrow white walls the following week.

IMG_2571.jpeg
 
I'm not opposed to radials. I am opposed to spending $600+ CanBux just to get a set of 15" hubcaps, which means my focus will be on getting tires for 14" rims.
Wheel covers can be bought one at a time gradually. Put the word out and I am sure people will find covers for 15" The ride will be great.
 
No - the guy is asking $650 for the set of 4 tires (the first pic in the first post). And those are CanBux. And that's no tax. It's about a 200 mile round trip drive for me though.
Nexen's were about $100.00 each 235/75R15
 
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