Looking to buy a Fury III, advice on a located car / warning signs?

[system11]

So I'm looking to vent my inner mid life crisis, and the best way seems to be buying a big convertible cruiser. I found a 1969 Fury 3 fairly nearby, can you see any obvious issues?

Pretty sure the fender skirts are aftermarket, car was originally metallic green and it wasn't a bare metal respray. I know the side pipes and police lamps are non standard (probably will remove them if I buy it). The engine and transmission are rebuilt and look almost new (transmission is so clean it looks like it went on yesterday), looks like it has a new fuel tank. Everything seems to work (aside from a below point). It's like someone did a 95% resto and then stopped - new roof, carpet and replaced interior but they didn't both replacing the window seals. It was imported from Oregon in the last month or two.

Questions/issues:
* There's some filler on the outer sill below the rear of the passenger door (i'd guess the size of two overlaid quarters) and some rust behind the rear driver wheel which needs attention - are either of these "walk away"? The trunk has a small hole in it that needs patching but seems solid otherwise.
* Tail lights have 3 holes drilled in them for screwdriver access or something - definitely hand made, are the lenses incredibly rare or easy enough to pick up?
* It's non power drum brakes - is upgrading to a boosted drum setup fairly painless?
* I've been to see it twice so far, second occasion it got really hot and the overflow side tank went above the high marker despite same test/idle pattern and weather, so my assumption is the thermostat stuck - or is there anything these are prone to? It didn't want to restart at that temperature but starts first time when cold or normal midrage temp.

If anyone can throw any ideas/answers/advice my way it'd be appreciated - my only previous experience with US cars was a 71 Trans Am years ago. That definitely had better brakes but I don't really want to do the muscle car experience again, want a big lazy convertible and the Fury III has a nice shape.

 

[Davea Lux]

The car looks decent, Some questions:

1.) There are a lot of non-stock accessories: paint, headers, valve covers, air cleaner, radiator, side pipes, dummy spotlights, hubcaps and tires. Appears to be missing the heater control valve and a galvanized household tee or some after market shut off valve is installed the the heater line. This might be an indication of a bad heater core. Are you intending to put the car back stock or drive it the way it is? All can be brought back, but that will not be a cheap process.
2.) Can't evaluate any rust issues without quality close up photos. You need to take an inspection camera or high powered flash light and look inside the doors, rear quarter radii and rear window cavity to look for obvious bondo over rust out. Taillight lenses are hard to come by and usually run $250 or more ea. when you can find them. The power brake conversion is not all that difficult if you have some mechanical skills, you will need to find a power brake pedal and mounting bracket for most applications and a power brake booster that is correct for the car.
3.) Are there receipts for the rebuild on the engine and transmission? Are they correct for the application? You need to decode the build tag to verify that this was a big block car to start with as this greatly effects the value of the vehicle.
4.) Do not buy the car if it has heating issues, can be a portent of major engine problems, or as you say a simple t-stat. That is the current owners problem if he wants to sell the car. A lot of sellers are trying to unload a vehicle because they know it has problems, so buyer beware.

On a more detailed look inside the doors, etc if you find obvious rust out over a significant area, you probably want to run from this car. In my opinion, someone spent a lot of money to essentially screw this car up and if there is obvious bondo showing, there is probably a bunch more you can not see yet. Bondo is at best a temporary rust repair.
I would also suggest looking at the old car price guide to see what a comparable value car is selling for as a guide to determine if the car is fairly priced. When I try to evaluate a car such as this one, I start with the price for a nice one and start deducting the cost of the projected repairs to make it right. Often, these repairs are sufficient to make a car a less than viable candidate to restore.

Dave

 

[system11]

Thanks for the reply, to answer some questions:

1) I'm not too worried about how stock it is - would the valve go where the T is? I tested the fan works and it was pretty weak but opening and closing the vents showed it was spinning at least.

2) I was able to check doors and those were clean, front wings, bonnet, trunk are all perfect. There were some rough looking welds where the sill and the inner door panel meet, didn't look like patches just rough workmanship, and I have nothing to compare it to. I used a magnet to establish the size of the filled patch. Inside the trunk looking down the rear quarter sides where they meet the wheels one side was clean and the other rusty, starting from where the bad patch behind the driver rear is. Shame the lenses are rare, looking at a photo of a removed one the holes line up with the lower fitting bolts/studs.

3) No receipts - all the way down the sides of the engine it looks like it was built within the last year or two or never used. Headers look like the've been in there longer. I'll get the seller to write down details from the plate in the engine bay and the tag on the dash top.

4) He said he'd replace the thermostat and see if that fixes it, it was a surprise since last week when I took the first look we idled it, drove it, idled & stopped & started over a period of an hour+ and the temp gauge varied just over the middle, zero smoke even from stone cold too - the way it revs and sounds I'd be surprised if the rocker covers, carb and headers are the only changes. Yesterday did all the same stuff as the first test, but once the car stopped moving it the needle went up to the top and the whole bay was hot.

It's a small car dealer, they've started to import classics - he seemed honest if a little generous with descriptions, but I think there's a lot of room for a lack of knowledge, these aren't 10 year old BMWs. It seems somewhat expensive but over here there aren't a huge number to compare it to. The price is flexible, I found one for half the price but it's a smaller 318 which needs a new roof and probably a respray. I found another for a little more than half but it's a 65 with the small engine again and needs complete reupholstering and a respray.

Pretty much set on getting this model and rough age at least, even if I skip this one it's been good for learning.

 

[theadmiral]

I *will not* call it a midlife crisis car, but I bought a 68 Fury III convertible a couple years ago, and it's been really, really fun. Most people can't tell the difference between a 65 chevelle Z16 and an 82 camaro Z28...but everyone will smile and wave at big Detroit iron with the top down (and a carful of kids).

I found my car on Craigslist in San Antonio (<2h away), but I had been looking for at least a little while (search criteria == big convertible, big block). I used my Dad and a couple gearhead friends to look it over as a sanity check -- I'm mechanical, but not like the experts here. I probably paid more than I probably could/should have, but I got unmolested survivor that should be pretty stable if I ever need to get out of it. And I don't have to do anything to it, although I did have the steering box replaced, and the rear axle rebuilt (caught that during the test drive, had the seller bring the price down).

I would say look around and/or keep looking, and be patient. You can very easily burn through a bunch of money trying to fix someone else's cosmetic taste...not to mention a real problem like overheating.

The good news is that forcbodiesonly is a great place to look for parade floats, if that's what you've decided you want. Not only do people post ads from across the country, but a lot of times, someone will volunteer to help and check out a car for you.

Good luck!
Jeff

 

[theadmiral]

Thanks for the reply, to answer some questions:

It seems somewhat expensive but over here there aren't a huge number to compare it to. The price is flexible, I found one for half the price but it's a smaller 318 which needs a new roof and probably a respray. I found another for a little more than half but it's a 65 with the small engine again and needs complete reupholstering and a respray.

New top should be about $600, and I think is pretty easy.

New paint is significantly more expensive, especially to do it right.

I don't think repupholstering is cheap, either.

Repairing rust...<sigh>

I have the 383, and I'm happy with it...but I always have the smallest engine whenever I go to a MoPar meetup. :-D

This is Daphne's sister, and appropriately priced for the Austin market (which is probably expensive):
For Sale - 68 Fury III 440 Convertible in Austin

440, power everything, $15,900

Jeff

 

[Davea Lux]

Thanks for the reply, to answer some questions:

1) I'm not too worried about how stock it is - would the valve go where the T is? I tested the fan works and it was pretty weak but opening and closing the vents showed it was spinning at least.

2) I was able to check doors and those were clean, front wings, bonnet, trunk are all perfect. There were some rough looking welds where the sill and the inner door panel meet, didn't look like patches just rough workmanship, and I have nothing to compare it to. I used a magnet to establish the size of the filled patch. Inside the trunk looking down the rear quarter sides where they meet the wheels one side was clean and the other rusty, starting from where the bad patch behind the driver rear is. Shame the lenses are rare, looking at a photo of a removed one the holes line up with the lower fitting bolts/studs.

3) No receipts - all the way down the sides of the engine it looks like it was built within the last year or two or never used. Headers look like the've been in there longer. I'll get the seller to write down details from the plate in the engine bay and the tag on the dash top.

4) He said he'd replace the thermostat and see if that fixes it, it was a surprise since last week when I took the first look we idled it, drove it, idled & stopped & started over a period of an hour+ and the temp gauge varied just over the middle, zero smoke even from stone cold too - the way it revs and sounds I'd be surprised if the rocker covers, carb and headers are the only changes. Yesterday did all the same stuff as the first test, but once the car stopped moving it the needle went up to the top and the whole bay was hot.

It's a small car dealer, they've started to import classics - he seemed honest if a little generous with descriptions, but I think there's a lot of room for a lack of knowledge, these aren't 10 year old BMWs. It seems somewhat expensive but over here there aren't a huge number to compare it to. The price is flexible, I found one for half the price but it's a smaller 318 which needs a new roof and probably a respray. I found another for a little more than half but it's a 65 with the small engine again and needs complete reupholstering and a respray.

Pretty much set on getting this model and rough age at least, even if I skip this one it's been good for learning.

If the car had a heater control valve, A/C equipped cars, it will be mounted on the passenger fender well. The non A/C cars usually used an air door to cut off the air supply going to the heater core. Could not tell from the photo if this car was a factory A/C or not. Obviously does not have A/C compressor now.

Dave

 

[1970cat]

check for rust in the lower wings, rear wings (in front of and behind the wheels) , bulkhead near the windscreen wiper motor, and of course the floors. tail lights are easy to come by here, not sure about there. it looks like the police lights were drilled through the stainless pillars. removing them will leave holes. the interior looks very nice and the overall fit and finish seem good. i like it.

 

[system11]

The good news is that forcbodiesonly is a great place to look for parade floats, if that's what you've decided you want. Not only do people post ads from across the country, but a lot of times, someone will volunteer to help and check out a car for you.

Good luck!
Jeff

Definitely seems to be an active place with people who know about these cars! I'm all the way over in the UK - we have more US cars here than you'd expect, but still very low numbers. Prices are higher even ignoring currency rates.

 

[FURYGT]

One thing that you have not provided is the asking price. If more than $10k U.S., I'd be hesitant. Also, when buying something like this figure in another $2,500 or so to fix things that you know and don't know about that will need to be fixed.

 

[system11]

One thing that you have not provided is the asking price. If more than $10k U.S., I'd be hesitant. Also, when buying something like this figure in another $2,500 or so to fix things that you know and don't know about that will need to be fixed.

It's £20k, so more than double $10k! He's open to discussion on the price and getting work done before delivery, it's worth noting though that in this country the cheapest one I've seen from looking through current and recent ads is £9000 (roughly $12k), that needs a respray, a new roof and has a 318 in it. Can't say what else as there are only a few photos, I'm thinking I might go and see it if only for comparisons since it's another 69.

I bet the dealer paid $10k or less, not sure how much it will have cost in shipping - came in a container and we have taxes you can only dream of - 20% of the asking price is pure sales tax.

 

[Davea Lux]

It's £20k, so more than double $10k! He's open to discussion on the price and getting work done before delivery, it's worth noting though that in this country the cheapest one I've seen from looking through current and recent ads is £9000 (roughly $12k), that needs a respray, a new roof and has a 318 in it. Can't say what else as there are only a few photos, I'm thinking I might go and see it if only for comparisons since it's another 69.

I bet the dealer paid $10k or less, not sure how much it will have cost in shipping - came in a container and we have taxes you can only dream of - 20% of the asking price is pure sales tax.

British pound 20 x 1.32= $ 26,400

Dave

 

[LeBaron1973]

Well, it may be worth buying this one rather than one which needs extensive repairs. Even though it's expensive, it's probably far cheaper than repairing a cheaper one. Dealer will probably negotiate, do a Mike Brewer and split the difference, say £15,000, profit for them, better for you and you have £5000 for repairs.

Looks a beautiful convertible we wish you all the best with whatever one you settle on.

 

[FURYGT]

It's £20k, so more than double $10k! He's open to discussion on the price and getting work done before delivery, it's worth noting though that in this country the cheapest one I've seen from looking through current and recent ads is £9000 (roughly $12k), that needs a respray, a new roof and has a 318 in it. Can't say what else as there are only a few photos, I'm thinking I might go and see it if only for comparisons since it's another 69.

I bet the dealer paid $10k or less, not sure how much it will have cost in shipping - came in a container and we have taxes you can only dream of - 20% of the asking price is pure sales tax.

Too bad you were not on this forum a few months ago when a member had a near perfect red over white '69 300 convertible for sale for just over $20k. I don't know the shipping costs or tax implications but for $20k U.S. you could find a near perfect C Body convertible.

Two positives on the '69 that needs work is that you know what you have as far as the body goes and with the 318 your fuel costs will be significantly lower. You may also end up having about the same total investment given costs to fix things on the red Fury.

 

[system11]

Well the cheaper one is still available (photos) but apparently has rust behind both front arches and filler in the rear of one sill, I'm still going to look though because it'll give me lots of notes for comparison. Turns out the guy has a restored one a previous owner dropped a 360 into too, so two viewings for the price of one.

 

[system11]

I went to see the above today - those pictures above are somewhat flattering. Reality is lots of rust blisters and several areas that will need cutting out and replacing with new metal then a full bare metal respray. Interior on the seats is shot too, door cards might clean up. Roof is torn but it comes with a brand new one in a box. Looks rough in the engine bay but starts and drives really well - the 318 might even be a better engine for this car than a 383, seems to suit it. Assisted drums waaaaaay better than the unassisted, car actually stops. I'd class it a project car although everything does essentially work, it could be driven like this.

If nothing else it also answered several questions I had like the rough looking welds where the front door pillar meets the sill on the red one - also present on this gold one which hasnt been worked on, and on the one he's got nearly restored in the workshop.

This one is less than half the price of the red one but that rust will probably be expensive and is there anywhere you can buy new Fury III seat cover & foam sets? Back foam might be ok, front is now degrading a bit.

In case anyone is curious there's a set of photos for an Impala I looked at today, it has a 383 stroker dropped in and is a very angry drive. Wish it had a bench seat at the front though.

All the photos are at:
Index of /home/WebSites/System11/SITE/temp/Cars/tmp/

 

[FURYGT]

Take a look at this:

1969 Plymouth Fury Sport | eBay

 

[system11]

That's really nice, I'm really not sure I want to get into importing though - there are companies who handle it all for you, comes out at about £2500, but that's on top of the risk of rolling a dice and the cost of a respray here and what looks like minor interior repair. Turns out classic cars at least don't attract 30% in taxes, it's only 5% for anything >30 years old. How much would you expect that one to sell for (if the reserve is sane)?

 

[LeBaron1973]

Try SMS autofabrics in Oregon SMS Auto Fabrics - The Largest Selection of Classic Auto Interiors.

 

[FURYGT]

That's really nice, I'm really not sure I want to get into importing though - there are companies who handle it all for you, comes out at about £2500, but that's on top of the risk of rolling a dice and the cost of a respray here and what looks like minor interior repair. Turns out classic cars at least don't attract 30% in taxes, it's only 5% for anything >30 years old. How much would you expect that one to sell for (if the reserve is sane)?

With the desirable color combination and the amount of NOS parts my best guess is $10k to $12k US.

 

[system11]

Try SMS autofabrics in Oregon SMS Auto Fabrics - The Largest Selection of Classic Auto Interiors.

Thanks, just shot them an enquiry to ask what's inside the 'full interior kit', prices etc. The gold one is a full £10k cheaper than the red one with the rebuilt engine & new interior, but it's going to take alot of welding. Reasonable quality resprays and bodywork in the UK can be very expensive (everything here is...), it won't surprise me if the quote is in the mid thousands.

I'll wait until I can get some figures back but I'm probably leaning towards the red one and haggle the guy down over the cost of undrilled rear lenses and parts to upgrade to power assist brakes, and he can foot the bodyshop bill for the rust patch I found. That or the Impala, that car felt really well bolted together but no front bench and it's kind of moving more towards muscle car. Someone put a weird ratchet auto shifter in and I quite like the column shift on the Fury.