Motor oil

[saforwardlook]

A 15 year old spec is bad for a 45 year old car? Maybe for a 2 year old car.

As you said lots of bad info floating out there from both sides. Those that sell zinc have their vested interest and will not change their story. The there are others who have used 1000ppm zinc oils in older stock engine with no problems. One needs to consider what type of zinc is being used and what the critical balance is between zinc and detergents. Prior to 1993 zinc was technically not limited. By 1996 the specs said 1000ppm in 10W-30 API oils yet no cam failures. In 2004 API SM 10W-30 was now at 800ppm.

SG 1000-1400 - SH 1000-1400 - SL/SJ 1000-1400 - SM 30W and up 1000-1200ppm - SM 20W and down 800ppm - SN 800ppm.

You can use SN oil to break in an engine with a flat tappet cam under .400 lift and 215 lbs. spring pressure and that comes from Joe Gibbs. Once you go above that then things change. The other issue overlooked by some is the detergent pack. Today oils are designed to have longer OCI's which means better detergent packs. Yet those detergents also can clean off zinc while keeping the engine clean for longer. Hence the critical balance between zinc and detergents. Maybe, just maybe, the reason there were cam failures outside of builder mistakes and poor quality cams also had something to do with the balance between zinc and detergents. Both were changed at the same time but most all focus on zinc. Detergents and dispersants don't care if it is sludge, varnish or zinc they are cleaning off metal surfaces. If I could clean a store out of SL oil I would as I don't care about older detergent packs since I change oil once a year and with only 2000 miles on it at most. I think most of us do that with our older less used engines. An SL oil was typically spec'd for changing at around 5000 miles by most manufacturers.

Currently my stock engine Mustang, Polara and Park Lane use SM 10W-30 oils and get changed once a year with 1000-15000 miles on it. My Cougar gets VR-1 Racing oil with lower detergents which gets changed every year at 1000 miles. The truck, with it's newly rebuilt 390 and higher than stock lift cam will be broken in with Brad Penn. What is special about break in oil. We know it has higher zinc levels but it also has much lower detergent and dispersant levels. After that it will use the same as the Cougar. When the 410 and 360 are rebuilt they too will go to VR-1 as their standard running oil.

Brad Penn High Performance oil has comparable ZN/Ph levels to Valvoline VR-1 racing oil, but a better detergent package and a price within 10 cents/quart of each other. Couldn't you just use the Brad Penn and go longer between oil changes? So why would you ever use the VR-1 oil - maybe convenience at local Autozone, etc. outlets rather than mail order? Just trying to understand your reasoning.

Thanks

 

[tbm3fan]

My OCIs are every 1000 miles yearly and the oil still comes out looking new colored yet having sat most of the time. Detergents aren't as critical for that as for an OCI of 5000 miles or 3 years for me. Brad Penn is 8.20/qt. and VR-1 is 5.66/qt on Amazon.

 

[BJS racing]

My local O'Reily keeps straight 40 in stock for me and I change the oil every year weather it needs it or not! LOL. And Penn is much more than 10 cents a quart more than VR1 is.

 

[saforwardlook]

The best Amazon price, delivered to your door for Brad Penn is $6.50 per quart, while the best price at Autozone in my area for VR-1 is $6.20 per quart, and I have to go get it. But if you can get the VR-1 on Amazon much more cheaply than in the stores, then maybe the savings are more significant. I just assumed someone would get VR-1 locally because it is easily obtainable that way.

If the oil comes out like new after a year of use and low miles, it seems kind of wasteful and expensive to keep changing it anyway. I checked with Valvoline directly on their question answer line, and they were adamant that the VR-1 had to be changed after only 3 months "because that is how their additive package was designed". I think I will go with Brad Penn for these reasons in my case. In the long run, it is more expensive to keep changing the VR-1 when the Brad Penn does not have that time restriction (it is sold as a High Performance oil, not a racing oil). And all those extra semi-dry starts don't help bearing life I would expect and the constant oil changing task would be a nuisance to me with many cars to think about.

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

on a site note: I had never a dead camshaft due to the missing ZDDP in an old engine nor do I know of someone that had it. If it comes to fresh rebuilt engines with new cams everything changes completely. It feels like every fifth new cam is dying quickly.

Carsten

 

[tbm3fan]

A lot to read here

Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) 10W30 Conventional Racing Oil (lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 6 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 1607 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 2 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 1618 ppm
Zinc = 1669 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1518 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 784 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3971 ppm
Potassium = 7 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 190 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 4.4 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 9.8 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.
NOTE: The very low TBN value in this NSL oil would require increased oil change frequency, to avoid acid build-up. And Valvoline has said that their NSL oils should be changed at least every 500 miles.

Valvoline VR1 10W30 Racing Oil conventional (Silver Bottle, lab tested 2011)
This one does NOT have the API symbol, but its text says it exceeds API SM
Silicon = 10 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 73 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2707 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 3 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2787 ppm
Zinc = 1472 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1544 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 3 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 3019 ppm
Potassium = 6 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 380 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.6 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 11.0 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.
This oil is suitable for Classic Cars, High HP Street Hotrods and Street/Strip cars, as well as many dedicated race cars (including flat tappet setups and those with bronze dist gears).

Valvoline VR1 10W30 “SYNTHETIC” Racing Oil API SL (Black Bottle, lab tested 2011)
Silicon = 8 ppm (anti-foaming agent in new oil, but in used oil, certain gasket materials and dirt can also add to this number)
Boron = <5 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Magnesium = 15 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Calcium = 2664 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Barium = 0 ppm (detergent/dispersant, anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge)
Total detergent/dispersant (anti-deposit buildup/anti-sludge) = 2683 ppm
Zinc = 1180 ppm (anti-wear)
Phos = 1112 ppm (anti-wear)
Moly = 162 ppm (anti-wear)
Total anti-wear = 2454 ppm
Potassium = 5 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
Sodium = 195 ppm (anti-freeze inhibitor)
TBN = 7.4 (Total Base Number is an acid neutralizer to prevent corrosion. Most gasoline engine motor oils start with TBN around 8 or 9. And in use, this becomes depleted over time as mileage accumulates)
Viscosity (cSt at 100*C) = 10.4 (cSt range for SAE 30 is 9.3 to 12.4) And cSt (centistokes) in general terms, represents an oil’s thickness.
This oil is suitable for Classic Cars, High HP Street Hotrods and Street/Strip cars, as well as many dedicated race cars (including flat tappet setups and those with bronze dist gears).

I can also tell you that the extensive real world motor oil "Wear Testing" I've done over the past year, proves without question that zinc levels alone DO NOT DETERMINE AN OIL'S WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY. Worrying about zinc levels is just an old wives tale that does NOT stand up to actual "Wear Testing". Some high zinc oils test well, while other high zinc oils DO NOT.

What determines an oil's ability to prevent wear is its base oil and its additive package "As a whole". If anyone wants to swear up and down that you need high levels of zinc to provide good wear protection, tell them to prove it by providing actual "test data" to back up what they say. They will NOT be able to do it. All they can ever come up with is that they read or heard that you need a lot of zinc. But of course, that is hearsay, NOT proof. Modern low zinc oils can provide equal or better wear protection than traditional high zinc oils because there are a number of alternate chemical formulations that Oil Companys can use to provide wear protection. Zinc is only one way to go, but it fouls cats, so it needs to be replaced by other chemicals in API certified oils.

Here is the ranking from all the "Wear Testing" I've performed so far (the higher the psi, the better the wear protection):

1. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 115,612 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification. The bottle says, “No leading synthetic oil provides better wear protection”. For once, a product’s hype turns out to be true.
zinc = 806 ppm
phos = 812 ppm
moly = 66 ppm

2. “USED” 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN with 5,000 miles on it = 107,391 psi
zinc = 791 ppm (down 251 ppm or down 24% from new)
phos =643 ppm (down 214 ppm or down 25% from new)
moly = 67 ppm (down 33 ppm or down 33% from new)
titanium = 36 ppm (down 13 ppm or down 27% from new)
total anti-wear = 1537 ppm (down 511 ppm or down 25% from new)

The 107,391 psi wear protection capability shown here, is a 7% “higher” wear protection capability with this batch of “used” oil, compared to the original “new” test oil batch. Repeat testing of both the used batch of oil and the original new batch of oil, resulted in consistent and repeatable results for each batch. So, the wear protection capability psi value shown here is correct. This oil did NOT lose any wear protection capability, even though the zinc and the other anti-wear component levels have dropped SIGNIFICANTLY.

3. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
zinc = 2642 ppm
phos = 3489 ppm
moly = 1764 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

4. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 105,875 psi
zinc = 801 ppm
phos = 842 ppm
moly = 112 ppm

5. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN synthetic = 105,008 psi
zinc = 824 ppm
phos = 960 ppm
moly = 161 ppm


6. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi
zinc = 1669 ppm
phos = 1518 ppm
moly = 784 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

7. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 103,517 psi
zinc = 606 ppm
phos = 742 ppm
moly = 28 ppm

8. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
zinc = 1472 ppm
phos = 1544 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

9. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
zinc = 1180 ppm
phos = 1112 ppm
moly = 162 ppm

10. 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional = 100,011 psi
This one only costs $4.29 per quart at the Auto Parts Store where I bought it.
zinc = 1018 ppm
phos = 728 ppm
moly = 161 ppm

11. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 99,983 psi
zinc = 1042 ppm
phos = 857 ppm
moly = 100 ppm
titanium = 49 ppm

12. 20W50 Castrol GTX ,API SN conventional = 96,514 psi
zinc = 610 ppm
phos = 754 ppm
moly = 94 ppm

13. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi
zinc = 2207 ppm
phos = 2052 ppm
moly = 1235 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

14. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic = 96,364 psi
zinc = 742 ppm
phos = 677 ppm
moly = 81 ppm

15. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN synthetic = 95,920 psi
zinc = 877 ppm
phos = 921 ppm
moly = 72 ppm

16. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 95,717 psi
zinc = 818 ppm
phos = 883 ppm
moly = 90 ppm
titanium = 44 ppm

17. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil synthetic = 95,543 psi
zinc = 743 ppm
phos = 802 ppm
moly = 1125 ppm
NOTE: This oil is suitable for short term racing use only, and is not suitable for street use.

18. 5W20 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,543 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
NOTE: Oil numbers 17 and 18 were tested weeks apart, but due to the similarities in their wear scar sizes, their averages ended up the same.

19. 5W30 Castrol GTX ,API SN conventional = 95,392 psi
zinc = 830 ppm
phos = 791 ppm
moly = 1 ppm

20. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil synthetic = 95,360 psi
zinc = 1431 ppm
phos = 1441 ppm
moly = 52 ppm

21. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,942 psi
zinc = 969 ppm
phos = 761 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

22. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

23. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 94,663 psi
zinc = 764 ppm
phos = 698 ppm
moly = 76 ppm

24. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,460 psi
zinc = 1045 ppm
phos = 742 ppm
moly = 0 ppm


25. 5W30 Lucas, API SN conventional = 92,073 psi
zinc = 992 ppm
phos = 760 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

26. 5W30 O'Reilly (house brand), API SN conventional = 91,433 psi
This one only costs $3.99 per quart at the Auto Parts Store where I bought it.
zinc = 863 ppm
phos = 816 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

27. 5W30 Maxima RS530 Synthetic Racing Oil = 91,162 psi
zinc = 2162 ppm
phos = 2294 ppm
moly = 181 ppm

28. 5W30 Red Line, API SN synthetic = 91,028 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

29. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 90,434 psi
zinc = 964 ppm
phos = 892 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

30. 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi
zinc = 1221 ppm
phos = 955 ppm
moly = 99 ppm

31. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD


32. 30 wt Castrol Heavy Duty, API SM conventional = 88,089 psi
zinc = 907 ppm
phos = 829 ppm
moly = 56 ppm

33. 20W50 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 87,930 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

34. 10W30 Joe Gibbs HR4 Hotrod Oil synthetic = 86,270 psi
zinc = 1247 ppm
phos = 1137 ppm
moly = 24 ppm

35. 5W20 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 86,034 psi
I have not been able to find this oil with the latest API SN certification.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

36. 15W40 RED LINE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4/CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CF/CH-4/CF-4/SM/SL/SH/EO-O = 85,663 psi
zinc = 1615 ppm
phos = 1551 ppm
moly = 173 ppm

37. 5W30 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 84,009 psi
zinc = 942 ppm
phos = 817 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

38. 20W50 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 83,487 psi
zinc = 588 ppm
phos = 697 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

39. 20W50 Kendall GT-1 High Performance with liquid titanium, API SN conventional = 83,365 psi
zinc = 991 ppm
phos = 1253 ppm
moly = 57 ppm
titanium = 84 ppm

40. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN synthetic = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm

41. 0W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic = 82,867 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

42. 5W30 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 81,800 psi
zinc = 1784 ppm
phos = 1539 ppm
moly = 598 ppm


43. 15W40 ROYAL PURPLE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4 /SM, CI-4 PLUS, CH-4, CI-4 = 76,997 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

44. 5W30 Lucas API SM synthetic = 76,584 psi
zinc = 1134 ppm
phos = 666 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

45. 5W30 GM's AC Delco dexos 1 API SN semi-synthetic = 76,501 psi
zinc = 878 ppm
phos = 758 ppm
moly = 72 ppm

46. 5W50 Castrol Edge with Syntec API SN, synthetic, formerly Castrol Syntec, black bottle = 75,409 psi
zinc = 1252 ppm
phos = 1197 ppm
moly = 71 ppm


47. 5W30 Royal Purple XPR (Extreme Performance Racing) synthetic = 74,860 psi
zinc = 1421 ppm
phos = 1338 ppm
moly = 204 ppm

48. 5W40 MOBIL 1 TURBO DIESEL TRUCK synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4 and ACEA E7 = 74,312 psi
zinc = 1211 ppm
phos = 1168 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

49. 15W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil, conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM, = 73,520 psi
zinc = 1519 ppm
phos = 1139 ppm
moly = 80 ppm

50. 15W40 MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4/SM, SL = 73,300 psi
zinc = 1297 ppm
phos = 1944 ppm
moly = 46 ppm

51. 15W40 Farm Rated Heavy Duty Performance Diesel Oil conventional CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF/SL, SJ = 73,176 psi
zinc = 1325ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 2 ppm

52. 15W40 SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CH-4, CF-4,CF/SM = 72,022 psi
zinc = 1454 ppm
phos = 1062 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

53. Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 Nitro 70 Racing Oil semi-synthetic = 72,003 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

54. 0W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,377 psi
zinc = 1621 ppm
phos = 1437 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

55. 15W40 “OLD” SHELL ROTELLA T Diesel Oil conventional, API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4,CG-4,CF-4,CF,SL, SJ, SH = 71,214 psi
zinc = 1171 ppm
phos = 1186 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

56. 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 71,206 psi
zinc = 1557 ppm
phos = 1651 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

57. 15W40 VALVOLINE PREMIUM BLUE HEAVY DUTY DIESEL Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM = 70,869 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

58. 15W50 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 70,235 psi
zinc = 1,133 ppm
phos = 1,168 ppm
moly = 83 ppm

59. 5W40 CHEVRON DELO 400LE Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, SL, SM = 69,631 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

60. 30wt Edelbrock Break-In Oil conventional = 69,160 psi
zinc = 1545 ppm
phos = 1465 ppm
moly = 4 ppm

61. 5W30 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 68,782 psi
zinc = 796 ppm
phos = 830 ppm
moly = 75 ppm

62. 10W40 Edelbrock synthetic = 68,603 psi
zinc = 1193 ppm
phos = 1146 ppm
moly = 121 ppm
This oil is manufactured for Edelbrock by Torco.


63. 5W40 SHELL ROTELLA T6 Diesel Oil synthetic, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, SM, SL = 67,804 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

64. 15W40 LUCAS MAGNUM Diesel Oil, conventional, API CI-4,CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SL = 66,476 psi
zinc = 1441 ppm
phos = 1234 ppm
moly = 76 ppm

65. 15W40 CASTROL GTX DIESEL Oil conventional, API CJ-4, CI-4 Plus, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4/SN = 66,323 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

66. 10W30 Royal Purple HPS (High Performance Street) synthetic = 66,211 psi
zinc = 1774 ppm
phos = 1347 ppm
moly = 189 ppm

67. 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke Motorcycle Oil, API SJ conventional = 65,553 psi
zinc = 1154 ppm
phos = 1075 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

68. 5W30 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 64,175 psi
zinc = 1765 ppm
phos = 2468 ppm
moly = 339 ppm

69. “ZDDPlus” added to Royal Purple 20W50, API SN, synthetic = 63,595 psi
zinc = 2436 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2053 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
moly = 2 ppm (up 2 ppm)

The psi value here is 24% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Oil companies always say to NEVER add anything to their oils, because adding anything will upset the carefully balanced additive package, and ruin the oil’s chemical composition. And that is precisely what we see here. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

70. Royal Purple 10W30 Break-In Oil conventional = 62,931 psi
zinc = 1170 ppm
phos = 1039 ppm
moly = 0 ppm

71. 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil, conventional = 62,538 psi
zinc = 2116 ppm
phos = 1855 ppm
moly = 871 ppm

72. 0W20 Klotz Estorlin Racing Oil, API SL synthetic = 60,941 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD

73. 10W30 Comp Cams Muscle Car & Street Rod Oil, synthetic blend = 60,413 psi
zinc = 1673 ppm
phos = 1114 ppm
moly = 67 ppm


74. 10W40 Torco TR-1 Racing Oil with MPZ conventional = 59,905 psi
zinc = 1456 ppm
phos = 1150 ppm
moly = 227 ppm

75. 10W40 Edelbrock conventional = 59,120 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This oil is manufactured for Edelbrock by Torco.


76. 0W20 LAT Synthetic Racing Oil, API SM = 57,228 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD


77. “ZDDPlus” added to O’Reilly (house brand) 5W30, API SN, conventional = 56,728 psi
zinc = 2711 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2172 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
moly = 2 ppm (up 2 ppm)

The psi value here is a whopping 38% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.


78. “ZDDPlus” added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 56,243 psi
zinc = 2955 ppm (up 1848 ppm)
phos = 2114 ppm (up 1356 ppm)
moly = 76 ppm (up 2 ppm)

The psi value here is 12% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the ZDDPlus was added to it. Adding ZDDPlus SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

79. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Royal Purple 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 54,044 psi
zinc = 1515 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1334 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The psi value here is a whopping 36% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

80. 10W30 Comp Cams Break-In Oil conventional = 51,749 psi
zinc = 3004 ppm
phos = 2613 ppm
moly = 180 ppm

81. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Lucas 5W30, API SN, conventional = 51,545 psi
zinc = 1565 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1277 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 15 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The psi value here is a “breath taking” 44% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

82. “Edelbrock Zinc Additive” added to Motorcraft 5W30, API SN, synthetic = 50,202 psi
zinc = 1680 ppm (up 573 ppm)
phos = 1275 ppm (up 517 ppm)
moly = 89 ppm (up 15 ppm)

The psi value here is 22% LOWER than this oil had BEFORE the Edelbrock Zinc Additive was added to it. Adding Edelbrock Zinc Additive SIGNIFICANTLY REDUCED this oil’s wear prevention capability. Just the opposite of what was promised. Buyer beware.

83. 30wt Lucas Break-In Oil conventional = 49,455 psi
zinc = 4483 ppm
phos = 3660 ppm
moly = 3 ppm

540 RAT
Member SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers)

 

[saforwardlook]

There is a really long thread on the Corvette website (maybe where you got that list) that discredits the testing above as pretty much meaningless. But it is bantered about like the best data on earth. Who knows? Still gonna use Brad Penn on your 390 truck motor break in based on those results? And the guys buying Royal Purple should really cry given what that stuff costs.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

on a site note: I had never a dead camshaft due to the missing ZDDP in an old engine nor do I know of someone that had it. If it comes to fresh rebuilt engines with new cams everything changes completely. It feels like every fifth new cam is dying quickly.

Carsten

If your sticking to stock rebuilds and springs after the break in it really should be okay but why chance it, the zddp is a build up and break down process, builds up when there is lots of oil flying around (at 2000+ rpm) and gets broken back down at low speed (idle) this and getting the lifters to rotate is the reason you break in a flat tappet cam at 2000-2500 rpm, lots of oil flying around. So the more zddp in the oil the more quickly it can build back up to protect again when at idle, obviously the higher and more aggressive the cam and springs the more important this becomes, also old cams that have spent many a years basking in high zddp are more resistant than a brand new can that has none and trying to accumulate a layer with lower zddp in the oil to start with. Form your own opinion from that, different requirements dictate oil.

 

[detmatt]

We pay hundreds of dollars per year on car insurance, what's another $25 bucks per case once a year for each car?

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

If your sticking to stock rebuilds and springs after the break in it really should be okay but why chance it, the zddp is a build up and break down process, builds up when there is lots of oil flying around (at 2000+ rpm) and gets broken back down at low speed (idle) this and getting the lifters to rotate is the reason you break in a flat tappet cam at 2000-2500 rpm, lots of oil flying around. So the more zddp in the oil the more quickly it can build back up to protect again when at idle, obviously the higher and more aggressive the cam and springs the more important this becomes, also old cams that have spent many a years basking in high zddp are more resistant than a brand new can that has none and trying to accumulate a layer with lower zddp in the oil to start with. Form your own opinion from that, different requirements dictate oil.

Most of the new/rebuild engines that die are of course stroker engines with different springs than stock built for use in street machines

Carsten

 

[tbm3fan]

We pay hundreds of dollars per year on car insurance, what's another $25 bucks per case once a year for each car?

Actually Hagerty only charges me $30 per year for the Polara since it is one of five.

 

[tbm3fan]

There is a really long thread on the Corvette website (maybe where you got that list) that discredits the testing above as pretty much meaningless. But it is bantered about like the best data on earth. Who knows? Still gonna use Brad Penn on your 390 truck motor break in based on those results? And the guys buying Royal Purple should really cry given what that stuff costs.

From this guy

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Agree or not, I'm not reposting that gigantic thing but they do mention that adding a additive to oil is not a cure all for oil that does not work in our old cars, which I said something similar in another oil thread here now I will stop before I hurt my arm patting myself on the back.;)