Oh crap, I just changed my oil with a low-zinc oil, what should I do?

bronze turbine

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I bought some Chevron Delo 400 oil on sale. It's for diesels so I thought it would be great for my 1968 Chrysler 300 with a 440 TNT. Now I see that it's a low zinc oil. I'm panicking. I haven't even driven the car on the road yet, just moved it from one garage to another across my yard, but I'm thinking I should change the oil again before I take it on any trips. As an alternative, I could add a zinc supplement to the oil. Any thoughts on this? What is a really good quality zinc supplement I can buy at Autozone?
Thanks!
 
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I would add a bottle of STP Oil Treatment. It will provide the needed zinc, but will also provide lubrication that clings to engine surfaces providing protection from dry startups. This will provoke opposing opinions, but I have been using this in every engine I have owned for over 40 years with great results. Lindsay
 
I just looked it up and it's 817 PPM.

There are folks that say 800 is OK for old cars with stock cams and I've read that the additives really don't mix well enough to give the protection they claim.

@fury fan has done some research on the subject. Post #10 in this thread. Replacement Aftermarket Camshaft for 383-4 and 440HP engines

Perhaps he can chime in on this.

IMHO, you could just run it and change it early... Or just drain it and use it for your lawn mower etc.
 
In one respect, as you have a well-used and conditioned cam/lifter set, as 1000ppm is generally considered to be the low spec for zddp, 800 is not that far off. Rislone has a decent zddp additive, but many of the additives are 1qt in size, to replace one quart of motor oil, but some are only 16oz, so that might be something to look for.

With a stock cam and the stock springs, it is very possible that nothing will happen. IF it will make you feel better, then chase some higher zddp oil and change the oil. Keep the drained oil for a newer vehicle. Change the filter too, for good measure.

In any event, there should be enough residual zddp worn-into the cam and lifters for adequate protection for at least 1K miles or so. Just my suspicion. In other words, NO immediate damage.

Which Delo 400 product did you get?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
I bought some Chevron Delo 400 oil on sale. It's for diesels so I thought it would be great for my 1968 Chrysler 300 with a 440 TNT. Now I see that it's a low zinc oil. I'm panicking. I haven't even driven the car on the road yet, just moved it from one garage to another across my yard, but I'm thinking I should change the oil again before I take it on any trips. As an alternative, I could add a zinc supplement to the oil. Any thoughts on this? What is a really good quality zinc supplement I can buy at Autozone?
Thanks!

For peace of mind, just go to NAPA and buy six quarts of Valvoline VR1 Racing oil and change your oil. Top it off with a NAPA Gold oil filter and be done with it.

VR1 Racing High Performance High Zinc Motor Oil - Valvoline™ Global
 
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I would change it and save the Delo for another vehicle, no need to change filter if it was new.
I do have 6 bottles of the Rizlone zinc add from when it was difficult to get correct oil here.
 
For peace of mind, just go to NAPA and buy six quarts of Valvoline VR1 Racing oil and change your oil. Top it off with a NAPA Gold oil filter and be done with it.

VR1 Racing High Performance High Zinc Motor Oil - Valvoline™ Global

Or. . . Go to Summit Racing and order six quarts of high zinc Penn Grade 15W-40 and a WIX oil filter (same as NAPA Gold). This is the oil I run in my '66 300 TNT.

PennGrade 1 71586 PennGrade 1 Partial Synthetic Blend High Performance Motor Oil | Summit Racing

1966 CHRYSLER 300 Wix Filters 51515 WIX Filters Oil Filters | Summit Racing
 
You’re not racing. Grab a bottle of Risolone.
Says it boosts it to 1700-1800 ppm. If you are already starting at 800, even if it is over stating the ZDDP. You should be plenty good to go until the next oil change.
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Back a while back (which is really more like about 35 years ago!), Delo and Rotella were the two go-to brands of oil for owners/drivers of diesel-powered trucks. In some markets, Exxon XD-3 was similar. Those brands were usually available where "diesel drivers" bought fuel or got service, even for diesel farm tractors. 1400ppm zddp was "normal", although some now claim that the zddp in diesel motor oil is not the same zddp as gas-engine motor oil needs to have.

As over-the-road diesel engines started to have tighter emissions controls (for newer model year engines, at the time), the "C_-_" designations got a bit higher in letters and numbers. The zddp level was posted in the oil forums as dropping to 1300ppm zddp. Some people screamed "NO ZDDP in those newer oils", although the zddp level was still very high in them. As the gas motor oil went from "SL" into "SM" (with 800ppm zddp as the upper spec limit), more hand-wringing happened, by observation. Later formulations of diesel motor oil got closer to 1200ppm, with greater levels of detergents in them. Still above the "SL" upper spec level of 1000ppm zddp.

In the 1990s, after the "SM" spec oils were all that was normally-available, I sold a customer a new Chevy Crate Motor, a ZZ430 big block with an EFI set-up on it. I pulled the instruction sheet out of the box of goodies stashed under the intake manifold to look at oil recommendations for the care and longevity of that motor, as it had an agressive camshaft in it. It said to use "SM" motor oil in it. Now, this was an engine which had been "fire tested" (initial run-in on a dyno stand for 30 minutes, then went through the two minute final test, and then crated for shipment).

Prior to this, VW had been having issues with their automotive diesel engines, which used one camshaft lobe to run the high-pressure diesel fuel pump. If the recommended-spec oil was not used, within about 10K miles, the camshaft would be ruined. Euro OEMs use "OEM Approvals" rather than "API" ratings for their motor oil, fwiw. Many USA owners only knew about "viscosity" rather than these "minor" things, by observation. Learning was an expensive lesson for them.

As normal, "Better Living Through Chemistry" happened and Amsoil came out with their Z-Rod oil as niche brands as Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs' Driven oil came out with higher doses of zddp in them. As Mobil 1 added (or I became aware of) their Turbo Diesel and Truck syn motor oils, too. Delo upgraded ot "IsoSyn" technology along about this time, too. Sometime through this period of time, a friend in another car club sent me the file/SAE paper on GM's testing of SM-rated motor oil on a flat tappet engine (at that time, the only flat tappet engines they were producing were Chevy crate motors, as I recall). Their "measure" was the weight of the valve lifters. More wear meant less weight. Their data indicated that with the SM oils, "weight loss" was the same as it was for prior ratings of non-syn motor oil, which validated the 800ppm (SM) oil as being fine with a flat tappet engine.

Now, as this was done on a production engine of theirs, it ALSO meant the Parkerizing treatment of the cam lobes was OEM-spec, too. Something which was not addressed, per se, in any other comments on cam lobe wear! My observation was somewhat proven when a major cam company started to offer "Additional Parkerizing" as an option on their camshaft orders! NO admission that their prior Parkerizing might not have been to OEM levels, but offering MORE Parkerizing to apparently get to that level. Interesting side issue, to me! This same camshaft company, when the issue of lobe wear arose, recommended "Either Rotella T or Synthetic motor oil" for their camshafts. Later, of course, every cam brand came out with "oil treatments" to use with their cams, on a regular basis, to ensure longevity.

The cam lobe issues first arose from the rebuilder industry (using aftermarket stock replacement cams) and the race engine builder communities. ALL using aftermarket parts, by observation. Which, to me, raised the red flags about the Parkerizing treatments on those parts not being to the OEM level of things.

Now, back in the 1950s when hot rodders were getting their factory cams "reground" for more lift and duration, no real mention of cam lobe longevity, from what I could determine from listening to older hot rodders talk about things. Apparently some of these re-grinders were better than others, though. This was also a time when motor oil was inexpensive and could be changed more often, if needed. There were NO specs about zddp levels, than any commoner knew about, back then. Probably just that some oil brands were better than others. Sometime, during these times, Valvoline seemed to align itself with the "high performance" realm of things with their active sponsorship of major NHRA (and probably others) drag racing events. Look at the spectator stands and you'll probably see large Valvoline banners attached to them somewhere in the picture.

Looking at the older oil analysis reports I've found online, from the later 1960s or so, the zddp levels were all over the board, with FEW to NONE getting anywhere close to 800ppm zddp. But consider too, that OEM recommended oil change intervals were in the 3000-4000mile range, too. A few brands allegedly used the longer-chain molecule Pennsylvania crude oil for their allegedly better products. But as chemistry evolved, those smaller companies were bought out/merged into other bigger companies/brands and that orientation disappeared. Or they couldn't afford to keep up with the "super oils" of the later 1960s, when 10W-50 viscosity ranges appeared.

In modern times, most oil brands mention "superior base-oils" in their formulations, but keep which amounts of which group of base-oils as their trade secret. Obviously, some might be better than others, with the additive package tailored to the final product. An additive pack which includes "zddp" and "moly".

Here are some things to check for in seeking a high or higher-zddp level oil. NO GM Dexos approval. DO look for multi-viscosity oils with the upper viscosity number of "40" or "50" or a "straight-weight" 30 . . . ALL out of the normal OEM viscosity ranges for current production gasoline vehicles. DO look for the word "Euro" as related to the oil's viscosity, too. Castrol still makes some syn motor oils with the "SL" rating, too, which usually carry some of the older Euro OEM approvals, in the 5W-30 viscosity.

A word of caution, though, it originally was designed to be a diesel-spec viscosity range with higher zddp level, but the 15W-40 viscosity has NOW been used for normal gasoline, lower zddp, motor oils. Not sure why, but it has happened. So look for the "C_-_" diesel motor oil API ratings to make sure you get the prior higher-zddp oils. Additionally, the "Rotella Gas Truck" motor oils are NOT high zddp oils as the current Rotella T-_ oils are. On the plus side, the Rotella T-_ oils (from straight-weight, blended syn T-5, and full syn T-6) are still the higher zddp level oils, with a diesel engine rating.

Other than diesel oils, "Racing Oil" is another indicator of higher zddp levels, usually to about 1400ppm. Which includes Valvoline VR-series oils, Amsoil Z-Rod, some Mobil 1 products, many Brad Penn, and several Joe Gibbs' Driven oils. For a normal street motor oil, 1400ppm zddp seems to be the higher limit without sacrificing the needed detergent levels of the motor oil for 4000+ mile oil change intervals.

Sorry for the length. Thanks for your time,
CBODY67
 
just for a note on the "euro spec" oil...that all started back in the 80's with audi 5000 turbos....the turbo got the oil so hot it burned and formed little carbonized particles...which then proceded to clog the overly fine screen in the oil pickup and destroyed the bearings from oil starvation...this led to VW's series of "500" oils...502, 505, and various supercessions....stuff like Castrol euro spec is 505.00, the latest "burn resistant"oil for turbo application thats catylitic converter friendly...when VW introduced the "pumpe duse" diesel in '04 it had cam issues from the extra lifter that pumped the injector...so they came up with 505.01 spec which probably has more ZDDP but is NOT easy to find as that engine was discontinued in 2006...so i really doubt any euro spec oil you find at your LFS will have above average ZDDP....why they didnt call the diesel 507 or something less confusing than 505.01 is beyond me...
 
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I just looked it up and it's 817 PPM.

There are folks that say 800 is OK for old cars with stock cams and I've read that the additives really don't mix well enough to give the protection they claim.

@fury fan has done some research on the subject. Post #10 in this thread. Replacement Aftermarket Camshaft for 383-4 and 440HP engines

Perhaps he can chime in on this.

IMHO, you could just run it and change it early... Or just drain it and use it for your lawn mower etc.
Thanks for the callout, @Big_John.
For a disclaimer to all - I'm not an expert, I just read for a few hours on BITOG as I was trying to find out if the latest Rotella was still suitable, and I learned some things along the way. Post#10 linked above has some more info.

If it were a standard 440 with small cam (and therefore standard valvesprings), I would say that the Delo is OK for 1 usage. Coincidentally, I bought an oil-change's worth of that Delo 400 by 'mistake' simply because it is a well-regarded brand and was diesel-rated, and I'll use it eventually. for all my cars have standard-perf springs.
With a TNT and the stiffer springs, it is probably OK, but why risk it vs the $35 loss of oil/filter? (as noted, you could re-task the Delo, if you have something that can use 15w40, that is).


As for oil additives -
Years ago I worked at an automatic transmission test facility, and had numerous discussions with teh guys in the chemistry and metallurgy lab.
Learned a bit about sealing properties, base oils vs additives, oxidation + how and why wet clutches burned, how acid attacks bushings, etc.
Wish I could remember it all.

One thing I remember was a discussion about mixing stuff in with oil. 'As long as you know as much chemistry as the chemists at the oil company and the additive company, you should be fine' - or something like that.
With that said, lots of guys have used lots additives for lots of years - but an oil with an additive will not be as good as an oil blended with that chemistry/specs straight from the oil company. Does it make a difference - probably not to any of us.


...
A word of caution, though, it originally was designed to be a diesel-spec viscosity range with higher zddp level, but the 15W-40 viscosity has NOW been used for normal gasoline, lower zddp, motor oils. Not sure why, but it has happened. So look for the "C_-_" diesel motor oil API ratings to make sure you get the prior higher-zddp oils. Additionally, the "Rotella Gas Truck" motor oils are NOT high zddp oils as the current Rotella T-_ oils are. On the plus side, the Rotella T-_ oils (from straight-weight, blended syn T-5, and full syn T-6) are still the higher zddp level oils, with a diesel engine rating.

This was an interesting thing I read on BITOG. Any diesel oil that is also rated for gasoline usage (or was it big truck diesel vs small truck diesel?), that carries both the C* and S* ratings must have the zinc levels of the lower-rated oil. So avoid them if possible. As @CBODY67 mentioned, the current CK-spec Rotellas are still high-zinc.
 
And although this comment doesn't apply to teh OP's TNT, here's an additional clarifier we should have when talking about zinc in oil:

Zinc level is generally only a concern with flat-tappet cams, and of greater concern with 'higher' than stock valvespring pressures. (I've never seen anyone say a low-threshold spring rating where the concern begins)
Modern engines, or older ones retrofitted to a roller cam, don't have this concern.
 
@bronze turbine no need to panic, and I wouldn't do anything. While Delo isn't ideal for gas engines I wouldn't worry about the zinc.

I sometimes put the Zinc concentrate additive into my truck's motor (flathead 6) but never worry about it on the V8s. For increasing the zinc specifically, I like ZDDP because it's a concentrate and doesn't severely alter the additive recipe for the oil already in the engine. The thing with other additives is that you're dumping in a large amount of other crap you don't need - just to get the zinc. Like what @fury fan mentioned each bottle of oil is formulated by chemists to work as-is.

I disagree with using racing oil, because it's made for just that - a racing environment, which means oil changes every few hours, and not ideal for an intermittently driven engine. it's low detergent, usually.

Delo isn't ideal but will be better than racing oil. Diesel oils are very high detergent to deal with all that extra soot....

I put about 70k miles on a 440 in my previous NY, and just used regular NAPA brand or Valvoline 10w-30. No additives at all.
 
I strongly concur that it's better to buy oil with "all the stuff, or enough stuff, already in it", unless there is something you're trying to fix with additives (as in a detergent additive as the old Alemite CD-2 oil detergent additive I used to buy). No need to add to the cost of an oil change with a $20.00 additive on top of the cost of the basic oil and filter, fwiw.

In an older post on BITOG, it was mentioned that just adding a zddp additive to an otherwise good motor oil, for even more zddp, would compromise the detergency additives in the base oil. Some DRIVEN racing oil specs about 3000ppm of zddp, with the note "Not for Street Use", as I recall. In such an oil with such high zddp, no real need for the normal level of detergents in the additive package as their oil change interval will be like 500 miles or so.

Valvoline has different levels of VR-1 oil. The straight-weights referenced above are more racing oriented than the VR-1 multi-weight oils, or the motorcycle VR-1 oils. But they all offer about the same zddp levels, I believe.

In the API prior rating system, there was a loophole which would allow the 1400ppm zddp in diesel oils (like Rotella T6 5W-40) to carry the diesel rating and a "car" rating. That loophole closed about 2 years ago, so no more dual-rating oils. I have seen no evidence in Shell changing the T6 (or T5 or others) formulation because of that, as the diesel customer was their primary customer for that oil, with the "car" customer secondary.

On the "Euro" side of things, Castrol sells a "black bottle" EDGE 5w-40 syn oil which meets the VW 505.00 approval (for their diesel motors) and the VW 502.00 approval for their gasoline motors. That particular oil carries an API "SL" rating. They have other products which carry the 502.00 and 505.00 VW approvals, too, but primarily for 15+ year old engines, it seems.

When I started watching/browsing BITOG regularly about 15 years ago, over time, I determined that there were a good number of "oil people" in there, who knew a huge amount about chemistry and had intimate knowledge of the various base oil groups. Plus how it all interacted together to make the final product. Back in the days of "German Castrol" and its green color, made in Germany, which tested out better than almost every other brand of oil enough that many gave it "Nectar of the Gods" status. Not the same "Nectar of the Gods" which is an adult beverage!!!

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
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