SF-66TC's update you've all been waiting for LOL!!

[SF-66TC]

Hey Gents!

First of all I’d like to give a shout out to all those folks that helped with either technical expertise, information and/or recommendations; 330dTA, MrMoparCHP, 70bigblockdodge, big_john, cbarge, moparwagon, saylor, saforwardlook, commando1, cantflip, detmatt, rumpfox, Zymurgy, stubs300, livininharrow… sorry if I missed anyone -

I started installing upgrades to car in June of 2015 and finally finished all of it this past weekend. It all began with a '73 front disc conversion, then a rear sway bar, going back and replacing all the front end bushings, upgrading to tubular control arms and finally ending with having my steering box rebuilt by Firm Feel.

I created different posts and got a lot of good advice and feedback from many of you. Now that the upgrades are all complete I wanted to give an update. Since it was easier for me I decided to integrate the updates in a single post. Hopefully this suffices for y'all.

The headings of the posts fell under 3 main postings; Steering Box Help! , With or Without CAP , and ’66 t&c. There were some others, but it seems during the FCBO migration those earlier posts got deleted.

I intially wrote everything thing in this thread, but when I was finished I got an error message indicating there was a 10,000 word limit LOL!!! That said, I've just included a synopsis here, but at the bottom of this post is a link to the more complete write-up.

My overall synopsis of all my upgrades -

Brakes - Highly recommend converting over to Front Disc Brakes. ’73 setups are the preferred, but 69 -72 spindles would work just fine too. The early spindles are more plentiful than the ’73’s and the good news is that pricing for the early rotors for those spindles are down to $49.95/ea for a 11.75” Bendix 7012R rotor!

Even though Ma Mopar didn’t require/use prop valves in their earlier disc brake cars, I would suggest Installing one anyway. The prop valve is a piece of cake to install. All it requires is to plumb it in-between the master cylinder (front port) and the rear brake line. pmschmitt posted a Wilwood Prop valve that IMO would be an excellent choice. Their bracket is extra, but makes the install modern and clean. Amazon's got the valve for $69.99 w/FREE 1-Day Shipping with Prime!
Amazon product ASIN B003LT619Q

Suspension - I’d say 99% of most everyone’s upper and lower control arms and sway bar bushings are shot. I guarantee that if you looked at them you’d see they are either deformed and/or deteriorated. I'm most proud of my front suspension refurb - she's so pretty!

Rebuilt Suspension - POR15 & POR15 Chassis Paint

For increased handling install Firm Feels Rear Sway Bar - Big Improvement!

Shock Pricing - The best price I’ve found for RCD Bilstein shocks is from PST or if you like Koni’s check out Classic Garage. They often have seasonal specials with discounts from 20% - 25% and at times with Free Shipping. They have a Facebook page Classicgarage.com They currently have a 20% off sale which started March 1st.


Steering Box - Forget the other vendors and just go with FIRM FEEL and ask for Dick. From this experience a Stage-1 build is perfect for a “C” Body for street/highway driving. IMO it’s better to have Firm Feel rebuild your own box rather than someone else’ core. Either pay the extra $$ to have them Powder Coat it or paint it yourself.

Electronic Iginition - Pertronix units will run you around $150 for the igniter and coil whereas for $50 more you can get a complete New Electronic Distributor and ECU from Summit. To me it just makes better sense that if you had to pull your original dizzy out to install a Pertronix Igniter anyway, why not just get a complete setup like Summit’s and start fresh. The Summit unit is easy - Other than installing the dizzy all you need to do is run one wire to the (-) side of the coil, one wire to the “run" side of the ballast and a connector to the dizzy. Both wires and dizzy connector are included in the harness. Use die-electric grease for ease of attaching the harness connector to the ECU and also on the Bottom of the ECU for heat. Most important is to run a good ground lead to the ECU. I installed my ECU on the passenger fender. I may change the location, but for now it’s fine for me.

May not be a desired place to mount here for y'all, but it was convenient!

A more detailed write-up can be found at the link below

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/433231/Microsoft Word - FCBO SF-66TC Upgrade Follow-Up.pdf

 

[cantflip]

nfortunately this is a Mopar forum only

With the short attention spans so many of us have???

I constantly have to scroll back to the beginning just to remember what was the original topic.

BTW, thank you for the update now that the job is done... You have become a valuable resource for other looking to do the same thing... Brake and suspension repairs and/or upgrades are a hot topic for any old car... they almost all need some help in those areas.

 

[saforwardlook]

So your new Firm Feel box is precise on center with no slop, even assist through the full range of turning, and no leaks - first time out of the box? That is good news then. Why do you suggest sending you own box to be rebuilt - was yours a low mileage box or what about it makes that suggestion important to you? Do you know if they are able to refurbish worn gears somehow, or what technique do they use to give a precise on center feel again? Thanks for the wrap up of all your work, as it will be valuable for a lot of us.

 

[detmatt]

Your new suspension looks fantastic!

 

[SF-66TC]

So your new Firm Feel box is precise on center with no slop, even assist through the full range of turning, and no leaks - first time out of the box? That is good news then. Why do you suggest sending you own box to be rebuilt - was yours a low mileage box or what about it makes that suggestion important to you? Do you know if they are able to refurbish worn gears somehow, or what technique do they use to give a precise on center feel again? Thanks for the wrap up of all your work, as it will be valuable for a lot of us.

Not sure what you mean by "precise on center with no slop" and "even assist through the full range of turning" - can you be more specific so I can answer you correctly?

With just the pre-alignment settings the car tracks pretty straight with just a slight drift to the right, but that's how the car felt before I dove into the suspension.

As far as slop I don't feel any... steering feel is a bit firmer than stock and feels much better - I can actually feel the road. I mentioned I don't have full range of turning to the LEFT because of my pitmans position. The alignment shop will either need to adjust the toe settings or I'll reposition the pitman arm. It's a good thing I got the pitman without blind splines so it can be positioned anywhere (360 degrees) on the sector shaft.

I only suggested rebuilding your own box just for the sake of knowing what you'll be getting back unlike my experience with Steer & Gear. I can't really comment on FF's technique on refurbing a worm gear. I would assume they would just replace it, but whether that would be new or a good used one I have no idea. When FF replaced my sector shaft it was a used part, but like I was told it was not 100% exact as the one I had. That in part was the reason for the limited turning range to the LEFT. It's off by the amount of my steering wheels position which is 1/4 turn. After I installed the box I had 3 turns lock to lock which I thought was correct - I didn't check it before I removed the box. After speaking with Dick at Firm Feel he said I should have 3.5 turns lock to lock which answers why I'm off on my LEFT turn. If I reposition the pitman one or two splines to the RIGHT I should have equal range on both sides.

 

[mr. fix it]

Thanks for the write up on the projects here! The disc brake conversion is what I plan to do in the future. Great stuff!

I wonder if the red fuel had Marvel Mystery Oil added to it? it is read in colour and has great benefits to the fuel system of these old cars.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Thanks and enjoy, I am a firm believer in rebuilding your stuff swap/ reman always comes back to bite me in the ***

 

[saforwardlook]

Not sure what you mean by "precise on center with no slop" and "even assist through the full range of turning" - can you be more specific so I can answer you correctly?

With just the pre-alignment settings the car tracks pretty straight with just a slight drift to the right, but that's how the car felt before I dove into the suspension.

As far as slop I don't feel any... steering feel is a bit firmer than stock and feels much better - I can actually feel the road. I mentioned I don't have full range of turning to the LEFT because of my pitmans position. The alignment shop will either need to adjust the toe settings or I'll reposition the pitman arm. It's a good thing I got the pitman without blind splines so it can be positioned anywhere (360 degrees) on the sector shaft.

I only suggested rebuilding your own box just for the sake of knowing what you'll be getting back unlike my experience with Steer & Gear. I can't really comment on FF's technique on refurbing a worm gear. I would assume they would just replace it, but whether that would be new or a good used one I have no idea. When FF replaced my sector shaft it was a used part, but like I was told it was not 100% exact as the one I had. That in part was the reason for the limited turning range to the LEFT. It's off by the amount of my steering wheels position which is 1/4 turn. After I installed the box I had 3 turns lock to lock which I thought was correct - I didn't check it before I removed the box. After speaking with Dick at Firm Feel he said I should have 3.5 turns lock to lock which answers why I'm off on my LEFT turn. If I reposition the pitman one or two splines to the RIGHT I should have equal range on both sides.

I meant that the steering would track on course just as you intended without needing minor corrections constantly. Newer cars have a very "precise" on center feel that gives you greater confidence as you drive them in fast moving traffic with narrow lanes and congestion, being able to keep them going just where you intended with little correction ever needed. Our old C bodies will never be able to meet the level of precision as the newer rack and pinion set ups, but I sure wouldn't mind if they were a lot closer to how they were when new from the factory at least. I actually have a couple NOS boxes that I will be using on some of my upcoming restorations. Regarding the even assist, I only mention that because two boxes I received from Firm Feel in the distant past (seemingly remedied now based on you latest experience) had a variable level of assist when turning the wheel through the full range. In other words, there would be some spots in the turning where the steering would briefly be harder and then go back to being easy to turn. Never could understand how that could happen, but it probably doesn't matter any more as it seems Firm Feel turned the corner some time back. Unfortunately, Steer & Gear seems to have gone the other way.

 

[SF-66TC]

Update: Firm Feel Tubular Upper Control Arms & Stage-1 Steering Box Rebuild

Took the car in for an alignment and all went well. As I mentioned I had Firm Feel rebuild my own steering box. The threads of my sector shaft were stripped so Firm Feel replaced it. After installing the box with the pitman arm installed correctly, the steering center was off. I contacted FF and explained the situation and was told that not all sector shafts were 100% exactly the same and usually a simple toe adjustment would remedy the issue.

NOTE: Essentially there are 4-FLAT splines on both the sector shaft and pitman arm. They are equal distance from one another at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions. Though the pitman can be installed in any of the 4 different positions, only 1 of those FLAT splined positions is the correct one. You may have heard the term "Master Spline" - that is the 1 FLAT spline that 's being referred to. The correct alignment position of the Master Spline and the pitman arm is for both to face directly to the rear of the vehicle. The sector shaft itself only rotates 180 degrees total, thusly from center it would rotate 90 degrees to the Left and 90 degrees to the Right. As a reference, if you look directly down at the steering box from the engine compartment the pitman's arm should be pointing at 3 o'clock. For a RIGHT turn it will sweep to 12 o'clock and for a LEFT turn it will sweep to 6 o'clock. The 12 and 6 o'clock positions may be exaggerated slightly, but you get the idea. If you understand this example you can't miss installing the pitman correctly on the shaft.

Since the sector shaft that was installed in my box was different than the original, the rebuilt box would have been rendered useless to me if I ONLY had the 4-FLAT splined pitman. Even though FF stated a toe adjustment would remedy the issue, there simply would not have been enough toe adjustment to compensate for difference. These boxes have a lock to lock of 3.5 steering wheel revolutions where the sector shaft itself only turns 1/2 of its own rotation. The sector shaft I got was two splines off from the Master Splines positioning. The sector shaft has roughly 18 splines total. If 9 of those splines equates 3.5 steering wheel revolutions, then the 2 splines equates to almost 1 entire revolution - that's a lot!

My saving grace was that the pitman I got was from RareParts. It did NOT have any FLAT splines and therefor could be positioned anywhere 360 degrees on the sector shaft. I did not know this at the time until I was ready to install it on the steering box. Thinking RareParts sent me the wrong one I called them about the missing FLAT splines. I was informed that the pitman I purchased was the correct one and was purposely designed without the 4 FLAT splines so it could accommodate various other vehicles steering boxes.

I initially tried to reposition it myself, but in order to do so I had to undo both tie-rod ends and drop the center link off both the pitman and the idler arm, remove the pitman and reposition it 1 spline over, bolt everything back together and check the steering. Having done all that when rebuilding the suspension it was no big deal, but for the life of me I could not get the center-link off the pitman arm. I tried repositioning the pitman with it attached to the center-link, but I felt like a contortionist and it wasn't going to happen. I even removed the pitman with the center-link attached and took it over to the vise and tried knock it off using a pickle fork and my tie-rod removal tool, but it wouldn't budge. Since I didn't have the proper tool to get the center-link off the pitman, I decided just to let the alignment shop take care of it.

It took the alignment shop two tries to reposition the pitman correctly. It was an easy task for them because their rack has the rotating plates under the front tires that allows them to EASILY position the wheels anywhere they want by hand. For them all they had to do was pop the pitman off the sector shaft, reposition both wheels straight, and pop the pitman back on - EASY!!! I had thought of that and had tried it again before taking it to the shop, but there didn't appear to be enough leeway to drop the c-link down that far because the other end of the c-link was attached to the idler arm. I did give it a shot and un-bolted both the pitman and idler arm together and dropped everything down attached, but all those components together were pretty darn heavy. Trying to maneuver everything around while laying on my back I again thought, "FORGET IT, I'll let the alignment shop deal with this."

All said and done - I'm happy to say with Firm Feel's Tubular Control Arms I got +3.5 degrees of Caster, Camber set at -.5 degrees and my Toe is set at .13 degrees.

Firm Feels Stage-1 rebuild, said to be slightly firmer than the police box is a little firmer than stock. There is a slight resistance in steering and I can actually feel a bit of the road unlike the non-resistant pinky feel of the stock setting. Due to the additional Caster I can feel the car wants to track straight. The firmness of the steering is really apparent when the vehicle is NOT in motion. In motion there is some firmness, but IMO not enough. I think a Stage-2 or 3 would have been better.

To address Saforwardlook's concerns of "precise on center steering with no slop" & "even assist".

I think there's that feeling of always correcting because these steering boxes don't seem to have any free-play in them. Without that the car simply goes in whatever direction the steering wheel moved no matter how slight a movement. With free-play there's a certain amount of movement that can be made without the car reacting ie; moving in your seat, hitting a bump etc... I also think having these humongous skinny steering wheels don't help the situation either. Steering wheels of today are a lot thicker and allows a better grip of the wheel. If one were to change these large skinny wheels to a thicker smaller diameter one I'm most certain you could feel the road better, but I'm not sure if it would heighten or lessen the sensitivity. Without the free-play it stands to reason that a smaller wheel would react even quicker with the slightest movement which might be worse yet.

I'd have to say that the increased caster of the tubular control arms did remedy some of the precise on steering because the car wants to track straight. There still is that feel of needing to make corrections, just not as bad. It'll take some getting use to like anything else. I do think a Stage-3 would really help though simply due to the firmer steering. If this boat could steer like the rack and pinion of my Volvo S90 it would be a dream, but I know it will never get that way no matter what I do. I actually thought rebuilding the entire front suspension would have helped, but it's only gotten me a much firmer ride than I like. I preferred how the car just floated down the highway before. I'm thinking it might actually just be the gas bilsteins I installed - I may go back to the old Monroe's and see if that's it.

As for the "even assist" - it is there throughout the entire turning radius so that it right on the money.

Regarding Firm Feel Steering Box rebuilds - If you have them rebuild your own box and don't need your sector shaft replaced you will not run into the situation I did. BUT, if you just get an exchanged box there's no telling whether the replacement box had its sector shaft replaced and if it was a complete match to yours. If you just opt for a replacement box and send yours in for the core I would suggest you get the RareParts Diamond Series Pitman without the 4-FLAT splines. BUT the only other problem to make note of is This pitman is ONLY available for Power Steering units.

 

[cantflip]

Update: Firm Feel Tubular Upper Control Arms & Stage-1 Steering Box Rebuild

Took the car in for an alignment and all went well. As I mentioned I had Firm Feel rebuild my own steering box. The threads of my sector shaft were stripped so Firm Feel replaced it. After installing the box with the pitman arm installed correctly, the steering center was off. I contacted FF and explained the situation and was told that not all sector shafts were 100% exactly the same and usually a simple toe adjustment would remedy the issue.

NOTE: Essentially there are 4-FLAT splines on both the sector shaft and pitman arm. They are equal distance from one another at the 12, 3, 6, and 9 o'clock positions. Though the pitman can be installed in any of the 4 different positions, only 1 of those FLAT splined positions is the correct one and is referred to as the Master Spline. Due to the amount of rotation allowed on the sector shaft there is ONLY one way the pitman can be installed. You would know this right away once you installed the pitman on the sector shaft and rotated it. It only rotates 180 degrees, not 360.

Since the sector shaft that was installed in my box was different than the original, if I ONLY had the 4-FLAT splined pitman, the rebuilt box would have been useless to me. Even though FF stated a toe adjustment would remedy the issue, there simply would not have been enough toe adjustment to compensate for difference. These boxes have a lock to lock of 3.5 steering wheel revolutions where the sector shaft itself only turns 1/2 of its own rotation. The sector shaft I got was two splines off from the Master Splines positioning. The sector shaft has roughly 18 splines total. If 9 of those splines equates 3.5 steering wheel revolutions, then the 2 splines equates to almost 1 entire steering wheel revolution - that's a lot!

My saving grace was that the pitman I got was from RareParts and it did NOT have any FLAT splines and therefor could be positioned anywhere 360 degrees on the sector shaft. I did not know that at the time until I was about to install it on the steering box. I had called RareParts about the missing FLAT splines thinking they sent me the wrong one, but was told the pitman I purchased was designed without the 4 FLAT splines so it could accommodate various other vehicles steering boxes.

It took two tries for the alignment guys to reposition the pitman correctly, but it was an easy task. I'm happy to say with Firm Feel's Tubular Control Arms I got +3.5 degrees of Caster, Camber set at -.5 degrees and my Toe is set at .13 degrees.

Firm Feels Stage-1 rebuild, said to be slightly firmer than the police box, is a little firmer than stock. There is a slight resistance in steering unlike the non-resistant pinky feel from stock and I can actually feel a bit of the road whereas before I could not. Due to the additional Caster I can feel the car wants to track straight. The firmness of the steering is really apparent when the vehicle is NOT in motion. In motion there is some firmness, but I would like more so a Stage-2 or 3 would have been better. I think it also makes a difference that these C-body steering wheels have such a big diameter. If one were to change it to a smaller diameter wheel I think you could feel the road better.

To address Saforwardlook's concerns of "precise on center steering with no slop" & "even assist".

I think there's that feeling of always correcting because these steering boxes don't seem to have any free-play in them. Without that the car simply goes in whatever direction the steering wheel moved no matter how slight a movement. With free-play there's a certain amount of movement that can be made without the car reacting ie; moving in your seat, hitting a bump etc... I also think having these humongous skinny steering wheels don't help the situation either. I think if they were a bit fatter it would help. Putting on a smaller wheel may help with the road feel, but without the free-play steering a smaller wheel would react with the slightest movement which might be worse yet.

I'd have to say that the increased caster of the tubular control arms did remedy some of the precise on steering because the car wants to track straight. There still is that feel of needing to make corrections, just not as bad. It'll take some getting use to like anything else. I do think a Stage-3 would really help though simply due to the firmer steering. If this boat could steer like the rack and pinion of my Volvo S90 it would be a dream, but I know it will never get that way no matter what I do. I actually thought rebuilding the entire front suspension would have helped, but it's only gotten me a much firmer ride than I like. I preferred how the car just floated down the highway before. I'm thinking it might actually just be the gas bilsteins I installed - I may go back to the old Monroe's and see if that's it.

As for the "even assist" - it is there throughout the entire turning radius so that it right on the money.

Regarding Firm Feel Steering Box rebuilds - If you have them rebuild your own box and don't need your sector shaft replaced you will not run into the situation I did. BUT, if you just get an exchanged box there's no telling whether the replacement box had its sector shaft replaced and if it was a complete match to yours. If you just opt for a replacement box and send yours in for the core I would suggest you get the RareParts Diamond Series Pitman without the 4-FLAT splines. BUT the only other problem to make note of is This pitman is ONLY available for Power Steering units.

Nice write up, thanks for keeping us in the loop. BTW, I agree that your shocks are the most likely cause of your harsh ride.

 

[330dTA]

First I want to congratulate you SF-66TC, for the Cadillac find. What an incredible, and beautiful story. I'm glad it's you who found that treasure!
But immediately after that I must say I feel somewhat guilty. You are obviously not perfectly happy with the modifications you made on the front end of your '66 TC, and if that is so then I'm certainly one of those to blame:

I'd have to say that the increased caster of the tubular control arms did remedy some of the precise on steering because the car wants to track straight. There still is that feel of needing to make corrections, just not as bad. It'll take some getting use to like anything else. I do think a Stage-3 would really help though simply due to the firmer steering. If this boat could steer like the rack and pinion of my Volvo S90 it would be a dream, but I know it will never get that way no matter what I do. I actually thought rebuilding the entire front suspension would have helped, but it's only gotten me a much firmer ride than I like. I preferred how the car just floated down the highway before. I'm thinking it might actually just be the gas bilsteins I installed - I may go back to the old Monroe's and see if that's it.

As you remember, I had somewhat same experience. The tubular control arms with their increased caster made my '70 NY track straight. I did like it a lot. But, you may also remember, that I had custom made Koni's installed up front. Now I think they must be different from the RDS Bilsteins, because the Koni's were not "firm". - Initially, they were soft. Only the rebound cycle was stiff; they didn't let the front end to float up and down very long, or many times around. I did like that. A lot. It didn't diminish the "floating" effect of the suspension; it only made it more controllable, and the car better steering. As to the steering box; you may remember, that I never had my Stage II FF box installed, for reasons I explained to you. But I did try tightening up the original box to the max, and even tried to drive the car with the power steering fluid reservoir only half filled (after it leaked the fluids). I must say the steering felt much better that way! Much more road feel. Therefore I'm inclined to believe, that the recipe to better steering feel is not a Stage III steering box, but a power steering pump with a lower line pressure. (I plan to test this by installing a Saginaw .094 pump in place of the Federal 1.06 pump in my CH23T0C. I'm sure you know that the line pressure in the constant pressure Saginaw pump can be modified pretty easily by adding washers under the adjustement screw, whereas the line pressure in the variable pressure Federal pump can only be modified when the pump is disassembled.)

When you compare the TC to a modern big Volvo I see you are a man of class, and ambition. The Volvo S90 is a very well riding & steering automobile. But comparing a '60's Mopar to a late '90's Volvo seems unfair to me. How many linkages are there in the Volvo's back suspension? Five to a side? The Mopar suspension dates from the 1950's with only very slight modifications. It was introduced in 1957. The front wheel torsion bar suspension was all the rage. In the 1930's that was. In the early '50's it was already used in many a Le Mans winning race car (Jaguar D-type), as well as the Volkswagen Beetle. Very light, very space saving, ingenious, but transmitting terrible vibration, which Chrysler Corp fighted with ever more rubber bushings. - At the rear there are no linkages. Just a solid cartwheel axle, very much in the same way it was in the 19th century horse-drawn wagons. If you don't take into account it's reaction to a panic stop (terrible hopwheel), or it's weight (ouch), it does it's job pretty well in our Mopars.

All in all, I must say I have enjoyed following your project. Enviable perfectionism, and beautiful results!

 

[330dTA]

I must add, that the tires can make or break the steering. Remember the bias ply tires in the '70's? And the difference the radials made? A set of lousy new (brand of) radials can be a world apart from a set of good (brand of) radials. So, how can you tell the difference btw one, and the other? To me the selling price is a telling factor.

 

[SF-66TC]

First I want to congratulate you SF-66TC, for the Cadillac find. What an incredible, and beautiful story. I'm glad it's you who found that treasure!
But immediately after that I must say I feel somewhat guilty. You are obviously not perfectly happy with the modifications you made on the front end of your '66 TC, and if that is so then I'm certainly one of those to blame:

As you remember, I had somewhat same experience. The tubular control arms with their increased caster made my '70 NY track straight. I did like it a lot. But, you may also remember, that I had custom made Koni's installed up front. Now I think they must be different from the RDS Bilsteins, because the Koni's were not "firm". - Initially, they were soft. Only the rebound cycle was stiff; they didn't let the front end to float up and down very long, or many times around. I did like that. A lot. It didn't diminish the "floating" effect of the suspension; it only made it more controllable, and the car better steering. As to the steering box; you may remember, that I never had my Stage II FF box installed, for reasons I explained to you. But I did try tightening up the original box to the max, and even tried to drive the car with the power steering fluid reservoir only half filled (after it leaked the fluids). I must say the steering felt much better that way! Much more road feel. Therefore I'm inclined to believe, that the recipe to better steering feel is not a Stage III steering box, but a power steering pump with a lower line pressure. (I plan to test this by installing a Saginaw .094 pump in place of the Federal 1.06 pump in my CH23T0C. I'm sure you know that the line pressure in the constant pressure Saginaw pump can be modified pretty easily by adding washers under the adjustement screw, whereas the line pressure in the variable pressure Federal pump can only be modified when the pump is disassembled.)

When you compare the TC to a modern big Volvo I see you are a man of class, and ambition. The Volvo S90 is a very well riding & steering automobile. But comparing a '60's Mopar to a late '90's Volvo seems unfair to me. How many linkages are there in the Volvo's back suspension? Five to a side? The Mopar suspension dates from the 1950's with only very slight modifications. It was introduced in 1957. The front wheel torsion bar suspension was all the rage. In the 1930's that was. In the early '50's it was already used in many a Le Mans winning race car (Jaguar D-type), as well as the Volkswagen Beetle. Very light, very space saving, ingenious, but transmitting terrible vibration, which Chrysler Corp fighted with ever more rubber bushings. - At the rear there are no linkages. Just a solid cartwheel axle, very much in the same way it was in the 19th century horse-drawn wagons. If you don't take into account it's reaction to a panic stop (terrible hopwheel), or it's weight (ouch), it does it's job pretty well in our Mopars.

All in all, I must say I have enjoyed following your project. Enviable perfectionism, and beautiful results!

Jaakko aka 330dTA, OMG How could you even suggest you were certainly one to blame for my dissatisfaction of the modifications I made... There is no one to blame and even if there was, which there isn't, you would not even be on the list in the least bit!

If anything, I thank you mostly for all the suggestions and assistance you provided; from the vendors for better quality parts (RareParts & Classic Garage), tools (tortion bar tool from The Car Shop), the numerous links for specific information (heads, carbs, manifolds, dual exhaust etc..) and the countless "how to" links with my favorite being "How to remove the lower control arm bushings" from hotrod.com.

I very vividly recall you saying you had custom Koni's made for your front end and that you never installed the steering box - I asked if you wanted to sell it, but shipping would have been a killer. When I began the suspension project and started dismantling all the components it became clearly evident the suspension needed rebuilding. 99% ALL the bushings were shot, some nearly disintegrated. That said, how could anyone one not go wrong replacing everything as I did. To clarify, the ONLY real dissatisfaction I have is the firm ride and I blame the RCD Bilsteins for that. I would have loved the results of your custom Koni's, but I also recall you saying they wern't cheap and I wasn't willing to spend the high $$ on them. So, the only one to blame for the firm ride is myself for going with the Bilsteins. I knew they were gas shocks, but I didn't expect them to be as firm as they are. I may change them out if they really bother me, but for now I'll just see if I can deal with it.

Note:
In defense of the Bilsteins, there's nothing wrong with them - they're just too firm for my liking. My TC is just the stock 270hp 383 and can't even get a hint of burning rubber. For all the 440 folk they would probably love them.

I did read-up on the Saginaw pump you mentioned and have an article on it posted by one of the other members. I was thinking of maybe going that route, but maybe I'll try removing some of the fluid out of my ps pump like you had and see how much of a difference that would make. I'll await your test with your CH23TOC (btw, what is that?). Yes, it is a fact I love my Volvo S90 especially the ride, handling and steering. I'm also a fan of the early 740's and 940's - I've had 4 of them. There's one thing you can't ignore - they have the best turning radius' that's for sure! I know my 66TC will never be like my Volvo, however that's just my wishful thinking.... If I think it, maybe it will come.... NOT!!!!! LOL!!

 

[SF-66TC]

I must add, that the tires can make or break the steering. Remember the bias ply tires in the '70's? And the difference the radials made? A set of lousy new (brand of) radials can be a world apart from a set of good (brand of) radials. So, how can you tell the difference btw one, and the other? To me the selling price is a telling factor.

Here, Here! Well, I went on the CHEAP with the tires as there arn't many to choose from in the 235/75R15 size catergory. The standard for white walls in that size are the Kumho's which I got for $89/each. I was thinking (just thinking) of getting some 17" or 18" rims for the TC and if I did that will open up a new world of tires... But for now I'll just stick to what I have.

 

[Carl K]

Steven-

Thanks for taking the time to document everything you've done on the Town & Country. It's a great resource for those who will do something similar in the future. It would be interesting to compare the ride between your car and mine, after all the work you've done on suspension.

What a great story and find on the Cadillac. If space is getting tight in your garage, I hear a guy in San Jose is looking for a '65-'66 station wagon .

Carl K.

 

[tallhair]

WOW great thread, pictures, and commentary SF-66-TC. I've opened this thread in a new window so I can study it more fully when I have time later today.

I suggest splitting the beautiful caddy into it's own thread as I think it deserves it even if it's a GM - congrats on that great find. If you want I can move the caddy part to it's own thread. Just tell me what you want it named.

 

[SF-66TC]

WOW great thread, pictures, and commentary SF-66-TC. I've opened this thread in a new window so I can study it more fully when I have time later today.

I suggest splitting the beautiful caddy into it's own thread as I think it deserves it even if it's a GM - congrats on that great find. If you want I can move the caddy part to it's own thread. Just tell me what you want it named.

Wow, that'll be great - hope there's no flack about what's a GM doing on the FCBO forum.... But if you feel it's ok, how about naming it "A 45 year old GM Time Capsule"

 

[tallhair]

Done. New thread on the Caddy is here: A 45 year old GM Time Capsule

 

[1978 NYB]

Nice work!

I found shocks at the lowest prices at Shock Warehouse.

Bilstein - KYB - Rancho - Monroe - KONI Shocks and Struts - Shockwarehouse.com

 

[GrandpasDream]

Hey Gents!



Brakes - Highly recommend converting over to Front Disc Brakes. ’73 setups are the preferred, but 69 -72 spindles would work just fine too. The early spindles are more plentiful than the ’73’s and the good news is that pricing for the early rotors for those spindles are down to $49.95/ea for a 11.75” Bendix 7012R rotor!

Even though Ma Mopar didn’t require/use prop valves in their earlier disc brake cars, I would suggest Installing one anyway. The prop valve is a piece of cake to install. All it requires is to plumb it in-between the master cylinder (front port) and the rear brake line. pmschmitt posted a Wilwood Prop valve that IMO would be an excellent choice. Their bracket is extra, but makes the install modern and clean. Amazon's got the valve for $69.99 w/FREE 1-Day Shipping with Prime!
Amazon product ASIN B003LT619Q
View attachment 81195



Rebuilt Suspension - POR15 & POR15 Chassis Paint

For increased handling install Firm Feels Rear Sway Bar - Big Improvement!



Shock Pricing - The best price I’ve found for RCD Bilstein shocks is from PST or if you like Koni’s check out Classic Garage. They often have seasonal specials with discounts from 20% - 25% and at times with Free Shipping. They have a Facebook page Classicgarage.com They currently have a 20% off sale which started March 1st.









Nice work on everything you've done! Super impressed. I am looking to convert my 68 Newport to disc. You mention 69-72 spindles. Is this something I can get from a parts store? Any tips you can provide are so very appreciated!

Thank you!