Starter Help Needed

[OzFury]

Hi All,

I have got a bad noise when starting. There is a grinding sound I have swapped out the starter
& it is still there. I am not familiar with these MoPar's yet.

I have A bodies.

I did notice that there was no shim between the starter & the bell housing.

My A bodies have a shim is there suppose to be a shim ?

Thanks Oz

 

[Wollfen]

The shim wont make any difference, the only suggestion I can make is to get under the car while someone cranks it over for you and you and isolate the grinding noise. If the starter shows no damage and the ring gear on the toque converter is good then something else is amiss for sure.

 

[Wollfen]

If it is a sort of twanging noise then it may be the flex plate itself, they can crack and make a helluva noise.

 

[OzFury]

Ok I'll get under & check it out with someone cranking it.

Back tomorrow with the results.

Thanks Oz

 

[Yatzee]

Remove the starter and bench test it to full speed using jumper cables. Make sure it is held securely while doing this and let it spin for about fifteen to 30 seconds. No noise? OK. This is a no-load test. Reinstall the starter, remove the plugs and coil wire and test again. This will reveal sounds under partial, high spin load. You can also listen to see if the engine itself is causing the noise. Look for loose bolts at the flex plate-to converter, cracked flex plate, transmission noises at the pump/converter area and look for bolts with a polished head. No noise? OK. Put the plugs back in and crank with the coil wire off so the engine won't start and now check for the source of the noise. You can raise the car on four ramp stands for clearance under the vehicle. Jack stands are OK but be careful of their placement especially if you,re going to run the vehicle. I have experienced strange noises from the following areas: headers vibrating lightly on the right torsion bar, front pulley bolts that were too long touching the timing cover, dry bearings in starters chattering, bendix gear not engaging the flywheel teeth squarely, cracked flexplate, windage tray and a loose oil pickup. How does it sound when it's running? If that's OK, I would suspect the starter area as being the culprit.

 

[barnfind]

what engine / trans do you have?

 

[OzFury]

OK checked it out the starter gear is grinding on the ring gear from what I can see.

Once started there is no noise. This brings me back to the shim as I have had this happen on my A bodies without a shim
I don't understand why people don't put the shim back in.

It is a 318 poly & auto trans.

Thanks guys

Oz

 

[stubs300]

I don't understand why people don't put the shim back in.

It is a 318 poly & auto trans.

Thanks guys

Oz

Because sometimes it can be a royal PITA getting the shim in, others are just to lazy.

 

[OzFury]

Hi Guy's sorry for the time laps but been away working...

Anyway the starter has been swapped out & shim installed the noise is still there.
the guy I got the car from said the previous owner said he thinks that when the trans was rebuilt that the
workshop swapped the converter & it has a different ring gear ? They think he said the converter is out of a 61 model
is there a difference between 60 & 61 converters/ring gears ?


Ok the converter/ring gear in the car has 176 teeth on the ring gear. Is this correct for a 60 model ?

The starter has 9 teeth it is a Auto-Lite MDU-7001 it is bolted on using 3 bolts. I Googled the part #
& it is suppose to be the right starter.

 

[OzFury]

Ok latest update car is starting even though still cranking noisy but trans won't select gears.
plenty of fluid we cracked a trans line & no fluid so pump or pumps not working can anyone suggest what is happening ?

what fails in the pump to make it not operate ?

Thanks Oz

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Sounds like torque converter ears are broken or output shaft is broken of.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

....what fails in the pump to make it not operate ?

Thanks Oz

Not real familiar with '60 version TF's, but late 60's TF's have two drive lugs on the pump gear that engage into the two slots on the torque converter when you insert it into the front of the tranny. Those "drive lugs" can shear off and result in a "no pump pressure" condition. Basically, your tranny would be dead at that point.

A&A transmission sells an improved pump gear with more meat on the drive lugs. Info below is from their catalog.

http://www.aandatrans.com/


Front Pumps & Supports Hardened Front Pump Gears
Due to the ears breaking off of the inner
gear during acceleration or
deceleration, A&A Transmission has
solved the problem by redesigning them
and manufacturing them two different
ways. The first, our original designs, are
made from 4140 steel, and the latest designs are made
with more lubricating properties and have become a very
popular choice for longevity (comes in most of A&A’s
Transmissions as an upgrade). They feature larger and
thicker lugs and a thicker register (I.D.). This is a must for
many applications. New to the lineup are 904 gear sets
with drive-type lugs. The advantage here is less torque
converter neck cracking problems that have long plagued
the stock design. These are available in a flat drive and
the other is an angled flat drive similar to Chrysler’s
design for the A500.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

That pump drive is way overkill for stock but good info. Sounds like your trans is coming out either way.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

That pump drive is way overkill for stock but good info. Sounds like your trans is coming out either way.

What you say maybe true, but on the other hand, if the lugs are truly broken on the pump in his transmission, it wouldn't have been "overkill" then, would it?

Rick Allison at A&A knows what the h he's doing with these TF's. He didn't just make this part just for the hell of it. He was seeing a LOT of failures of the pump lugs. Yes, many were in racing applications but not all of them. There are a number of areas inside a TF that could have been better designed by Chrysler, but of course they needed to watch the manufacturing cost too. ccasion14: