the real 70 GT and S/23 #s

[marko]

i was reading through the 1970 SG30 report - also known as the option & accessory sales report when i realised that the #s used by some GT & S/23 sites are wrong.
for those who dont know what an SG30 is, its a report generated by the accounting department giving the # of shipments ( cars) and totals of every option in % form.
unfortunately this is listed for each option / color but not in combination with other options; accounting didnt need that information.
this report is done after the model year production run is over and is used to help decide what options / colors to offer in the next year's production run.
these are the real #s, alot of the time they would stop counting cars after a certain date and publish them when the reality is production could have kept on for weeks longer.

the real number of GTs shipped is 1306, not 666 as seen on some GT sites. 61 cars had the 6v
the real number of S/23s ( listed as S23 ) is 1314 not 689 as also seen on some sites.
you can see the totals on the top right for GTs & S23s

im sure some people will be upset but the SG30s are the real facts

mark

 

[polara71]

I'm surprised it's gotten this far with incorrect numbers. How is that possible?
The 70 Dodge convertible has always been 842, when i say always even back to the early 80s. When Bill & Kevin were frequent visitors on the Dodge Yahoo board both confirmed the 842 and that's where the breakdowns come from. Of course the 842 was based on % but that was indeed the number.
The Fury seems to have a much bigger following. Seems odd that the numbers might really be doubled and no one noticed till now.

 

[HWYCRZR]

To this day in a modern manufacturing world it is difficult to get the combination of options. The importance of the individual options is usually key for ordering components from suppliers so the options they needed were on hand. Also as mentioned above it was used for accounting and possibly Product Management /sales to track costs and profitability of each option.

On the other hand the magic of excel and databases can allow deciphering of the permutations these days. Key need is the complete S/N list and how each S/N was equipped. A big list will bring excel to its knees.

 

[71Polara383]

Doesn't surprise me that there was more than 666 made. Seems like they grow on trees...

 

[67valiant 100]

i was reading through the 1970 SG30 report - also known as the option & accessory sales report when i realised that the #s used by some GT & S/23 sites are wrong.
for those who dont know what an SG30 is, its a report generated by the accounting department giving the # of shipments ( cars) and totals of every option in % form.
unfortunately this is listed for each option / color but not in combination with other options; accounting didnt need that information.
this report is done after the model year production run is over and is used to help decide what options / colors to offer in the next year's production run.
these are the real #s, alot of the time they would stop counting cars after a certain date and publish them when the reality is production could have kept on for weeks longer.

the real number of GTs shipped is 1306, not 666 as seen on some GT sites. 61 cars had the 6v
the real number of S/23s ( listed as S23 ) is 1314 not 689 as also seen on some sites.
you can see the totals on the top right for GTs & S23s

im sure some people will be upset but the SG30s are the real facts

mark

View attachment 618716

So wheres this report been hiding for the last 50 years? Do you have ones for the other C-bodys?

 

[polara71]

So wheres this report been hiding for the last 50 years? Do you have ones for the other C-bodys?

Many people have them. I'm confused as to how Marko discovered that one of the most sought after C bodies had their production numbers wrong by half for the last 40 years.
Check your math

 

[71Polara383]

Found a report here just now. The chrysler executives like the Polara the best out of all the full size models.

 

[ayilar]

The 70 Dodge convertible has always been 842, when i say always even back to the early 80s. When Bill & Kevin were frequent visitors on the Dodge Yahoo board both confirmed the 842 and that's where the breakdowns come from. Of course the 842 was based on % but that was indeed the number.

AFAIK, @marko has confirmed the Polara numbers.

 

[marko]

Many people have them. I'm confused as to how Marko discovered that one of the most sought after C bodies had their production numbers wrong by half for the last 40 years.
Check your math

i'd always accepted that the 666 # was accurate, so i was very surprised to see the much higher total. i was looking at #s for S/23s when i saw the total for GTs. i then had a talk with someone who confirmed the accuracy of the SG30. theres no math to check for cars produced, its the option & colors that are listed as percentages.

 

[polara71]

AFAIK, @marko has confirmed the Polara numbers.

No need. Those numbers had been solid for over 40 years. Confirmed by the best of the best.
Now, nothing taken away from Marko, I don't know him. I've known of him for 20 years. I'm certain he's not in the same league as Bill Watson, Kevin McCabe .
Convince me otherwise

 

[polara71]

i'd always accepted that the 666 # was accurate, so i was very surprised to see the much higher total. i was looking at #s for S/23s when i saw the total for GTs. i then had a talk with someone who confirmed the accuracy of the SG30. theres no math to check for cars produced, its the option & colors that are listed as percentages.

So are you saying they give the number of cars built listed and then give a percentage of that number with said option?

( because I can not see the photo in post one clearly)

 

[marko]

So are you saying they give the number of cars built listed and then give a percentage of that number with said option?

( because I can not see the photo in post one clearly)

yes thats right.
they list the #s of each car line & model built (listed as # of shipments) and options as a % of those #s.
you can see here the car # at the top and the options below listed as a percentage

 

[marko]

No need. Those numbers had been solid for over 40 years. Confirmed by the best of the best.
Now, nothing taken away from Marko, I don't know him. I've known of him for 20 years. I'm certain he's not in the same league as Bill Watson, Kevin McCabe .
Convince me otherwise

im absolutely not in kevin's league, nor bill's.
i have no interest in convincing anybody anything, all im doing is sharing some facts.
i havent heard from bill since nov 2021 and have tried contacting him many times by phone and email but there has been no response. his # is no longer in service.
ive known bill since the mid 1990s. he was a very private person and i dont know of any of his friends. i assume hes passed away but i havent found an obituary.
kevin is also a friend, i spent most of august staying with him and we did moparfest and alot of other car show things.
kevin owns my 1st sunroof Salon, i sold it to him about 17 yrs ago. it felt odd driving it to moparfest on the other side of the country......

 

[67valiant 100]

I think the break down for GTs & S/23s is interesting.

This shows us that the PP23 sequence was indeed used internally at Plymouth for 1970 GTs (and PS23 sequence for S/23s)

Yet they were all produced having PH23 Sport Fury sequences and wasnt till '71 that the PP23 SFGT VINs were being implemented.

 

[polara71]

So, I'm a bit confused, I forget the book, it was put out in the early 90s or perhaps the late 80s that had all these numbers in print. It was a great informative book. I presume that author had the O & A reports. So again, how is it Marko noticed this mistake? I wish some of the GT guys would chime in.

 

[Fury Pursuit]

This report has been available for years,....I'm not going to wager on its accuracy, it would not be a safe bet.

The total production of S/23's and GT's is roughly the same number 1361, adding the additional 61/63, or 66 6BBL cars that were produced.

Any number, from any source in this era is likely to be a percentage equivalent of production and not an actual documented number with Chassis/VIN numbers, which is what is required to know "actual production"...unfortunately that data does not exist.

 

[Samplingman]

yes thats right.
they list the #s of each car line & model built (listed as # of shipments) and options as a % of those #s.
you can see here the car # at the top and the options below listed as a percentage

View attachment 618775

‘71 Newports! Now please show an image of the 1970 Chryslers…..

 

[kmccabe56]

i was reading through the 1970 SG30 report - also known as the option & accessory sales report when i realised that the #s used by some GT & S/23 sites are wrong.
for those who dont know what an SG30 is, its a report generated by the accounting department giving the # of shipments ( cars) and totals of every option in % form.
unfortunately this is listed for each option / color but not in combination with other options; accounting didnt need that information.
this report is done after the model year production run is over and is used to help decide what options / colors to offer in the next year's production run.
these are the real #s, alot of the time they would stop counting cars after a certain date and publish them when the reality is production could have kept on for weeks longer.

the real number of GTs shipped is 1306, not 666 as seen on some GT sites. 61 cars had the 6v
the real number of S/23s ( listed as S23 ) is 1314 not 689 as also seen on some sites.
you can see the totals on the top right for GTs & S23s

im sure some people will be upset but the SG30s are the real facts

mark

View attachment 618716

I still visit this site but have stopped responding to ost

 

[kmccabe56]

most posts because I have better things to do than argue with people. The one correction I will make to Markos post is that SG30s report on the number of cars SOLD. it is NOT cars BUILT!!!!

The report posted covers cars SOLD in the US. There is a separate report for Canada.

 

[polara71]

Thank you Kevin.
You are like the old E.F. Hutton ads , when you talk people stop and listen.
I'm not sure how anyone could argue with you. However as I typed that I recall a disagreement in post.