Timing chain replacement.

to prevent crushing pipe nipples slip the largest possible bolt inside and use a well sized pipe wrench. This has proved successful for me for many years working inthe maintenance industry. Hope this helps. Lindsay

This is definitely a wise idea. Since I don't have to put this motor back together right away, I'm going to wire brush it half to death, and treat it over the next several days with some penetrant. Hopefully, it will cooperate eventually. If it doesn't, I will go to plan "B".
 
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About your A/C, we don't see a picture or know what kind of service has been done other than your description that: "working very nicely," so from what I see of all the engine grime I would doubt much, so moving your compressor should be minimal with just enough to get at your work at hand. When you start moving old A/C lines who know what can happen if they are aged, crack a tube, or crack the old rubber and seals, move it too much and you maybe doing more than just recharging your system. You may want to make a quick 2x4 wooden frame to wire/hold it up just a little so you don't stress the lines.

Also replace your upper & lower radiator hoses, from the amount of grime I see on them they are doomed to fail. Same for the heater hoses & nipples, that one bolt can be removed with a open end wrench fairly quickly. As far as the nipples go post up a pic and we'll see, but your right in there and they still are available and I would think not that expensive, so... Also I use a Oxy-Acetylene torch to heat up the cast iron at the base of the threads, easiest way to get them out without damaging them. Heat and spin them right out, don't beat yourself up on them.

I vote for taking the radiator out (I learned that one the hard way)

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Naturally, I have no plans to leave those hoses in place. Of course, they are not original to the car, but they have been on there for some time. I think I replaced them when I first got the car about 15 years ago. I will be cleaning as much caked up oil and grease as I can along the way, and re-painting all the components I remove (leaving the gasket surfaces bare, of course).

Literally nothing has been done to this engine outside of some ignition upgrades, a carburetor rebuild, and some exhaust and cooling system work. I converted the A/C system to 134a about 5 years ago, and it works well, so I don't want to disturb it. I certainly plan to support the compressor so it is not exerting any undue pressure on the lines.

The radiator is absolutely coming out. All the antifreeze is drained, I'm replacing the hoses anyway, and it's only held in by a couple of bolts, so it's definitely being removed. Besides, I want to be able to get an impact gun in there for the pulley bolts, so I will need all the room I can get.
 
Naturally, I have no plans to leave those hoses in place. Of course, they are not original to the car, but they have been on there for some time. I think I replaced them when I first got the car about 15 years ago. I will be cleaning as much caked up oil and grease as I can along the way, and re-painting all the components I remove (leaving the gasket surfaces bare, of course).

Literally nothing has been done to this engine outside of some ignition upgrades, a carburetor rebuild, and some exhaust and cooling system work. I converted the A/C system to 134a about 5 years ago, and it works well, so I don't want to disturb it. I certainly plan to support the compressor so it is not exerting any undue pressure on the lines.

The radiator is absolutely coming out. All the antifreeze is drained, I'm replacing the hoses anyway, and it's only held in by a couple of bolts, so it's definitely being removed. Besides, I want to be able to get an impact gun in there for the pulley bolts, so I will need all the room I can get.

A five year old r134a conversion has me intrigued. From your pictures it looks like you kept the RV2 compressor, correct? Does it needs to be refilled often? As my A/C is pretty much dead in the water I would like to know how you managed a successful conversion
 
Yes, that's the old RV2 boat anchor.

The only crafty thing I had to do was fashion a seal for the line that attaches to the front of the compressor. I had a bunch of larger seals in an assortment kit, and I had to trim it down to make it fit. The replacing of this seal was made necessary by the fact that it was the one that caused the system to depressurize in the first place (there were traces of refrigerant oil around it). Other than that, it was fairly straightforward operation.

I opened up the system, flushed out everything very well (the condenser in particular), replaced the receiver/dryer, added the proper amount of ester oil to the compressor sump (which is compatible with both 134a and R12), put the filling adapter on along with the new Schrader valve, vacuumed down the system and held that vacuum for about 15 minutes or so, and re-filled it at 85% of its refrigerant capacity with 134a (I'm told it causes the system to run at a higher pressure and to use a bit less of it). If memory serves, I did not run flush through the larger lines. I read in a number of places that doing so might not be the best idea, so I'm pretty sure I left them alone. I did, however, disconnect them at a few points and ran some dry compressed air through there. I figured any minute moisture introduced by the compressed air would be eliminated by vacuuming down the system.

I made note of the ambient temperature and made sure I recorded it, along with the system pressure at hot idle, and also where the system pressure was when the motor cooled down completely. Since temperature will affect the pressure readings, it's important to make sure you write those down so you know how much to add in the future if the system leaks down somewhat. This will prevent you from having to start from scratch in order to have a baseline.

All the pressure readings were taken without the pressure valve in operation, which is not useful information because that device only kicks in at certain times during the A/C system operation (you can hear it come on when it kicks in; it's like a weird, muffled gargle). I think it's called a TXV or thermal expansion valve....it might have another name on these particular systems....I don't remember and I don't have my notes in front of me.

I have not had to add any refrigerant since I performed the conversion. We'll see what happens this Summer.
 
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This sounds promising! So you kept the original hoses? What did you do about the EPR valve situation, or did the '69 RV2 already come with the thermostat switch? I've read that r134a operates at different pressures so for it to work properly this should be addressed.

Sorry for hogging your thread like this but the idea of a cool summer I think is worth pursuing. Good luck on the timing chain!
 
This sounds promising! So you kept the original hoses? What did you do about the EPR valve situation, or did the '69 RV2 already come with the thermostat switch? I've read that r134a operates at different pressures so for it to work properly this should be addressed.

Sorry for hogging your thread like this but the idea of a cool summer I think is worth pursuing. Good luck on the timing chain!


Nothing. I left in in there. I read in a number of places that if I took it out, the evaporator would freeze over. Perhaps it's presence is compensated for by me having filled the system up with less 134a instead of the prescribed amount for the system if it still had R12. I was also not sure if the clutch assemblies common to the RV2 would tolerate being cycled; these systems, as built, didn't turn the electromagnets on and off. They stayed engaged until the A/C compressor was turned off. On the other hand, if the clutch was not cycling, I figured it could last indefinitely.

I read a very informative write-up on this and took a bunch of notes that I have saved somewhere....I wish I could recall more of the particulars, but it definitely worked. The air was about 40 - 43 degrees at the center vents in June, at idle. Pretty impressive.

This car originally had the AutoTemp system, which failed decades ago. The previous owner (or perhaps even the dealership....the modifications look older and quite clean, as far as I can tell) bypassed the temperature wheel and whatever sensors are responsible for altering the cabin temperature. The heater control valve also failed not long after I got the car (not that it would do much anyway, given the circumstances), and it was replaced with a manual ball valve. The vacuum controls still work.

The way it is set up now, if I want air conditioning, I close the ball valve under the hood, hit the button for "hi-auto" on the vacuum controls to kick the compressor on, activate the pull switch for the blower motor, and enjoy. If I want heat, I open the ball valve and hit the pull switch, leaving the vacuum controls alone (in the off position), and I get heat out of all the vents without the compressor coming on. Not perfect, but it works well enough. Tearing out the AutoTemp system would be a ghastly nightmare, so I'm willing to live with it the way it is. I will eventually install a cable-operated heater control valve so I can control the temperature without having to pop the hood.
 
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There's other stuff that was part of the process too, like making a dipstick for the compressor to make sure I had the right amount of ester oil in it, and a few other things.....if I can find all my notes on the procedure, and perhaps a couple of links, I can forward them to you.

It might sound a bit annoying and complicated, but I had the whole process done in a couple of hours, and I really took my time.
 
A bit more work was done today. The pump housing gave way easily when the "hidden" bolt behind the heater hose fitting was backed out.

This will all get cleaned up and refinished as things go along.

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More progress today.

The timing cover didn't want to line up when the new lower gasket was installed. I tried installing the lower bolts first to compress it, but it was of no use. I had a roll of gasket paper that was thinner than the cork in the Fel-Pro kit, made another gasket out of it, and everything went together as it should.

I will continue to wipe things down and put finishing touches on various components as things progress.

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The old set didn't have a nylon covered cam gear, which was the whole reason I dove into this in the first place, but the chain had relaxed a fair bit. It was deflecting about 1/2". The new chain is nice and taut.
 
Looks like you got the pipe fitting out of the water pump housing, nice work.

For reinstall of the timing cover I was told to loosen the pan bolts a little so there is room for the cork gasket. In my case I had the pan off completely so that wasn't an issue. That way was also able to check oil pickup screen
 
The old set didn't have a nylon covered cam gear, which was the whole reason I dove into this in the first place, but the chain had relaxed a fair bit. It was deflecting about 1/2". The new chain is nice and taut.
You lucked out with a top sprocket made out of metal, maybe it has been changed already in the past, I hope who ever did the job checked the oil pickup screen for debris, but maybe the (if it had) nylon sprocket wasn't all tore up and there was no need to check the screen. The lower pan timing cover 'kit' gasket should squash down and if it doesn't after being compressed for 24 hrs a loosening and re-tightening of the bolts may help bring it down. It does help to loosen pretty much all the oil pan bolts and 'crack it' so to say, this will work on a factory installed oil pan gasket but if someones been in there and coated both sides of the gasket with permatex gasket adhesive you may tear the gasket (or have to use a chisel to beak it apart) but then a tube of your fav wiz-bang sealant can come to the rescue!

Remember to use sealant on the lower block corners.

A word about your upper radiator hose thermostat housing/nipple, I can see a little bit of corrosion on it and in the past I have found that they can leak because of that corrosion, not a lot just a green drip or two, wipe it up to only have it come back. I don't know how anal you are about your engine bay but I have permatexed the nipple and inside the hose (let it tack up & dry before use) to get rid of that pesky drip. Or you can get a new housing/nipple they do aftermarket that item.


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You lucked out with a top sprocket made out of metal, maybe it has been changed already in the past, I hope who ever did the job checked the oil pickup screen for debris, but maybe the (if it had) nylon sprocket wasn't all tore up and there was no need to check the screen. The lower pan timing cover 'kit' gasket should squash down and if it doesn't after being compressed for 24 hrs a loosening and re-tightening of the bolts may help bring it down. It does help to loosen pretty much all the oil pan bolts and 'crack it' so to say, this will work on a factory installed oil pan gasket but if someones been in there and coated both sides of the gasket with permatex gasket adhesive you may tear the gasket (or have to use a chisel to beak it apart) but then a tube of your fav wiz-bang sealant can come to the rescue!

Remember to use sealant on the lower block corners.

A word about your upper radiator hose thermostat housing/nipple, I can see a little bit of corrosion on it and in the past I have found that they can leak because of that corrosion, not a lot just a green drip or two, wipe it up to only have it come back. I don't know how anal you are about your engine bay but I have permatexed the nipple and inside the hose (let it tack up & dry before use) to get rid of that pesky drip. Or you can get a new housing/nipple they do aftermarket that item.


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It seems unlikely anyone's been in there at any point, especially since the motor only has about 55,000 miles on it. However....I did notice that there was no gasket between the bottom of the timing cover in the oil pan. Somebody had used a very thin coat of black sealant to seal that area, but it was done with extreme care, and the motor never leaked in that spot. Is there any chance at all this might have been done at the factory?

As far as the cork gasket is concerned, there's absolutely no way it was going to get squeezed in there and still have the timing cover line up with the alignment pins. I mean, there was NO chance of that happening. I would have most definitely had to loosen the entire pan to make that gasket work, and even then, I would be concerned about irregularities popping up along one of the sealing surfaces that would get disturbed by that method. The far easier solution was to use the paper that I had, which was a little more than half the thickness of the cork gasket.

I did run into one problem, but I'm not too sure how serious it's going to be. When I was tightening the last of the bolts in the lower right hand corner, the fabricated gasket began to walk out from beneath the timing cover in that area. It separated from the block about 1/8", but ONLY at the tip of that one corner. It did not move out from the area where the bolts actually are, or migrate in or out from the main sealing surface between the oil pan and the timing cover. It also didn't split anywhere as far as I can tell.

I put a dab of sealant in that 1/8" gap, but will this be sufficient? I have no problem taking the cover off of this motor, fabricating a new gasket for that spot, and putting everything back together again. The last thing I want is to put it all back together and have it leak.
 
It seems unlikely anyone's been in there at any point, especially since the motor only has about 55,000 miles on it. However....I did notice that there was no gasket between the bottom of the timing cover in the oil pan. Somebody had used a very thin coat of black sealant to seal that area, but it was done with extreme care, and the motor never leaked in that spot. Is there any chance at all this might have been done at the factory?

Black sealant was never used from the factory, someones been in there before. On a 440 the oil pan gasket(s) is all one piece, cork with rubber bits, the only reason the timing cover gasket kit has the short front section is that it gets pretty much destroyed upon disassembly. 2 gaskets are required if you have a HP 440 with a windage tray. Oil pan, gasket, windage tray, gasket, a little more work to get it all up there with the engine in the car. Permatex one gasket to top of windage tray, ya may want to do top of gasket so that it sticks to the block, sticky goo the oil pan gasket to the pan, put windage tray up in position and hope it sticks to block, (you can hold it up with a couple of the bolts F & R or middle what ever you can get to easily, then when you get the pan up close take the bolt out and you are right there to put the bolt in through it all, rinse and repeat for the rear) then quickly get the oil pan on before the tray drops. You can do it with the windage tray sticky goo'd to the pan but it a little more wiggly wiggly to get it around the oil pickup, easy to do on a engine stand, not so in car. No windage tray, pretty easy just make sure crank is rotated into the right position. Different technique's for different cars/jobs. Oil pan with single exhaust sucks too, drop center link AND Y-Pipe.

What I suspect is that someone did the job before and used sealant on the whole job, ie they probably didn't have a oil pan gasket and used sealant on the whole pan which would give you the no clearance that you are dealing with.

I did run into one problem, but I'm not too sure how serious it's going to be. When I was tightening the last of the bolts in the lower right hand corner, the fabricated gasket began to walk out from beneath the timing cover in that area. It separated from the block about 1/8", but ONLY at the tip of that one corner. It did not move out from the area where the bolts actually are, or migrate in or out from the main sealing surface between the oil pan and the timing cover. It also didn't split anywhere as far as I can tell.

I put a dab of sealant in that 1/8" gap, but will this be sufficient? I have no problem taking the cover off of this motor, fabricating a new gasket for that spot, and putting everything back together again. The last thing I want is to put it all back together and have it leak.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "walk out" did the gasket shift or get squeezed out? From looking at the picture of the freshly painted timing cover I can see white stuff around the outer edges, I hope that isn't silicone sealer, silicone is slippery before it hardens and can cause gasket to shift/slide/squeeze out. Always use a tacky gasket adhesive and proper torque on bolts. A close up picture would help.

Nice job painting the cover... to bad you missed the bolts :poke: not hard to do, just put the bolts into a old soup can, blast a healthy shot of carb cleaner on them, rattle them around for a minute and dump them out on a shop towel, let them air dry or give them a blast from the shop air gun. Grab some cardboard and punch a bunch of holes in it, stick bolts in holes and rattle can away. The heads will get a little socket roached unless you let the paint harden for 30 days, or bake the paint, but it will look a lot better than greasy black bolts like you have now.

Also replace that fuel line section(s), it's all wide open right now and your right in there.

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The bolts were de-greased, but not painted. What you're looking at is my greasy fingerprints all over the bolts and the cover. I'll clean everything off before I bury it all under the pump housing and other parts.

"Walking out" means that as the one bolt was tightened, the gasket slid away from the corner 1/8" (but no other portion of it moved). I think, in the end, I'll be doing that over again instead of wondering whether or not it's going to leak, unless it's not likely to be a problem.

I replaced the fuel line a few years back with fuel injection hose when I did the fuel pump, but I do have plans to replace it since it's right in front of me. As far as the overall appearance of the motor, I'm not going to worry much about it unless I take it out if the car and re-finish it entirely. For now, it's just going to have a few freshly painted components up front. I have other irons in the fire, and I need to get this car back on the road.
 
I couldn't help myself, so I replaced the gasket again, and re-painted the timing cover. This time, it all went like clockwork.

I also gave the bolts a good scrubbing. I left them unpainted because I actually like the way it looks.

The pulley was also repainted (but not the grooves...just the body of the pulley), along with the balancer (with care taken not to get paint inside the hole for the crank snout).

I am guessing the balancer is all the way on. I never really felt it 'bottom out', so to speak, but it won't go further without spinning the motor. I used a long piece of 3/4"-16 threaded rod, a nut, and a very thick washer to reinstall it.

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Looking good........

Trick for the timing marks. Paint the marks blue with the rest of the cover, and then fill in the numbers and lines with white paint. Works great.
 
I couldn't help myself, so I replaced the gasket again, and re-painted the timing cover. This time, it all went like clockwork.

I also gave the bolts a good scrubbing. I left them unpainted because I actually like the way it looks.

The pulley was also repainted (but not the grooves...just the body of the pulley), along with the balancer (with care taken not to get paint inside the hole for the crank snout).

I am guessing the balancer is all the way on. I never really felt it 'bottom out', so to speak, but it won't go further without spinning the motor. I used a long piece of 3/4"-16 threaded rod, a nut, and a very thick washer to reinstall it.

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The torque spec for the harmonic balancer is 135 ft lbs if I am not mistaken. The engine will start turning over long before you reach that value so you need to block the crank somehow. The way I did it was to put a socket on one of the flex plate bolts so it would lock against the engine block. If the balancer isn't fully seated yet torqueing it down will make sure of that.
 
Everything is back together and it is running quite nicely. Strangely enough, it seems to actually start a bit faster than it did before, and seems to run a bit stronger somehow. I didn't expect any real difference whatsoever, so that comes as somewhat of a surprise. So far, nothing that was worked on is leaking. It's all nice and dry.

I do have a really ridiculous question, though.....I feel foolish asking this, but which way does the shroud bolt on? There was just the slightest bit of interference with the fan after everything came together. I was able to adjust it out, but I figured I may have installed it upside down. The way I have it situated now, the little squared off area in the corner is positioned over the *lower* radiator hose. It occurs to me I could probably bolt it up either way, so I have to ask.
 
More progress today.

The timing cover didn't want to line up when the new lower gasket was installed. I tried installing the lower bolts first to compress it, but it was of no use. I had a roll of gasket paper that was thinner than the cork in the Fel-Pro kit, made another gasket out of it, and everything went together as it should.

I will continue to wipe things down and put finishing touches on various components as things progress.

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Just curious if the new timing chain had a lot less play than the old one you removed or were they about the same?
 
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