Tire balancing question

[Triple Pickle]

I bought new tires for my 73 Olds a while back and since then it has a vibration about 60 mph.
I suspected an out of balance tire as it didn’t do it with another set I had on it.
I took the one I suspected off (right rear) and took it to the tire shop where I got the tires and asked them to check it. Here’s what they done…
Instead of removing the weights they put on originally, they just added more. In a different area. To me that’s not the way it should be done. Thoughts? I haven’t tried it out yet to see if that helps it.

 

[FURYGT]

Drive with it on and see if the problem is cured. Did they use a spin balancing machine or a bubble balance type?

 

[Triple Pickle]

Drive with it on and see if the problem is cured. Did they use a spin balancing machine or a bubble balance type?

Spin. They usually do pretty good at that shop but, to me,this putting weights all over the place stuff ain’t right. Or the tire itself is junk.

 

[bronze turbine]

Why didn't you just take the car back to them and have them figure it out? Assuming the original weights they put on improved the balance over no weights at all, then what they did was OK. But if the original weights weren't put on right and made matters worse, then it would have been better to remove them first. But, who knows.

 

[bronze turbine]

The tire might be out of round. The very informative Chrysler Master Tech video I watched on the subject of troubleshooting vibrations instructed you to check the run-out of the tire with a gauge. That's something I've never seen a garage or tire store do.

 

[FURYGT]

Sometimes on styled wheels shops try to balance with only weights on the rear for a better appearance and to ensure that the trim ring fits correctly. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't and weights on the front of the wheel are needed. If it still vibrates, have them check to make sure the tire is not out of round.

 

[bronze turbine]

Those spin balancers are so accurate that you really should have to put only one weight per side of the tire, but if the tech isn't that skilled he might put a weight on, spin it again and find that it's still out of balance and put another weight on in another spot. It's not ideal but in my experience it's quite common.

 

[CBODY67]

In theory, they should have spun the tire as presented to see what might have changed, for diagnostics, first. Then added or moved weights as the computer indicated. If that is what they did, no real problems.

Otherwise, they would remove the first weights used and re-did the whole job again. Which might have resulted in the same result you now have.

Agreed, with trim rings, the retention clips' placement and width can complicate things a bit. Even to the point of splitting the weight and moving the two weights away to clear the clips. Otherwise, all weights would have been placed on the rear side of the wheel. Possibly with a mix of stick-on weights and clip-on weights. With the stick-on weights covered with duct tape to ensure they stay put.

Seems like there is a "click" in the basic set-up process to put all of the weights on the back, on some balancers? Otherwise, the weights go where indicated on the screen . . . location and how much, as the "default mode" for modern wheels. As the wheel spins, the lateral runout can be observed easily. Usually, steel wheels are easily in-spec. Even if they weren't the computer will balance things.

Usually, an out of round tire will show up much quicker than at 60mph, from my experiences. AND be easily observed as the tire spins up on the balancer, too.

You might take a ball point pen and mark the location of the valve stem on the bead area . . . on each tire. That way, if the tire is moving on the wheel, that will be easily indicated. Drive them about 1000 miles, as soon as you can, to see how things hold up. "As quick as you can" is so that if anything is going to happen, it will, and you won't be returning 6 months later with few miles on the tires.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Triple Pickle]

Why didn't you just take the car back to them and have them figure it out? Assuming the original weights they put on improved the balance over no weights at all, then what they did was OK. But if the original weights weren't put on right and made matters worse, then it would have been better to remove them first. But, who knows.

Good question. I was going to put another wheel on it to test it out and long story short, logistics.
To me it should have weight on one area of the circumference of the tire. If that’s too much then putting more weight somewhere else to compensate isn’t the answer.
Also, I checked the runout on all 4 by jacking it up and spinning it close to the ground with an object close to the side as well. They looked good with that test.

 

[Triple Pickle]

Good question. I was going to put another wheel on it to test it out and long story short, logistics.
To me it should have weight on one area of the circumference of the tire. If that’s too much then putting more weight somewhere else to compensate isn’t the answer.
Also, I checked the runout on all 4 by jacking it up and spinning it close to the ground with an object close to the side as well. They looked good with that test.

They didn’t remove the original weight s that they installed. They just spun it and added more. I would think that after seeing it was off, they would have removed them and started over.
They were busy and I didn’t notice till I got back home or I would have questioned them. If this doesn’t cure it I’m going back tomorrow with the whole car.

 

[CBODY67]

Even back in the bubble balance days, if it took a bit of weight in one spot to center the bubble, a good service station guy would split that big weight into two weights, putting one on the outside and one on the inside, which put the bubble in the middle circle.

On the later (1990s+) computer balancers we had at the dealership, I have seen some jobs where the balancer indicated a, say 1.0 oz weight in one spot, then a smaller, say .25 oz. weight on the backside in a totally different location (compared to the first weight on the outside). And with that, when final tested, it came up as balanced. Just depends on where the balancer detects "heavy spots" to be compensated for.

I also watched the local Exxon guy bubble balance Atlas Plycron tires with no more than 1/2 oz per tire. If they needed more, it was unusual, by observation.

CBODY67

 

[CBODY67]

ALSO, for general principles, put a paint daub on the end of the lug stud which the valve stem points to. That way, you can always remount the tire/wheel in the same location on the brake drum.

CBODY67

 

[413]

Take it back, they did it wrong. Competing weights is not the way to go.

Yes they should have checked it as it came in to see if it was off, then when it was off stripped it of weights and re-balanced it. If this tire was off how are the other 3?

Vibrations can come and go at different speeds. They don’t need to make sense to us. I have a tire now that will vibrate at 55-65 and it’s smooth at 75-85. Tell me that makes any sense. Tire is round and wheel is straight.

 

[Triple Pickle]

Take it back, they did it wrong. Competing weights is not the way to go.

Yes they should have checked it as it came in to see if it was off, then when it was off stripped it of weights and re-balanced it. If this tire was off how are the other 3?

Vibrations can come and go at different speeds. They don’t need to make sense to us. I have a tire now that will vibrate at 55-65 and it’s smooth at 75-85. Tell me that makes any sense. Tire is round and wheel is straight.

That’s what I thought. This car vibrates at 60-70. Smooth above and below that. I think these tires are junk honestly. They’ve put enough lead on them to reload 200 .45 long Colt.

 

[rags]

To me that’s not the way it should be done. Thoughts?

shoemakers.

Seems like there is a "click" in the basic set-up process to put all of the weights on the back, on some balancers?

the machine we have at work has settings for

knock on weights for one or both sides, stick on weights that apply to the inside of a rim and combinations both.

 

[bronze turbine]

I have a tire now that will vibrate at 55-65 and it’s smooth at 75-85. Tell me that makes any sense.

Our van had a vibration at around 60 that would go away at 70. Tires were balanced many times, only helped a little. Finally replaced the shocks and the problem was almost completely gone. Bad shocks can allow a very small vibration to grow.

 

[bronze turbine]

In a nutshell, yes some tires are just bad, and all the balancing in the world won't make them smooth.

 

[bronze turbine]

Question: What ever happened to balancing the wheel right on the car? It seems this isn't done anymore. I wonder why.

 

[Triple Pickle]

Another thing worth mentioning is that it’s not like these are 31/10.50 15s.’They are 205 75 14s . Pretty small to need so much weight. We’ll see tomorrow. I also think there’s something to the shocks letting it bounce more than it normally would

 

[Lefty71]

Seeing how they did you, I think the next time I need something balanced, maybe I'd take some pix of the setup, then peel all the weights back off before I took it to them!! Another thing to remember.... you are balancing the wheel and tire obviously. If you broke down the bead and moved the tire, then you would possibly be looking at a whole different ballgame, maybe way better, maybe worse. It may be worth your trouble to have someone follow you and watch your tire.....sometimes the really bad ones will show a broken belt or wobble that you would have a hard time catching otherwise, 'til it fails on you.

**EDIT** Now that your pix have loaded, to me it does look like they pulled off one big weight and then split it into two different locations, although maybe the total is even more weight???