Where to look 440 short block.

I would agree with your ET estimate. Low 14's would be possible with the right tires and suspension set up.

My stroker has a 5500 redline. My 2 cents is that I would spend any extra cost on the bottom end i.e. Eagle Rods and the like instead of a roller cam since the top end is going to be on the mild side. Power does corrupt (see the Flyin' Whale thread) but with age, you typically have the right amount of respect and fear of what power can do and how easy you can get yourself in trouble with a performance engine.
 
The main comment I’d have on your plans is that you’re assuming too high a redline. Unless you’re going to put in a shift kit and modify the shift points on your transmission, it won’t upshift automatically that high (I think that’s right anyway). If you don’t want a race car and just want it to go like a scalded cat when you floor it, I think you’re never going to see the high side of 5,000 RPM.

This makes a mild stroker all the more attractive. If you have mild can timing on a big inch engine, it’s going to produce the power you want right where you want it. Remember that a stock 440 makes 480 lb ft at 2800 rpm and 350 hp at 4400. If your performance engine has lower numbers than these at these points, it’s not going to be as fast as what you have now, from a “I’m just going to floor it on the highway” perspective.

505” (which is the 512 kit at 0.030” over) with a 0.500” lift, 220-degree cam is going to make huge torque and sign off above 5000 rpm..... exactly what you want.

Take that with a grain of salt. I haven’t built a lot of engines, and never anything like this. It’s just what I have come to believe after trying my own forms of modeling in the last couple years as I plan the rebuild for my Imperial.
 
Last edited:
I see what you mean. 5500 to 6000 maybe too high and I never get even close to those rpms. NO plans to shift myself.
Your link to the hot rod mag article is appreciated and very interesting. I think I will try and first locate a decent ,tired
440 long block.
Pull the heads and have the bottom end done as Fury GT suggests and do it right. Stock mildly massaged iron heads would be fine and work with the HP manifolds. Very interested in the roller cam idea with stock rockers as per article.
First to find a deserted Winnibago!!!
 
How much is it going to cost to refresh and update a set of iron heads? Will it be significantly less than buying a set of 440-source aluminum heads? They have straight plugs and look stock.
 
Well I didn't know that either. I have much to learn of what is available.
 
Some thoughts on the article, use case, and effects of changes, in no particular order:

The article uses Edelbrock heads, which seem to be roughly equivalent in performance to the 440-source. If you use stock iron heads, even with a relatively mild build, you'll get less power and torque.

The cam they use still peaks at like 5,600 RPM. So I think you want less duration.

All else being equal (and it never is), larger displacement will move the power and torque curves down the rev range. So you can have more duration and still get low-end torque.

Headers are good for torque. I know that's the opposite of what everyone says, but I really think it's true. Look at the tuning guidelines: longer tubes make more torque. You're going from a couple inches in a manifold to 20 or 30 inches in a header. The reason they're associated with high-rpm power is that most people who use them are going for high-rpm power. Correlation is not causation. They have issues with stock appearance, sound, heat, and fit, so I'm not making any recommendations. But $700 for TTI headers will likely give you more power in the range you want.

Roller cams are about $1000 more than a flat-tappet. Okay, maybe you get away for less, but you'll get nickel'd and dime'd somewhere.


Still.... I think for an engine that you want to be "step on it and go" fast, you want under 220 degrees of duration at 0.050" lift. If you look at all the cam company suggestions, for a heavy street car, or RV cam, they all seem to agree on this.

One step down from the lobes used in the article is 212/0.525" In, 218/0.521" (duration at 0.050" and total lift). Chrysler gave gross duration, but that duration seems to be pretty similar to a factory 350HP cam. So you're likely to get a very similar torque profile. (Lobe 3012 intake 3034 ex if you're looking at the Comp catalog). If you go roller, I think this would be a good choice, assuming the stock valvetrain can really handle it. The lowest-duration Lunati roller (20230710) is very similar. 440-source recommends upgraded springs for anything over 0.500" lift, for what that's worth.

I have no way of knowing if all the bad-mouthing of Comp is real or just bitterness. However, nobody seems to have anything bad to say about Lunati, so I was leaning heavily towards one of their cams.

Everything I think about here is for my Imperial, with a 5500lb curb weight and a 2.94 rear end. Your car is lighter and has more gear, so you could get away with more cam. However, you may still never go over 5,000 rpm, so anything you give up on the bottom to get more power above that will never be realized.

If you decide to go with Edelbrock or 440-source heads deciding they're about the same price as a good set of rebuilt irons, you will find that the marginal cost of a 505" stroker kit, headers, or a roller cam are all close to $1000. If I had to pick one of those three (and I would, since I can't afford all three), I would be leaning towards the 505" bottom end and using a flat tappet cam and HP manifolds. I was considering the Lunati 10230701 (213/220 duration, 0.454"/0.475" lift) and some Crane grinds in the same range. I'd guess this would be good for 540-550 lb-ft at 2800-3000 rpm. A stock (fresh rebuild, trans-go kitted) transmission and rear-end would probably live behind this for quite a while. I'd guess this would be about $2000 more than a basic rebuild.

Before anyone talks about the cost of the stroker kit, please note that I said MARGINAL cost. It's about $1k more than a good bottom-end kit with pistons. A little more, sure, but in the ballpark.

If you follow this, I'd love to see how it comes out. My recreation budget for 2019 is getting eaten by my 2017 paint project, so I'll have to wait another year for my driveline rebuild....
 
Don't do it, please. She's too original for that, rare too and you know it.

Hey Polara. She is original throughout except the engine. She was born with a 383. Collector in Utah had it. Had the 440 ready to put in a 68 Barracuda. Put it in and realised no power brake booster would live in the same space. He looked at his collection and saw the 383 in the Fury. He took out the Fury's 383 and put it in the Barracuda and put the 440 in the Fury. I was bummed to hear that in a way but couldn't argue with the swap!
 
Thanks Bajajoaquin for all your info. If I read correctly headers with smaller tubes like 1 5/8ths are better than 1 7/8ths for torque down low but no matter ,I would rather not have headers for this old girl. Want her look as stock as possible. And I dare say it I want to keep a points distributor.:eek:. The rpm's are so low ,if she doesn't fire ,something else is wrong.
I run point's now and frankly love the whole deal. Like I said ,,no race car.
 
Points work great u to 5000 rpm as long as your spring tension on them is over 18"lbs
 
I read correctly headers with smaller tubes like 1 5/8ths are better than 1 7/8ths for torque down low but no matter
Don't believe this wives tale. Yes 2" tubes are not great for a RV cammed 440 but 1 5/8 is not going to make more torque than 1 7/8.
Headers work because they do not allows the pulse from one cylinder to effect the flow of exhaust gasses from another cylinder in the same bank. This is also why they work at all RPMs.
 
My understanding is that the disadvantages of headers are heat, fit, leaks, ground clearance, sound, and appearance. Some brands and coatings may mitigate some or all of the problems. For some, even if all of the first elements are mitigated, the last two are deal-breakers. Not to derail this and turn it into a headers thread.
 
I'm slowly building my 512 for my wagon with much the same desire as you. Just a fun street car. I do not race it and the mild 440 I had built before was est at 550lb feet of torque with 400-450 hp. It was a blast to drive with 3:55 gears. I was running the magnum manifolds and 440 source heads. The 440 source heads were cheaper to buy than build another set of 906 heads with 2.14 and 1.88 valves, hardened seats and bronze guides. I rarely pushed it past 5000 rpm.

Curently the 69 440 block needed very little in machine work for my 512. the block is now .060 over and no clearancing of the block was needed. I used a eagle 4.25 stroke crank and eagle H beam 7.100 rods in the chevy journal size. I went with Diamond racing pistons and shooting for a 9.8 compression ration with my current 440 source heads. I may switch to the trick flow 240 ones it they need work. I have had them for 9 years now.

I'm also going with a hydraulic roller cam! I was shopping around and found Howards Cams! Here is what drew me in. They offer lots of cams for the roller 440 and offer them in 112 lobe separation angle! So it will idle like a stocker! You can get them in 110 and 108 if you want a choppy idle. I chose 720555-12. Rpm range is 2000-6200, intake lift .520, exhaust lift .530. duration @.50 int 229 (282 adv) and exh 235 (288 adv). Should idel smooth and rip to 5k. I have the short block assembled and started disassembling the other motor to swap the top end and get pushrods made but life got in the way.
 
Sounds great Darkrapid. I hope you get it all going with the roller cam. Love to hear your thoughts. So much helpful info here from all you guys. This is great.
 
Depends on the spring tension of the points. BS are prob the best new ones out there or Accel. I have not done new BS in a while bud did some acell a bit ago and remember they both were over 20.
 
If you are going to spend the money to build a stroker why would you not want to give it the best spark possible? My 2 cents is that any engine built for better performance should have 2 things; electronic ignition and a rev/RPM limiter. The Rev-N-Ator (not sure on the spelling) ignition module with a settable rev limiter in my '68 has saved my engine on more than one occasion. Stuff happens and while these are not cheap they are priceless in terms of saving your engine from a missed shift etc.
 
Hmmm. I have a couple of MSD boxes left over from a BMW M10 race engine. Lots of rev limiter chips. I never thought of using one on an Imperial engine.

Probably won’t, because I want stock-ish appearing too. But food for thought.
 
Back
Top