Mini Starter Woes....

[imperigal]

I'm perplexed. I've got a 73 T&C 440 on which the original starter began working intermittently. I wanted to replace it with a mini-starter, so i bought one for a 94 Dodge Dakota 5.2L. I've done this before with no issue. Everything is installed, I turn the key and the starter just spins. Doesn't engage. Teeth were in good condition on the trans side. What gives? Any help appreciated

 

[LocuMob]

If you used a shim, take it out and see if that difference matters. Only thing off the top of my head. The starter should pop out to the same depth so maybe it was built/remaned wrong.

 

[Davea Lux]

Check to see if the drive moves freely outward when you bench test it. Did you check the application chart to be sure you have the right starter for your car? As a personal preference, I use the old style large starters, found them to be more reliable.

Dave

 

[65sporty]

I would bench test it to make sure the drive is coming out when it spins

 

[Carmine]

Suspect starter solinoid on new starter is not throwing out the drive gear to meet the ring gear. The shim/converter sheild is probably 1/32" of an inch, not enough to cause an issue. I've had a parts-store mini starter on my BB 400 truck for 17 years.

Try removing it, reconnect the wiring, ground the case and hit the key. Confirm (or not) that the drive gear shoots forward.

 

[imperigal]

Looks like I know what I'm doing this morning!! Thanks - will update later.

 

[detmatt]

I like the mini starters, I’ll never go back to the oem units.

 

[mr. fix it]

I like the mini starters, I’ll never go back to the oem units.

But Matt, don't you find the left side of the car is lighter and will cause the car to pull right when accelerating quickly?

 

[detmatt]

But Matt, don't you find the left side of the car is lighter and will cause the car to pull right when accelerating quickly?

Nope it doesn’t pull but I’m told the left front wheel comes off the ground under hard acceleration.

 

[CBODY67]

Using lighter components can allow for other "weight gains" to happen with little consequence in other areas (like the driver's seat).

 

[imperigal]

Bench tested it, works just fine. Other than the super thin shield, there are no shims. Side by side, it looks like both of the drives extend the same distance. Any other ideas?

 

[CBODY67]

So, bench testing indicates the solenoid kicks the drive gear into the "engaged" position and the drive gear spins? But on the car, it does not engage, but just spins?

CBODY67

 

[imperigal]

Yes - acts fine off the car. On the car it isn't engaging the flywheel. My random thoughts....trans somehow not compatible? (But it worked with the old one) Not enough juice to the starter? (Enough to spin but not for the solenoid to kick out?) It was a fluke and when I reinstall it it will work fine??? (Wishful thinking)

 

[CBODY67]

(Wondering if what was making the orig starter work intermittently is still at work?) Really a starter issue rather than something else causing it?

 

[Carmine]

Yes - acts fine off the car. On the car it isn't engaging the flywheel. My random thoughts....trans somehow not compatible? (But it worked with the old one) Not enough juice to the starter? (Enough to spin but not for the solenoid to kick out?) It was a fluke and when I reinstall it it will work fine??? (Wishful thinking)

Did this bench test occur on an actual bench, or using the car's wiring as I was trying to imply? I've never seen a solenoid that was "weak" on a starter, but I have seen it elsewhere. In other words, it moves with no load, but can't press the gear into the ring gear.

If it came from Murray's/pep boys/zone/etc., I'd just swap it out and try another. I've never encountered a fitment/engagement issue (or heard of one) using the mini starter.

 

[Carmine]

(Wondering if what was making the orig starter work intermittently is still at work?) Really a starter issue rather than something else causing it?

That's why I was suggesting the car's wiring... although I don't know how you could engage the motor without the solenoid. Anything that prevent the solenoid also cuts the motor... Neutral safety, relay... But perhaps an intermittent or weak (yellow as I recall) wire to the solenoid.

 

[commando1]

I'll keep it short because the whole explanation is extremely long.
Many mini starters won't work because the mounting flange is improperly machined. It looks like the starter fits perfectly but it's not.
TWICE, I've had to take a grinder to them to fit perfectly flush and aligned.
One of them was from Bouchelon and I paid top dollar for.

 

[imperigal]

Update....tried it with the car's wiring and it appears to be working fine. All I can figure it that the connection wasn't clean enough? Should I test the voltage at the red and yellow? Installing it now.

 

[detmatt]

I think I’d visually compare the new and old mounting flanges to see if there’s anything obvious and if there’s nothing reinstall.
Have we seen this beauty? I’m just realizing we’re practically neighbors.

 

[imperigal]

Looking at them side by side, the flanges look identical. I took pics but my phone it too wimpy to muster up enough memory to post them. I'll post later from the laptop