60 413 engine 8 bolt flange no flex plate crank swap for 6 bolt flange 62 up crank

Just so it's said because levels of experience vary, that transmission is one heavy awkward SOB, so if you are yanking that thing at home on your back, be careful! Work slow and sober, do not cut safety corners and be damn sure to have the correct jacks/stabilizers and help. It's much easier pulling the motor and transmission as a unit. I learned this lesson the hard way so be careful. Use a paint pen to mark the tailshaft of the crank and torque converter for realignment and remove the 8 nuts before taking it out of the car, remove any hard to get to bolts but leave it largely bolted to the engine, I dunno why my memory says there is one PITA bolt inside the bell housing... might want to verify this.
 
On the cast iron TF you can leave the converter and bellhousing on the engine and remove the trans only. The FSM will tell you this.

Yes they are heavy so support it well and good to have a helper getting it out.
 
I just got through going through the '61, '62, and '63 parts books. Normal 413 standard-size pistons are the same part number, 1961 and 1962. 1879337 Looks like their first use was in 1958 model year, from the part number series. Would this answer the piston weight question?
 
Back in
Hello , I just want to verify a 62 model 413 engine 6 bolt flange crankshaft for use with its flexplate for a 62 up aluminum Torqueflite , will drop into the 60 model 413 engine in my 60 Imperial , in place of its 8 bolt flange crankshaft / w / no flexplate used with its cast iron 61 and back cast iron Torqueflite. From what I can tell it should swap out , of course with new bearings and rear main seal . The cast iron pushbutton Torqueflite has lost reverse . I have a newly overhauled 62 up aluminum Torqueflite from a 62 Imperial parts car I no longer own. . Parts are readily available and far cheaper for aluminum Torqueflites if ever needed in the future , but cast iron Torqueflite parts , especially hard parts , if needed are scarce and expensive . Both have the rear drum park brake and no park pawl , so will swap easily other than the crankshaft . I have a couple of the 62 up gear reduction starters to use with the aluminum Tflite . 63 up they put a cable operated park pawl in the aluminum Torqueflites , and added park mechanisms to the rear drum brakes . Thanks for the help .
Back in the day, the usual failure mode was caused by people starting the car in the driveway or garage by tapping the gas pedal, setting the automatic choke and fast idle, and then pushing the reverse button before blipping the throttle to bring the idle down first. This resulted in the rear band breaking loose after so many times over the years. The rest of the tranny is probably fine, just the reverse band (especially if you have 1st gear). Repairing the cast iron unit is going to be much less hassle. I believe the aluminum TF won't land on the transmission crossmember the same way the cast iron one does, so you'll also run into an issue there if you make the swap.
 
Back in

Back in the day, the usual failure mode was caused by people starting the car in the driveway or garage by tapping the gas pedal, setting the automatic choke and fast idle, and then pushing the reverse button before blipping the throttle to bring the idle down first. This resulted in the rear band breaking loose after so many times over the years. The rest of the tranny is probably fine, just the reverse band (especially if you have 1st gear). Repairing the cast iron unit is going to be much less hassle. I believe the aluminum TF won't land on the transmission crossmember the same way the cast iron one does, so you'll also run into an issue there if you make the swap.
Might need to download the parts books I looked at last night to get illustrations of the rear transmission mounts between the two model years and transmission variations.

By observation, some things which are suspected to be "bolt-in" situations have "side issues" which need to be addressed and considered. ALWAYS best to look at these things BEFORE making the change, to me.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
Sounds like you have done your homework on this. I like your game plan. The cast iron TF is a good unit, and if you can rebuild it yourself so much better for the wallet. The OH kit is still expensive though. Yes the shift cables are the same, I swapped one one time.

Joanne's is closing down for good in April so you won't have to avoid that on future trips!
Really ?! I hadn’t heard that . My wife has as almost as many craft gadgets as I have Snap On tools and equipment in my home shop in 50 years of wrenching . Whenever she wants yet another new paper machine gadget from Joanne’s or Hobby Lobby , if I ask , Do you really need that one too ? She looks straight at me and says “ Hello , Mister I gotta have this new tool , these gadgets are my Snap On tools “ . That ends that discussion lol, and I just get out my wallet .

She didn’t complain though when I told her I adopted a “Cat “ awhile back , and showed up with an O4 Jag XJR supercharged sedan that a late friend , who I had kept his fleet of dozens of amazing cars running , knew I loved that car , made me such a deal he knew I couldn’t turn it down . I swore I’d never get another Jag after having an XKE years ago was beautiful but painfully unreliable to own ,a 77 XJ12 I restored that was smooth and fast but only got 5 mpg , then a LWB 02 XJ 8 Vanden Plas ( which btw means - “Picnic tables “ on the back of the seats ) ,It was bulletproof reliable much to my surprise , I sold it eventually , Then I drove the supercharged aluminum body light 04 XJR my friend Bill had it was a rocket and got bit by a Jag once again . Over the years I’ve had various cars of all types that I bought broken and revived such as just a few of them , a 66 GTO , 70 Chevelle , 72 455 Grand Prix , 79 Fiat Spyder, Porsches - a 912 , two 928’s , and finally Kermit a lime green 74 911 , the one car I most regret selling , omg what an engine , I never turned on the radio because the engine sound was so glorious , a 2180 stroker dual downdraft Webers Baja Bug with Porsche transaxle that would carry the front wheels into second gear I built , engine included as a teen .
Then the Mopar Bug bit me and hard . I had always wanted an early Hemi powered hot rod . I bought an unassembled incomplete project bare shell 46 Dodge truck rat out of Virginia , because it included a never run or even fully assembled "professionally" built 54 Dodge 241 Red Ram Hemi , 3 deuces , straight zoomies , 64 pushbutton Torqueflite with a Valiant dash pushbutton shifter and loose cables in the many boxes , a 9" locker rear axle , with a bare custom frame . I spent 6 yrs building it up from scratch . The engine had $9k of receipts from a big well equipped VA all Mopar hi perf shop built , I thought well at least the engine would be okay , I paid less for everything than he had in just the engine . Wrong ! the engine was a total disaster , they left out an internal galley plug it wouldn't build or hold oil pressure when I first primed it . I found the missing galley plug and installed one . It made little difference , it ate the impossible to find 241 cam in the first few minutes because they put the cam bearings in wrong . I ultimately just started over on it and spent another $6k on the engine making it right . I learned more about early Hemi's than I ever wanted , but I know every inch of them now. I'd never even seen a pushbutton shifter and cables , but it was easy to figure out and hasn't needed any adjustment since I installed it even the neutral safety switch and illuminated buttons work perfectly . The overhauled Torqueflite shifts great and locker diff definitely works . The rat wrecker is loud and raw but fun , it gets more looks than any fancy car with multiple coats of paint I've had and thumps with the engines heartbeat . I can't do direct sun and over 95 degree heat anymore , and with my wifes weakened respiratory system , she cant breathe in the heat . We needed a comfortable cold A/C car.for hot Texas summers . I was going to do an LS in a 60 Caddy with no engine or trans , but drove a couple hours to look at a one family owned 62 Imperial that ended up languishing in a field a couple decades after its 413 engine was stolen from the Wichita Falls , Tx shop it was at while out for repair . I had never even seen one . It had dual air , was loaded , but in poor shape after being vandalized and open to the weather. I bought it cheap and learned quickly finding parts was going to be difficult . Cadillac outsold Imperials 15:1 but they drive far better with their Torsion Bar suspension , 392 and 413 strong engines , bulletproof Torqueflites , plus many Chrysler innovations such as Auto Pilot cruise control they invented , and bulbless 200v AC instrument illumination that glows like a watch . I bought and stripped a rotted pans 62 Imperial parts car for the interior and exterior parts and glass I needed that also had the non running partially disassembled longblock 413 engine and a spare aluminum transmission I have now.
Things were coming together slowly , then my wife suddenly developed AFIB heart trouble . They did an ablation that stopped the AFIB but two weeks later the lining around her heart became inflamed full of fluid . It was a very scary situation.They did open heart surgery and drained off the fluid . She could breathe better instantly but it caused enough residual damage she will need supplemental oxygen 24/7 . While she was recovering she was laid off along with 1650 others , from the company she had been working for after the economy slowed . She had made nearly six figures . Our situation changed very quickly to just me working . We are a year into trying to get her Social Security disability using an attorney that specializes in only that. They always turn down the first request we are waiting on the appeal . She had multiple other major health issues prior to the heart problems, that were worsened , her doctors here all agree she qualifies several times over and got her a tag for the car so at least she can park closer in disabled spots . The attorney says she will get it but it’s a very slow process .Fun with big government . I can’t imagine living without her she is amazing .

Once everything was out , The floor pan in the 62 turned out to be much worse than it initially appeared I couldn’t afford to spend at least $40k on a likely $10k value car when done even with me doing all the work except the paint , interior floor pan , and all new upholstery . I knew going in it would cost more to restore than its value , that’s normal for most project cars , but really liked the car and liked I’d probably never see another one at a car show they are so unique. I made the decision to stop on the 62 , took off what I could use , and donated it to Trenton at Browne Salvage in Sunset , Tx who has always treated me fairly to add to his vast number of vintage salvage yard cars . It’s like old car Heaven . I’d seen a clean looking running 60 model Imperial with no reverse listed for sale a few times . The price dropped as time went on when it would pop up . Next time it was listed I drove out to look at it . It had been parked indoors and overall in good condition plus it was complete , it ran , and it had dual A/C . The vintage car magazine reviews by Tom McCahill said even on the hottest triple digit summer days imaginable, the dual A/C made it like the North Pole inside .
I made him a lower offer and we struck a deal . I love the 60 Imperial even better . The unique rings of Saturn look taillights with red cone lenses are one year only and very hard to find . Someone had substituted shorter Valiant lenses that would work but didn’t look right . I got lucky a guy found a pair in the trunk of a 55 Chevy he bought that the previous owner had thought of using to customize it . I drove out and met the guy and voila ! I had the correct taillights . I had already rebuilt the 200v AC Panelescent dash lights power supply on my 62 , I did the same on the 60 and its huge dinner plate sized instruments came to life again . I need to fix a couple of the tiny hair sized wires that power the red needles to make them glow , I learned on the 62 to use a drop of special conductive glue to reattach them . They are so thin they just melt if soldered . With the weight of these Imperials and huge C bodies in general somehow it seems only right it would have a cast iron transmission . So that’s the plan hopefully the hard parts are okay and it just needs a band and kit . I’ll know when I take it apart , I look forward to driving it . Thanks !

IMG_7908.jpeg


IMG_1189.jpeg


IMG_7902.jpeg




IMG_0743.jpeg


IMG_6213.jpeg


IMG_0520.jpeg


IMG_0525.jpeg


IMG_8980.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Just so it's said because levels of experience vary, that transmission is one heavy awkward SOB, so if you are yanking that thing at home on your back, be careful! Work slow and sober, do not cut safety corners and be damn sure to have the correct jacks/stabilizers and help. It's much easier pulling the motor and transmission as a unit. I learned this lesson the hard way so be careful. Use a paint pen to mark the tailshaft of the crank and torque converter for realignment and remove the 8 nuts before taking it out of the car, remove any hard to get to bolts but leave it largely bolted to the engine, I dunno why my memory says there is one PITA bolt inside the bell housing... might want to verify this.
Thank you , yeah it’s heavy no doubt . I have a stout Benwil two post 60’s vintage 7000 lb lift that picks up the Imperial like it’s nothing and a good trans Jack with extra chains I put on to hold the transmissions securely. Working on the ground was okay as a kid but now not so much . I don’t think the lift even felt the Delorean I have on it now that I’m doing additional work on , after going through it front to back bringing it back from the dead for its owner a year ago . The clutch slave cylinder finally failed it’s one of the Hardest jobs to do on them with very difficult access. I’ve got it done and updated with the stainless line and remote bleeder kit that makes bleeding the clutch a 15 minute job by relocating the bleeder on an extended line where it’s easy to get to . It’s working great now . Not fun but it will earn me funds to fix my Imperial. His buddy has one with only 18k miles but that’s been sitting for years so I know it will need front to back work as well. At my age I found I kinda like working on them they are small and parts are light . I think the RV2 A/C compressor on my Imperial weighs about as much as the engine on the Delorean . I had customers with them new in the 80’s hadn’t seen one in years when I agreed to work on this one . They are way easier than new cars I see now , and I know it’s Kjet CIS injection system inside out after working on that system on most Euros years ago. Gotta do what I gotta do to pay bills and get funds to fix my Imperial .
 
Might need to download the parts books I looked at last night to get illustrations of the rear transmission mounts between the two model years and transmission variations.

By observation, some things which are suspected to be "bolt-in" situations have "side issues" which need to be addressed and considered. ALWAYS best to look at these things BEFORE making the change, to me.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
I received the cast iron Tflite overhaul book from Fatsco and going to buy the one way sprag assembly tool . I wish I hadn’t sold my foot operated clutch pack press when I was a Snap On dealer. Almost Everything I sold thinking I wouldn’t need it anymore , I’ve bought back but fortunately for Pennies on the dollar what I paid originally . I finally found a Snap on air operated choke checker with no moving parts inside just a Venturi . It blows hot air out one end and ice cold air out the other . We used to use them to freeze or heat the choke coil on carburetors . Now I use it to cool off on hot days and heat or chill sensors quickly. Found a complete Snap on counselor 1 scope for $150 I use on the older vehicle ignition systems . I paid $3k for one new in the 80’s with all accessories . Bought a couple of sliding upper control arm tools I’d sold , for $20 each on EBay to easily adjust alignment on an old Lincoln . Not selling any old tools again . I loaned a guy a full set of no longer made on car transmission rear tailshaft bushing remover and installers that does that job and a new rear seal in 15 min with the driveshaft out . He wanted to buy them told him I’ll loan them anytime but no sale . I want a Sun distributor machine I used as a teen frequently setting up single and dual point distributors just because it’s relaxing to use and cool to watch flash .

IMG_2943.jpeg


IMG_5705.jpeg


IMG_0899.jpeg


IMG_0903.png


IMG_2049.jpeg


IMG_2053.jpeg
 
Thank you , yeah it’s heavy no doubt . I have a stout Benwil two post 60’s vintage 7000 lb lift that picks up the Imperial like it’s nothing and a good trans Jack with extra chains I put on to hold the transmissions securely. Working on the ground was okay as a kid but now not so much . I don’t think the lift even felt the Delorean I have on it now that I’m doing additional work on , after going through it front to back bringing it back from the dead for its owner a year ago . The clutch slave cylinder finally failed it’s one of the Hardest jobs to do on them with very difficult access. I’ve got it done and updated with the stainless line and remote bleeder kit that makes bleeding the clutch a 15 minute job by relocating the bleeder on an extended line where it’s easy to get to . It’s working great now . Not fun but it will earn me funds to fix my Imperial. His buddy has one with only 18k miles but that’s been sitting for years so I know it will need front to back work as well. At my age I found I kinda like working on them they are small and parts are light . I think the RV2 A/C compressor on my Imperial weighs about as much as the engine on the Delorean . I had customers with them new in the 80’s hadn’t seen one in years when I agreed to work on this one . They are way easier than new cars I see now , and I know it’s Kjet CIS injection system inside out after working on that system on most Euros years ago. Gotta do what I gotta do to pay bills and get funds to fix my Imperial .

IMG_9475.jpeg


IMG_9476.jpeg


IMG_9474.jpeg


76480758988__A70748A8-0C69-4CBF-928B-8BA4755FFCF6.jpeg
 
On the cast iron TF you can leave the converter and bellhousing on the engine and remove the trans only. The FSM will tell you this.

Yes they are heavy so support it well and good to have a helper getting it out.
Yes it looks like it unbolts from the bell housing like a standard transmission
I called Precision Torque converters that are the only torque converters the transmission shop I most recently worked used for over 40 years . They said yes they can rebuild the converter no problem . The old ones are way simpler than the torque converters with clutches in them now in use . I have a 60 factory service manual and body assembly manual .
 
I just got through going through the '61, '62, and '63 parts books. Normal 413 standard-size pistons are the same part number, 1961 and 1962. 1879337 Looks like their first use was in 1958 model year, from the part number series. Would this answer the piston weight question?
That’s pretty definitive should be the same . Unless using custom cast ones made out of wheel weights and pot metal made on the ground in India like I see on FB sometimes . Gotta hand it to them they are creative fixing stuff lol
 
Back
Top