brougham brummel
Well-Known Member
Marriage isn,t for me.You have to find the right person.I,m 54 so nobody busting down my door.heh.I,ll take the car.heh.
SOLD 71 monaco survivor $10,500
- Thread starter black c
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Michel, the emblems on my 71 Monaco are in the same places as on this black car. My car was repainted at one time, but it was a nice paint job and as such, I would have expected they put the emblems back in the same place.
It isn't unusual for a showroom brochure to not necessarily match what they actually produced.
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
Oh I just love that car. Cant wait to see it done!
Thanks a lot -- super clear photos. I am afraid, however, that the mystery only deepens!
Attached are two photos of the black car that, AFAIK, have not been posted on FCBO before. They were taken while the car was still on this side of the Atlantic and were recently shared with me by @Beep Beep Dave -- who told me that I could post them. Notice that:
1. the location of the Monaco badging and emblem (the medallion or "coat of arms") indeed is the same on the black car (now @Autoengineer's) and on the green car (@saforwardlook's);
2. BUT I don't see any laurels below the Monaco medallions on the black car’s rear quarter panels, whereas it's hard to miss them on Steve's green car.
3. On p.17 of the 1971 Dodge Dealer Data Book, we do see all three items in the same location as on Steve's car -- but that is for a Brougham model, which was 4-door only (excerpt of the scan below for convenience -- the full original is made available kindly by the Hamtramck Registry website). Yet, Steve's car is a coupe. (Caveat: The text of the Data Book only mentions the addition of the "Brougham" script on the Brougham models, leaving open the possibility that the laurels were also present on other Monaco's).
4. Finally, let me bring up a third 1971 Monaco -- Steve's gold parts car. That car is missing its coat of arms on both sides, but from a photo in this thread, it seems that the surviving Monaco script is located at the same place as in the Dodge brochure! (Steve may be able to post a better photo of the area in question, establishing this point).
--> Assuming all the cars still look like the day when they were built, I am starting to suspect (HYPOTHESIS) that the number and location of the emblems (Monaco script, coat of arms, laurels) may depend on when a given car was built (or maybe, if those were stick-ons, on the plant where the car was built).
The triple black car was built on February 8th in Belvidere.
--> @saforwardlook, would you be willing to share when/where your two 1971 Monaco's were built? I have a hunch that your gold parts car was built before February 8, whereas your green car was built after February 8.
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brougham brummel
Well-Known Member
Wow.I,m so impressed by the Monaco passion.Keep these from the derby guys and the crusher.B.B
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
Neither of my two doors is a Brougham model and I do believe that was a package only available on the 4 doors AFAIK. I will check out the build dates a get back with you when the weather is more obliging.
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
I thought you only had good weather Steve? What gives?
If memory serves me correct a Monaco Brougham package is only available on the 4dr Hardtop.
I thought you only had good weather Steve? What gives?
If memory serves me correct a Monaco Brougham package is only available on the 4dr Hardtop.
We have definitely had our share of rain this year. It never stops it seems. But no complaints, and the only snow I see is a good blanket in the mountains behind me. Very beautiful sight.
I could ask Peter Swainson the original owner’s son if he remembers but I doubt a detail like that would stand out enough. I have asked if there are any pictures or history of the car still with the Dealership but didn’t get anything useful. They were surprised the car was in Europe though.
OK, back to the badge location question. Here are two cars for further illustration:
1. This 4-door Brougham (I think), which was for sale in Iowa a few months back, seems to have the badges as shown in the data book. Thanks to @polara71 for posting/saving the photo for posterity at the time.
2. I am rather confused by this 4-door Monaco, which lacked a title and @71Polara383 recycled last year. The medallions are WAY above the Monaco sign on both sides. However, the LHS and RHS Monaco scripts are in different places. One might suspect that the location is not factory-original, and that the car has been repainted. HOWEVER, compare the passenger-side Monaco script locations on the triple-black car and on this one -- they're the same! In other words, it might well be that this is the correct location.
3. Finally, I submit the RHS of yet another green 1971 Monaco, this one a 2-door with a 383 that was photographed 21+ years ago at Carlisle. The positioning of the medallion relative to the Monaco script is the same as in the black car and in Wyatt's car BUT the Monaco script on Wyatt's and the Jukka's cars is further aft.
Bottom line, the mystery continues.
1. This 4-door Brougham (I think), which was for sale in Iowa a few months back, seems to have the badges as shown in the data book. Thanks to @polara71 for posting/saving the photo for posterity at the time.
2. I am rather confused by this 4-door Monaco, which lacked a title and @71Polara383 recycled last year. The medallions are WAY above the Monaco sign on both sides. However, the LHS and RHS Monaco scripts are in different places. One might suspect that the location is not factory-original, and that the car has been repainted. HOWEVER, compare the passenger-side Monaco script locations on the triple-black car and on this one -- they're the same! In other words, it might well be that this is the correct location.
3. Finally, I submit the RHS of yet another green 1971 Monaco, this one a 2-door with a 383 that was photographed 21+ years ago at Carlisle. The positioning of the medallion relative to the Monaco script is the same as in the black car and in Wyatt's car BUT the Monaco script on Wyatt's and the Jukka's cars is further aft.
Bottom line, the mystery continues.
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@saforwardlook has kindly shared that his GY8 and GF3 Monaco coupes were both built in early- to mid-fall 1970. Given their badging differs, I am starting to think that the build date is unlikely to be the determinant. HOWEVER, the cars came from different plants AND...
--> His green car, whose badging (minus the laurel wreath) matches that of the black car, was (like the black car) built in Belvedere.
--> His gold car's Monaco badging (also missing the medallion and Brett of laurels) matches that of a GY9 car that has been repainted. Both cars were built in Newark, Delaware.
It'd be interesting (at least to me) if the badging location varied with the plant.
Folks, Steve has stepped up to the plate, and so has Wyatt. We need more data points from 1971 Monaco owners -- including photos, info on repaints (if any), and tag info (plant and build date).
--> His green car, whose badging (minus the laurel wreath) matches that of the black car, was (like the black car) built in Belvedere.
--> His gold car's Monaco badging (also missing the medallion and Brett of laurels) matches that of a GY9 car that has been repainted. Both cars were built in Newark, Delaware.
It'd be interesting (at least to me) if the badging location varied with the plant.
Folks, Steve has stepped up to the plate, and so has Wyatt. We need more data points from 1971 Monaco owners -- including photos, info on repaints (if any), and tag info (plant and build date).
Not that many out there.
Oh ye of little faith. We don't need them all alive, epitaphs or memorials will do!
Here is another Monaco coupe, this one bought by Wyatt from Steve. Look at the location of the Monaco script on the passenger-side rear quarter panel: if my theory is correct, then that location screams "Newark-built" -- and guess what, Wyatt just told me that it was indeed built in Delaware.
This being said, the Steve/Wyatt blue car's medallion (coat of arms) is missing on the passenger's side, and the one on the driver's side seems to be positioned as in Steve's GF3 and Jukka's TX9 coupes -- not like on the Dodge brochure.
Bottom line, we are not out of the woods yet. Folks, keep the pics and stories coming!
PS: I very much doubt that, if a car was ever repainted, the Monaco script (part nbr 2839 929 -- thanks @Bill Watson) would have been moved. To see why, note that it has three prongs -- so there would be holes, and no one in their right minds should want to create/plug holes to simply relocate the script. An eBay listing has the relevant photos (interestingly, it states that the same part nbr can be used on 1968 Monaco decklids, 1971 Monaco 1/4 panels, and 1977 Monaco fenders!)
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Your obsession is intriguing . . . What's with the interest?
fc7_plumcrazy
Old Man with a Hat
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we are all here.
Dave,Ayilar, Wyatt, Fred and me
Change of emblems will probably -as known from several other models- have changed during the modelyear. Depending on the stock in the plants the date when it was changed might differ slightly.
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Patrick1972demon
New Member
71monacomoparmechanic
Member
I think its underpriced. That is one of a kind
Fratzog
Old Man with a Hat
The passion reminds me of myself 15 years ago when we were trying to sort out the Fratzog bumper thing. Nice to see the torch being passed on.
@71Polara383's latest donor car, a '71 Monaco coupe delivered today from PA, was also built at the Delaware plant.
--> Guess where the laurel wreaths and coat of arms are located?
--> In the same vein, the Monaco rear-quarter scripts on Wyatt's GJ4 donor coupe are positioned symmetrically on both sides, as predicted by the plant info. Same position on all cars I've seen from Delaware (e.g., mine, @saforwardlook's GY8 parts car, @71Polara383's Monacucamonga and GJ4 donor, etc.). On all the Belvedere cars I've seen (e.g., @saforwardlook's GF3, @Autoengineer's TX9, etc.), the driver-side script is positioned at the same place as on the Delaware cars BUT the passenger-side script starts further aft.
Whereas the wreath and emblem are glued (that's why so many are missing), the script is stamped in. As a result, it is difficult to lose the script even when cars are getting repainted.
WILD GUESS: 4-door Broughams were built in Belvedere but not in Delaware, and the Belvedere folks adjusted the location of the three holes needed for the script according to the need for the Broughams. Then, as two-doors were rolling on the same production line, they got the same treatment -- generating the observed pattern.
Anyone care to demolish/disprove this theory?
--> Guess where the laurel wreaths and coat of arms are located?
--> In the same vein, the Monaco rear-quarter scripts on Wyatt's GJ4 donor coupe are positioned symmetrically on both sides, as predicted by the plant info. Same position on all cars I've seen from Delaware (e.g., mine, @saforwardlook's GY8 parts car, @71Polara383's Monacucamonga and GJ4 donor, etc.). On all the Belvedere cars I've seen (e.g., @saforwardlook's GF3, @Autoengineer's TX9, etc.), the driver-side script is positioned at the same place as on the Delaware cars BUT the passenger-side script starts further aft.
Whereas the wreath and emblem are glued (that's why so many are missing), the script is stamped in. As a result, it is difficult to lose the script even when cars are getting repainted.
WILD GUESS: 4-door Broughams were built in Belvedere but not in Delaware, and the Belvedere folks adjusted the location of the three holes needed for the script according to the need for the Broughams. Then, as two-doors were rolling on the same production line, they got the same treatment -- generating the observed pattern.
Anyone care to demolish/disprove this theory?
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