727 Teardown & Inspection

[jcslocum]

The trans in my ‘66 Fury Wagon failed last week. It’s been going bad and needs a rebuild. In advance e of its demise, I picked up a used trans from a motor home and intend to use some of the heavier parts in my rebuild of the original trans in the car. I began the disassembly of the Moho trans and took some pics. this is my first auto trans rebuild, so any input is appreciated.

some swarf and grit on the filter and in the pan.

The steels show some hot spots.

The bands don’t look bad to me. But I know nothing at this point!

The clutches I have pulled out look ok too.

And 1 bushing.

I have no idea what part the metal in the pan came from. I also have no history for the trans, other than it came from a 440 Moho.

Are these parts “factory” or does it look like rebuild parts?

I plan on buying what’s needed to rebuild it right.

 

[413]

What is the power level of the 66 wagon? What kind of driving do you do?

Why are you combining the two? Be very careful, the parts are different on 62-66

The input shaft and stator support are smaller on 66 and older. Front clutch drum different. Splines on output shaft and planetaries are different also. 66/older and 67/ newer they made many changes.

you need to keep all these parts separate from your 66 trans when you take it apart. Best would be to rebuild the 66 with its stock parts. Unless you have 600 horsepower and are going drag racing.

 

[mikedrini]

The "How To Rebuild" book might be worthwhile.

 

[jcslocum]

At the minimum, I want to use the front pump, so I can use a modern torque converter. Also any of the heavier bits that will fit.

 

[413]

Well to change the front pump you change the stator support, input shaft, and high gear clutch drum also. So now you need a 71 and newer rebuild kit.

you most likely have 3 pinion planetaries and they are plenty strong enough.

Again what kind of driving do you do? What engine was originally in the 66? What kind of power do you have now?

 

[gyknot]

The torqueflite is not a difficult trans to rebuild and kits are very available and fairly inexpensive.
What little residue that was in the trans you took apart is not bad at all. Other than the burn marks on the steels the other parts look pretty decent.
With that said, I'd buy a master rebuild kit and replace it all anyways. I always keep good leftover parts for the future. Heck I almost completely rebuilt the 727 in my plow truck from all used bands and clutches. Its been plowing for 5 years now and still holds great.

Not being afraid to tear into one is the biggest hurdle and you have already passed that one!

 

[Davea Lux]

As a general commentary: The steels show hot spots because they have been in contact with slipping clutch frictions, usually caused by an internal seal leak or a failing pump. If you are going to the trouble of disassembling the transmission, Put in new clutch packs, bands and bushings as well as a rebuilt convertor. Do the job right the first time and it should be good for 100k in normal use. The fairly large metal chunks are pump fragments, bearing material or chunks from a failing planetary system. Carefully inspect and replace these components as needed. If you plan to update the '66 transmission to the later input shafts and convertor, you will be replacing the front pump and convertor anyway. You would also want to either replace the valve body or install the update kit to bring the transmission to the '71 and later downshift pattern and as noted you will need the '71 and later kit. The update process is simpler if you have a motor home transmission that is '71 and later.

Dave

 

[jcslocum]

The car right now has the 318 Poly in it. Sometime later next year, I will install a warmed up 354 Hemi. So the rebuild will have to be strong enough handle the change in power.

There will be some trips to the drag strip, 2-4 per year. Car shows, cruise long distances, tow the Airstream, etc... it’s one of a few cars that I own, so not massive mileage.

 

[Davea Lux]

The car right now has the 318 Poly in it. Sometime later next year, I will install a warmed up 354 Hemi. So the rebuild will have to be strong enough handle the change in power.

There will be some trips to the drag strip, 2-4 per year. Car shows, cruise long distances, tow the Airstream, etc... it’s one of a few cars that I own, so not massive mileage.

The A727 will not bolt up to a 354 Hemi. There was a design change in '62. Transmissions prior to '62 did not use a flex plate, the convertor bolted directly to a large flange on the crank shaft. The '61 and older transmissions also are cast iron with a replaceable bell housing that allowed the transmission to be bolted to variety of engines. Years ago, there was an adapter kit to make the swap from the cast iron transmission to the A-727, but I do not know if those are still available.

Dave

 

[jcslocum]

Dave, thanks for this info. Hot Heads makes or gets the adaptors.

http://www.hothemiheads.com/transmission_adapters/adapter_torqueflite.html

 

[Gerald Morris]

As a general commentary: The steels ....
....The update process is simpler if you have a motor home transmission that is '71 and later.

Dave

Thank you for this sage advice to another Moparian! I will use it myself when ready, as I have an RV 727 and want to rebuild a 1966 727 for more modern converters and such too. I'm in no hurry, having a VERY GOOD build with the one I hired a shop to do 3 yrs ago, but I want to experiment just the same.... My RV tranny is a '77 727, so that should be well as far as modernity goes for those.

 

[Davea Lux]

Thank you for this sage advice to another Moparian! I will use it myself when ready, as I have an RV 727 and want to rebuild a 1966 727 for more modern converters and such too. I'm in no hurry, having a VERY GOOD build with the one I hired a shop to do 3 yrs ago, but I want to experiment just the same.... My RV tranny is a '77 727, so that should be well as far as modernity goes for those.

The one thing you would want to check about running either a '77-'78 A727 is that in the automotive and lighter truck applications they ran a low by pass convertor to increase efficiency. Small blocks got lockers, big blocks got low by pass units. The low by pass convertors worked well but as they had less oil circulating, they tended to run hotter and degrade the oil more quickly, so service intervals were shorter. As long as the oil was changed regularily those transmissions held up pretty well. If the service intervals got too long, the transmission oil got burned and the transmission varnished up.

Dave

 

[Mr C]

Install a part throttle kickdown on the valve body while you're at it (there may be one on the RV trans already...depending on year). Improves driveability a great measure.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Use everything you can from 71 up trans. Pump, input, valve body, only thing to beware is a spline change around '75-76 at the main shaft front end, it will go together but shape is not correct.

 

[stubs300]

Install a part throttle kickdown on the valve body while you're at it (there may be one on the RV trans already...depending on year). Improves driveability a great measure.

I did that with a /6, it's so much better to drive now.

 

[413]

I did that with a /6, it's so much better to drive now.

Yes, low power needs the kickdown more than a 440.

 

[jcslocum]

There must be thousands of kits with prices all over the place. It seems like the best parts to buy are the red clutches and Kolene steels. I know there are other parts that should be replaced. What else is recommended? Servo pistons?

I already have the kick down kit

 

[stubs300]

As a general commentary: The steels show hot spots because they have been in contact with slipping clutch frictions, usually caused by an internal seal leak or a failing pump. If you are going to the trouble of disassembling the transmission, Put in new clutch packs, bands and bushings as well as a rebuilt convertor. Do the job right the first time and it should be good for 100k in normal use. The fairly large metal chunks are pump fragments, bearing material or chunks from a failing planetary system. Carefully inspect and replace these components as needed. If you plan to update the '66 transmission to the later input shafts and convertor, you will be replacing the front pump and convertor anyway. You would also want to either replace the valve body or install the update kit to bring the transmission to the '71 and later downshift pattern and as noted you will need the '71 and later kit. The update process is simpler if you have a motor home transmission that is '71 and later.Dave

There must be thousands of kits with prices all over the place. It seems like the best parts to buy are the red clutches and Kolene steels. I know there are other parts that should be replaced. What else is recommended? Servo pistons?

I already have the kick down kit

I guess your comprehension isn't that great?

 

[jcslocum]

I appreciate your kind comment.

just a noob here asking for advice for something I have never done. So far folks have been helpful. You, not so much.

 

[stubs300]

Sorry your pussy hurts, but your question has already been answered by Davea!