Cat’s Out Of The Bag, ‘65 300L Manual Trans, A/C and More

[Ross Wooldridge]

I think it has a lot to do with the degree-ing of the camshaft and the overall condition of the engine and its ability to move air.

Many years ago I had a 383 that would happily roast the tires just putting your foot down at idle - I had to have it rebuilt and they used some generic cam that was supposed to wake it up, and it was a dog off the line, which was where I wanted the torque.

 

[haywire 440]

The Midland Ross drum power booster was removed. It will be sent out for rebuilding to Midwest Power Brake Products, Florida. I’ve had other work done there. Any other suggestions or comments?

Removing it was a PITA, but after removing the front power seat it was accomplished. Of course two of the nuts dropped behind the carpeting but were retrieved.

The single master cylinder will be replaced with a dual and though it’s been discussed here what is the recommended unit?

The aluminum tag attached to the Midland Ross was cleaned up and straightened. 1965-C, C-4212-A is what is stamped.

It was a battle disconnecting the bolt and nut holding the rod to the pedal. I sure it’s what everyone goes through. The bolt gets stuck when hitting the electrical connection as shown in the pictures.

Edit: By jiggled the power booster from the outside (no hood in the way) that bolt releases from the pedal easily.

Then comes the 4 nuts holding the power booster. Below is the only one I could get my fingers on.

Here’s the mess. I had removed the washer fluid pump just after reading here the helpful suggestion of getting a replacement from the Mustang parts sales sight.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Been there, done all that!! Remove the connector to make room for the brake pedal pivot bolt.

I have a thing with like 4 extensions with a deep socket to get at the booster nuts up under the dash, but you have to have the speedo out to do it. Makes things WAY easier. Tells you about order of operations on the assembly line for sure - that booster was likely one of the first things to be installed!

The tag on the booster indicates to me it went through the reman industry at some point - I don't believe that tag is factory, although I could easily be wrong about that, and if it is, you need to be careful not to lose it!

I suggest using the 68 and up C body drum master cylinder to replace the single pot master, and, although others will chime in here with how you can reuse your original metering block, there is a simple conversion block and line kit from Inline tube that is ready to go to do the task:

1965-66 Mopar A B C Body Dual Master Conversion Distribution Block Tee Valve | eBay

For some reason I can't find the lines that accompany it, but they're out there.

Regardless - don't you want to convert to front discs? I could not be happier with my conversion, and show judges do NOT dock you points for brake upgrades of that nature. Safety first.

 

[haywire 440]

Been there, done all that!! Remove the connector to make room for the brake pedal pivot bolt.

I have a thing with like 4 extensions with a deep socket to get at the booster nuts up under the dash, but you have to have the speedo out to do it. Makes things WAY easier. Tells you about order of operations on the assembly line for sure - that booster was likely one of the first things to be installed!

The tag on the booster indicates to me it went through the reman industry at some point - I don't believe that tag is factory, although I could easily be wrong about that, and if it is, you need to be careful not to lose it!

I suggest using the 68 and up C body drum master cylinder to replace the single pot master, and, although others will chime in here with how you can reuse your original metering block, there is a simple conversion block and line kit from Inline tube that is ready to go to do the task:

1965-66 Mopar A B C Body Dual Master Conversion Distribution Block Tee Valve | eBay

For some reason I can't find the lines that accompany it, but they're out there.

Regardless - don't you want to convert to front discs? I could not be happier with my conversion, and show judges do NOT dock you points for brake upgrades of that nature. Safety first.

I jiggled the power booster from the outside and the bolt easily released.

Thanks for the link to in-line.

For now I am interested in making the car drivable and rebuilding the motor, some front suspension parts, stub-frame bushings and other items are at the top of the list.

I saw recently the recently the re-molding of the bushings. Also I saw that the lower control arms are tough to find but available through Rare Parts. Other suspension parts are obtainable through Rock Auto but only interested in Moog. Plus also Mobile Parts.

Yes Disc brakes will have to be seriously considered too.

Thank you

 

[haywire 440]

The 413 block cylinders/pistons have been soaking for awhile and a few weeks ago the machine shop said the crank was starting to turn.

This week the word came that the pistons, rods and crank were removed. Both the block and crank looked good according to the shop. Some of the rings were removed but others are still stuck.

I’m going next week to see the progress and snap some photos. Word was that two sets of replacement pistons were located, one being 30 over and the other being 40 over. I’d like to find a 10 or 20 over set if that possible. Anyone have some or a connection? Seeing how the block measures up and what boring dimensions are will dictate what is required.

It seems the the 4-groove crankshaft pulley will need to be replaced because of the deteriorated rough surface. I don’t believe the a/c, ps and alt belts would last. Anyone have one of those for a ‘65?

It will be exciting to see the parts.

In the meantime the drum power brake booster was rebuilt by Midwest Power Products, Inc. located now in Florida. Here are some pictures.

The Single vacuum port is what was on before the rebuild so I’ll have to change that out.

 

[LocuMob]

seems the the 4-groove crankshaft pulley will need to be replaced because of the deteriorated rough surface... Anyone have one of those for a ‘65?

I have one off a '66, if you can get a part number I can see if it's the same in my parts book.

 

[haywire 440]

I’ll search my parts book for the number. Cool!

 

[haywire 440]

I have one off a '66, if you can get a part number I can see if it's the same in my parts book.

@LocuMob I see you had books too after re-reading your post.

The number on the pulley is 757, (2465757).

I see in ‘65 it’s listed for the Imperial but in ‘66 it’s listed for both Chrysler & Imperial 440. In ‘65 the 413 is listed as 2465325.

1966

1965

Maybe the 757 is universal in this situation because the * indicates change or additions.
Would someone know if it would make a difference?

 

[haywire 440]

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

It may have superceded to the 757 pulley - regardless, that's the one you have, and it's easier to find I expect, if it crosses over to 66.

 

[fury fan]

The 413 block cylinders/pistons have been soaking for awhile and a few weeks ago the machine shop said the crank was starting to turn.

This week the word came that the pistons, rods and crank were removed. Both the block and crank looked good according to the shop. Some of the rings were removed but others are still stuck.

I’m going next week to see the progress and snap some photos. Word was that two sets of replacement pistons were located, one being 30 over and the other being 40 over. I’d like to find a 10 or 20 over set if that possible. Anyone have some or a connection? Seeing how the block measures up and what boring dimensions are will dictate what is required.

I'd be curious on the compression height on the pistons? Are they going to be <8:1 versions rather than factory?
I'm not in the loop as of late, but last I knew there were no decent 413 pistons on the market, or they had to be custom, anyway.

Here's my 15 min of googling.

These seem to be available in .00 and .020 (and greater).
Compression height is 2.0156.
Egge Piston Set with Pins – Egge Machine Company

This shows 2.02" compression height and gives a 7.5:1 CR. Specifically notes Truck engine.
UEM Pistons

These claim standard compression ratio, but their ad seems a little questionable, esp as it says all 413s from 1959-79.
Chrysler/Dodge V8 Piston Set 1959-79 413

Here's Summit, all teh Silvolites are the #1272D from the link just above, so they are truck pistons.
The Speed-Pro shows a 2.02CH, so it's for truck also.
DODGE 6.8L/413 Pistons - V8 Engine Type - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

Here's a discussion that mentions pistons. There's a commenter in here (lewtot184), I know him and he's pretty knowledgable, I trust his assessments.
413 Recipes Please!

In this thread they mention some Sealed Power #238P that give 9.7:1 with a compression height of 2.00". So somebody is wrong in CH vs resulting CR. Nobody has really mentioned cyl heads and volume, though.
413 pistons

You might ping Nick's Garage and see what they used, they recently finished a rebuild of a '63 shortram 413.

 

[LocuMob]

View attachment 592420

I'd have the pulley off a 383, 2465 326.

 

[haywire 440]

I'd be curious on the compression height on the pistons? Are they going to be <8:1 versions rather than factory?
I'm not in the loop as of late, but last I knew there were no decent 413 pistons on the market, or they had to be custom, anyway.

Here's my 15 min of googling.

These seem to be available in .00 and .020 (and greater).
Compression height is 2.0156.
Egge Piston Set with Pins – Egge Machine Company

This shows 2.02" compression height and gives a 7.5:1 CR. Specifically notes Truck engine.
UEM Pistons

These claim standard compression ratio, but their ad seems a little questionable, esp as it says all 413s from 1959-79.
Chrysler/Dodge V8 Piston Set 1959-79 413

Here's Summit, all teh Silvolites are the #1272D from the link just above, so they are truck pistons.
The Speed-Pro shows a 2.02CH, so it's for truck also.
DODGE 6.8L/413 Pistons - V8 Engine Type - Free Shipping on Orders Over $109 at Summit Racing

Here's a discussion that mentions pistons. There's a commenter in here (lewtot184), I know him and he's pretty knowledgable, I trust his assessments.
413 Recipes Please!

In this thread they mention some Sealed Power #238P that give 9.7:1 with a compression height of 2.00". So somebody is wrong in CH vs resulting CR. Nobody has really mentioned cyl heads and volume, though.
413 pistons

You might ping Nick's Garage and see what they used, they recently finished a rebuild of a '63 shortram 413.

All your insights here will be examined more closely after seeing the components after removal from the block. I had looked at egge pistons but didn’t realize they were low compression truck slugs.
Thank you for the links and details.

About 20 years ago a set of stock 426 wedge pistons came to my attention. I helped advertise them for sale through a car club I belonged to. The buyer was trilled to purchase the set. I never thought I’d find myself in need for them.

Tomorrow I will have time for a story from Nick’s Garage.

 

[haywire 440]

I'd have the pulley off a 383, 2465 326.

Maybe the difference is the pulley diameters. I’ve seen on EBay some 4-groove pulleys with all equal size dimensions. The 757 has one that’s a lot smaller than the other 3.
It seems best to find another 757.
Thanks though!

 

[LocuMob]

Maybe the difference is the pulley diameters. I’ve seen on EBay some 4-groove pulleys with all equal size dimensions. The 757 has one that’s a lot smaller than the other 3.
It seems best to find another 757.
Thanks though!

I posted in your Wanted thread, I agree about the diameters possibly being different. The belt arrangement is the same as the one you pictured. Crank bolt pattern different between a 383 and 440?

 

[haywire 440]

I responded to your question in my want ad and comparing the diameters of the 4 grooves is a good idea. I would think the bolt pattern on the harmonic balancer are the same between the 383 and 413/440.

 

[Snotty]

The Single vacuum port is what was on before the rebuild so I’ll have to change that out.

Only if you will want it to "look correct." That dual cap with the nipple on it will do the job.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Be careful - some rebuilders will void warranty if the customer changes out the check valve on a booster.

 

[haywire 440]

Only if you will want it to "look correct." That dual cap with the nipple on it will do the job.

It certainly will and after your comment and @Ross Wooldridge caution I will call the rebuilder to check.

I double checked the single nipple that came in the bag, thinking it was a new one if needed, and found it was the old one.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[fury fan]

The crankshaft pulley is a 4 groove balanced unit and after Evaporust & inspection it shows multiple pitting around on it. Mostly the 2 back A/C grooves. My question is will using it cause an unbalanced situation and excessive wear on the fan belts? Should I locate a better pulley? I also noticed a rubber damper on the backside, original engine color showing. Just an observation.

View attachment 583247

View attachment 583249

Will the pitting create an unbalanced condition? Of course. But not enough that I think the engine or you would ever notice it. It is close to the axis of rotation so has minimal effect.
I looked in my stash and I have 1 of these -757 pulleys but is rusted around ~180deg of it, as if it was sitting in dirt. IIRC it came off a '74 440 motorhome engine I got, and I've always suspected it sat outside for a while. I don't know if it's much better than yours. It also has a nick at 6:00.

I don't think the pitting will cause excessive belt wear, esp for how much most of us drive these cars vs when they were new.

---

As for the cam, my favorites for a street-driven C-body would be the Summit K6400 or 6401 and the Lunati Voodoo Series 60301, 630302, and 60303 (they got renumbered to xx701, 2, 3).
I'm not a big-time cam-swapper but I've done tons of reading of other folks testimonies and cut/paste that into a Word doc for wheat/chaffing.

The Summits are old grinds but get a lot of rave reviews on Moparts for working well and having good QC, I don't recall reading a single complaint on it. (IIRC it's an old Ultradyne grind but arrives in a Crane box?) FWIW - Summit notes these for 1968 and newer engines, presumably due to pushrod changes?
The Lunati Voodoos have tame lift & duration specs but faster opening rates so more area under the curve. I'm not sure I'd do the bigger 60303 in a 413 (it seems better for a 440), but your 4-speed would help use it.

For a mild 413 I think any of those would work well. The 60302 might seem a hair big for a 413, but I read a number of folks that used it in a 383 and were pleased.
Just pick bigger/smaller based on your own desires and the compression ratio you end up with. (I'd probably NOT use the 60303 in your case but wanted to mention it)

Other folks might suggest split-pattern cams or other stuff due to spec x, y, z -- and they might be right.
But I remember a sentiment a few guys said:
If you pick a good-match cam, vs what 'experts' might tell you to use instead, there won't be but a handful of HP difference between a good cam and the 'best' cam.

Lunati has these categories worth looking at:

The 60301:
Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet - Chrysler 361-440 256/262
Hydraulic Flat Tappet. Best mild performance cam. Works excellent in fuel injection applications with performance chip. Makes approximately 19" vacuum at idle. Great for performance oriented marine applications and heavy towing applications. Perfect street rod cam. Has slightly noticeable idle, works with stock converter, A/C, power brakes and stock valve springs in most cases.; Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262; Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/220; Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.475; LSA/ICL: 112/108; Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd; RPM Range: 1000-5500; Includes: Cam Only

The 60302:
Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet - Chrysler 361-440 262/268
Hydraulic Flat Tappet. Mid-level performance street cam with excellent drivability. Works well with stock type exhaust manifolds and dual plane intake with mild 4 bbl carb. This is an awesome 4x4 and performance marine cam where dry exhaust is used. Improved valve springs and roller rock- ers recommended.; Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268; Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 220/226; Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .475/.494; LSA/ICL: 112/108; Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd; RPM Range: 1400-5800; Includes: Cam Only

The 60303:
Voodoo Hydraulic Flat Tappet - Chrysler 361-440 268/276
Hydraulic Flat Tappet. This high performance street cam likes 2400 RPM stall, 800 CFM carb, dual plane intake and headers. Makes un- equaled power to 6200 RPM with proper valve springs.; Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 268/276; Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 226/234; Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .494/.513; LSA/ICL: 110/106; Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd; RPM Range: 1800-6200; Includes: Cam Only


Summit Racing SUM-K6400 Summit Racing™ Classic Cam and Lifter Kits | Summit Racing

Summit Racing Part Number:
SUM-K6400
UPC:
190861126640
Cam Style:
Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,500-5,000
Camshaft Use:
Street/Strip
Camshaft Manufacturers Description:
Smooth idle, excellent low-midrange power. Works well with stock compression and stock stall.
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
214
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
224
Duration at 050 inch Lift:
214 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:
288
Advertised Exhaust Duration:
298
Advertised Duration:
288 int./298 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.444 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.466 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.444 int./0.466 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):
112
Camshaft Gear Attachment:
1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible:
No
Lifters Included:
Yes





Summit Racing SUM-K6401 Summit Racing™ Classic Cam and Lifter Kits | Summit Racing

Summit Racing Part Number:
SUM-K6400
UPC:
190861126640
Cam Style:
Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range:
1,500-5,000
Camshaft Use:
Street/Strip
Camshaft Manufacturers Description:
Smooth idle, excellent low-midrange power. Works well with stock compression and stock stall.
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift:
214
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift:
224
Duration at 050 inch Lift:
214 int./224 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration:
288
Advertised Exhaust Duration:
298
Advertised Duration:
288 int./298 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.444 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.466 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio:
0.444 int./0.466 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees):
112
Camshaft Gear Attachment:
1-bolt
Computer-Controlled Compatible:
No
Lifters Included:
Yes

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