Ben Herman
Member
Whatever you do don't get the SSBC kit. I'm still running mine but its been endless issues from the start.
Front End Rebuild - Firm Feel or any other options?
- Thread starter Ben Herman
- Start date
fury fan
Senior Member
I think that was the insight I was looking for.
I had .98" bars and no factory swaybar, but I was looking for 'more', so wen't with the 1.12 and 1-1/8 front swaybar.
fury fan
Senior Member
I wouldn't call it an ox cart, although it's hard to really quantify by describing it.
'Modern car' is really the best description. I have 15" wheels with fair sidewall height - less sidewall would be worse.
It's not objectionable to me, but it sure would be to some folks that are expecting the old-school ride.
It's not bad over rough pavement - although I avoid that AMAP.
After experiencing it, I would've gone a step softer. But I put the bars in ~15 years ago and my preferences have 'softened' somewhat.
There are MANY traffic circles on my travels and this car eats them up very well, unlike any old car should have a right to.
For what you are wanting, they'd probably be fine. I think the 1.18" you listed would be too much for a street-driven car, unless you have 47" bars, as longer=less spring rate.
If you ever come north of Indy in your travels I can take you for a test drive.
Ben Herman
Member
I didn't realize you were so close. My parents are northwest of Indy so I'm around there pretty often. I might shoot you a message if I can make it work next time I head that way. It'd probably be best to aim for stopping by on my way up. I usually work on my 63 Dodge bus while I'm there so I get covered in something or other.
I believe the Newports have 47" bars but I'd have to check to be sure.
fury fan
Senior Member
Just give me a few days heads-up to make sure the car isn't down for some repair or something.
I replaced the lifetime alternator the other day as it started making noise. Parts-store guy said 'Holy cow, you bought that alternator in 2001!'
Which was possibly while he was still in diapers.
I replaced the lifetime alternator the other day as it started making noise. Parts-store guy said 'Holy cow, you bought that alternator in 2001!'
Which was possibly while he was still in diapers.
1971 300 Alvah
Member
I did the Firmfeel whole meal deal. Reused my original upper and lower control arms, all new ball joints, Bilstien shocks, poly bushings (I used generous amounts of PTFE (???) lube on all of the poly bushings to reduce squeaks), new strut rods, front and rear sway bars, police torsion bars, new leafs, I even have new rear spring shackles which I haven't installed yet... new pitman arm and idler arm, tie rod ends, and a stage II steering rebuild.
I wouldn't do anything different, love the way it rides.
I wouldn't do anything different, love the way it rides.
Ben Herman
Member
I finally got around to tearing things down. I got one arm out last night and am hoping to get the next out tonight. Overall everything came out with minimal violence required. One of the benefits of oil everywhere I guess... It certainly looks like the LCA bushing is in worse shape than I'd like. It looks like it wore through the rubber then through the steel sleeve. The thrust arm bushings were pretty much entirely gone as well but I expected that.
The good news is that I imagine metal on metal rode worse than urethane will so I think I'll have an ok time after the upgrade.
The good news is that I imagine metal on metal rode worse than urethane will so I think I'll have an ok time after the upgrade.
fury fan
Senior Member
Is that worn into the pin as bad as it looks?
Is there metal flow or is that edge 100% dirty grease?
Strut rod bushings are common to B-bodies (some years, at least), so you can get polyurethane from Energy Suspension and other folks.
Is there metal flow or is that edge 100% dirty grease?
Strut rod bushings are common to B-bodies (some years, at least), so you can get polyurethane from Energy Suspension and other folks.
Ben Herman
Member
It's worn through the rubber, the sleeve, and I think into the pin...
I'm sending the arm in to Firm Feel for the welded plate, bushings, and powder coating. As long as they don't tell me my arms are destroyed I should be ok.
330dTA
Senior Member
I can only recommend Firm Feel. I did the whole set up front in my former drive: 1.06” TB’s, Tubular UCA’s, Stage I Steering Box, new LCA pins, roller bearing for Pitman Arm, all new bushings everywhere. A bit pricy (to get the stuff all the way up here), but spot on in the car. - That car is gone, but I still do not regret I did it. On the contrary, I will do it again. Everyone who ever drove it praised it. They said they did not know Mopars where so good. (Well I did. LOL)
Ben Herman
Member
Right now I'm doing upper and lower arms, bars, sway bar, thrust arms, and leafs. I plan on eventually doing the steering box and a rear sway bar as well as my budget allows.
Ben Herman
Member
I got the other one off and got some more pictures. I'm starting to think the last mechanic didn't earn all the praise I've given him... I'm not going to name names because I don't know if it may have already been like that. The mangled bushing pin actually came out of the straight control arm to make things more interesting.
I'm putting out some feelers to see if I can get a replacement drivers side arm and will also ask the Firm Feel guys what they think before they do all the work to it.
I'm putting out some feelers to see if I can get a replacement drivers side arm and will also ask the Firm Feel guys what they think before they do all the work to it.
fury fan
Senior Member
If you're on a budget, I'd skip the upper arms (tubular, I presume) and the LCA plates/powdercoating and do the rear sway bar.
Painted LCAs work just fine and the plates can easily be welded in later at home.
Esp as you are doing rear leafs, that's the perfect time to put the swaybar brackets on the U-bolts.
SF-66TC
Well-Known Member
I reworked my entire suspension in 2016 and have only driven the car 1,200 miles since then. I did the '73 Front Disc Conversion and while I was at it I rebuilt the entire suspension. I was going to just change the bushings and ball joints on the original UCA, but decided to go with Firm Feels Tubular Control Arms & the RCD Bilstein Shocks. I got Firm Feels Rear Sway Bar and used Monroe Shocks. Since my dad had new factory Upper and Lower Control arm bushings in his stash from 40 years ago, I used them. I got the Strut Rod Bushings, Pitman Arm & Lower Ball Joints from Rare Parts, Inc (quality much better). For what I couldn't get from Rare Parts such as the Idler Arm and Tie Rods, I just got Moog. To replace the front sway bar bushing I just I got PST's Stabilizer Link since the factory link had to be cut off and used Moog. Back in the day if the sway bar bushing needed to be replaced, you'd have to buy the entire sway bar with the link attached cause that's the way they did it. Lastly, I got my steering box rebuilt by Firm Feel - I got a Stage 1 and it's much tighter than the factory.
I pulled the motor during Covid to detail the engine and engine compartment. The body has 67K original miles and the motor about 20K since my dad rebuilt it in the '70's. I just got it back together last month and only drove it 30 miles to a car show and back. Just to see if there was any interest, I put a for sale sign on it. While on a 3-week cruise vacation I got a call from an interested buyer. He saw the car 6 years ago when I showed it at the same show. A friend of his happened to be at the show and told him he saw a 66 TC that was for sale. Long story short, Old Betsy will have a new owner tomorrow, Saturday. Good Luck with your project!
330dTA
Senior Member
Sad to learn you decided to part ways with the wagon. I thoroughly enjoyed your descriptions of the improvements you made to it. Your input on this site has been second to none.
By the way, did you like the FF Stage 1 steering box? I probably need to replace mine, as it’s leaking badly. I had the Saginaw pump installed in place of the Chrysler pump, and regained some ”road feel” as a consequence.
SF-66TC
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your compliment on my inputs. I really enjoyed sharing the work I've done to the 66TC and sharing those experiences. I'm slowly downsizing and since 2019 this will be the 3rd car sold; 65 Cadillac Coupe DeVille, 74 Fiat Spider and now the 66 TC. When my dad passed in 2000, I gave my cousin my dad's 52 GMC 3100 5-window truck and his 49 Chrysler Royal. That cousin happened to ask me a before I left on vacation if I wanted either or both of them back. He's done nothing to them - they've just been sitting in his garage the past 23 years. They both ran - he drove them home. I'm contemplating of taking them both back. I could just turn around and sell the 49 Chrysler (it's in good shape) but I don't care for it and maybe take the 52 GMC on as a project. I've always liked those trucks though I prefer the grill of a Chev rather than the GMC. I remember when I got my learners permit, I would take it out on my own without my dad around LOL! It was fun driving that 3 on a tree shifter. I'd like to do small resto-mod, but I know once I get started, I'll find more things I'd want to do to it and the modification bill will be endless. I see guys selling their resto-mod trucks for $100k+++. I've learned it's less expensive to just buy one already modified but many will say.... "what's the fun in that?" Though I thoroughly agree, the truck did have a lot of rust so I'll just have to go take a look at it. I could however just want needs to be fixed and leave the body alone and keep it with "patina" look OR it may be more advantageous to sell it as it is for someone else's project and get one with better bones.
Sorry... Back to your question: Yes, I do like the Stage-1 although a Stage-2 would give much more road feel. Prior to getting mine rebuilt I drove a friends GTX and he had a Stage-2. Speaking with the guy at Firm Feel he said he'd recommend the Stage-1 for the TC so I went with his recommendation. The original steering was way too sensitive - pinky steering. It didn't feel safe like I could lose control at any time. I first drove it in the '70's when we took a family trip up to Canada/Vancouver from San Francisco. I recall it was really sensitive then and it felt even more sensitive when I took it over in 2014. May have been because I got so use to the modern rack and pinion where you could feel the road. The Stage-1 is much tighter than original, and I could feel the road, but I think I would probably prefer a Stage-2 for more road feel. It's really personal preference so if you can drive someone who has both a Stage-1 and Stage-2 that would be best.
SF-66TC
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your response and concern. During my research on what was needed to do a front disc conversion on my C-body I came across Wayne, "theRamMan". I watched all his videos on Mopar disc brakes and contacted him to ask questions about a disc conversion and the required booster. I told him I had a 66 C-Body with power drum brakes with a single master and asked whether if I needed to upgrade the booster to the dual diaphragm. He asked what type of booster I had and told him I had a Midland. He said, the Midland was perfectly fine and I did not need to change it. Upon sale of the car, I did tell the buyer in detail all that I had done regarding the disc upgrade including the power booster was the original power drum brake booster but rebuilt by Booster Dewey. The buyer has a 66 TC himself and had no issue regarding the booster - he actually agreed the booster did not need to be upgraded and says the car stops on a dime.
fury fan
Senior Member
Well, the engineers saw fit to not use that booster with discs in 66-68, they used the Bendix dual-diaphragm.
Perhaps due to the 4-piston Kelseys?
And perhaps the Midland is OK with the single-piston 69-73 calipers you used?
But - they chose to continue to use the Bendix with those single pistons calipers thru 1970, and the Midland with drum brakes only.
They only went to a single-diaphragm booster (in 1971) when the booster got larger in diameter (it looks bigger, at least).
I'm not beating up on you, I'm just curious why he said it was OK when the engineers didn't use it with discs.
Perhaps due to the 4-piston Kelseys?
And perhaps the Midland is OK with the single-piston 69-73 calipers you used?
But - they chose to continue to use the Bendix with those single pistons calipers thru 1970, and the Midland with drum brakes only.
They only went to a single-diaphragm booster (in 1971) when the booster got larger in diameter (it looks bigger, at least).
I'm not beating up on you, I'm just curious why he said it was OK when the engineers didn't use it with discs.
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