I have a '71 Imperial with an engine leaking oil...

[hootothecore]

The car has 44K miles on the odometer that I believe is correct. I've pulled the engine (first time it's been out of the car) to replace all gaskets and seals. Also think I need to replace oil pressure sending unit. I plan to degrease, prime and paint the engine when done.

I'm wondering how far I should go with the tear down. Should I replace timing sprockets and chain? Should I pull the heads? I do need to replace all valve stem seals. Rings? (I have a new set of Hastings standard size piston rings).

Also, I presume the valley pan is not reusable if I remove the intake manifold. I see they are for sale, but most block off the heat crossover. Are they available without the block off? My exhaust manifold has a working crossover valve.

Just looking for opinions.

Thanks, Jim

 

[The_Eagles’_Nest]

If it runs fine leave it alone and just reseal it and do the timing chain only if there is slack. I would do a water pump and add a windage tray, but that’s just me.

 

[71Polara383]

I'd do everything mentioned in the post above, however, I'd do the valve seals as well. Surely they are dry and ready to fall apart and clog the oil pickup.

Don't let it snowball.

 

[The_Eagles’_Nest]

I am a big fan of the Flow Kooler water pumps. I would rather shell out $129 for a water pump once rather than $39 over and over again for Chinesium junk.

 

[hootothecore]

Thanks. It runs great, just leaves a stream of oil on the ground (when slowing into my garage) and is covered in oily sludge that I need to clean off. I've owned the car since 2006 and have replaced the water pump since then. Also replaced the fuel pump when that failed.

I loosened the intake to remove the foil insulation pads underneath, so do I need to replace the valley pan?

 

[The_Eagles’_Nest]

Thanks. It runs great, just leaves a stream of oil on the ground (when slowing into my garage) and is covered in oily sludge that I need to clean off. I've owned the car since 2006 and have replaced the water pump since then. Also replaced the fuel pump when that failed.

I loosened the intake to remove the foil insulation pads underneath, so do I need to replace the valley pan?

The valley pan IS the intake gasket. Use copper shellac on both sides and send it. Performance Car Graphics in Tallahassee, FL has new intake insulation.

 

[hootothecore]

The valley pan IS the intake gasket. Use copper shellac on both sides and send it. Performance Car Graphics in Tallahassee, FL has new intake insulation.

Yes, I was asking if the valley pan/intake gasket can be reused, or will it leak. I do want a replacement that has the crossover openings.

Are you saying that the copper shellac will allow reuse?

 

[57fury440]

Fix the leak and put it back in the car. If it is running well and has low miles on it why rebuild it now?

 

[The_Eagles’_Nest]

Yes, I was asking if the valley pan/intake gasket can be reused, or will it leak. I do want a replacement that has the crossover openings.

Are you saying that the copper shellac will allow reuse?

No, you have to replace it every time. Copper shellac will seal the gasket to the head and the intake.

 

[hootothecore]

Fix the leak and put it back in the car. If it is running well and has low miles on it why rebuild it now?

Looks like the plan is to replace all the seals, especially the crank front and rear and valve stems. I will not pull the heads. I do need to degrease the whole engine and repaint it because I want it to look pretty . Since I lifted the intake manifold, I will replace the valley pan/intake gasket.

 

[71Polara383]

Looks like the plan is to replace all the seals, especially the crank front and rear and valve stems. I will not pull the heads. I do need to degrease the whole engine and repaint it because I want it to look pretty . Since I lifted the intake manifold, I will replace the valley pan/intake gasket.

Yep. Theres a really trick oil pan gasket/windage tray summit sells now too. WAY better than a cork gasket.

This is the best way to proceed. Id throw a new oil pump on and clean the pick up thoroughly as well. Melling High volume. M63HV I believe is the part#. Someone's gonna chime in and say it'll suck the pan dry at idle, that's just BS. All my C bodies have bone stock 100k+ bottom ends and I run that exact HV pump on everything. If you are that paranoid run an extra quart for peace of mind.

Sounds like you have a solid plan. Thats my two cents. Post pics of your progress!

 

[413]

I'd use that original 44K oil pump all day long. NO WAY put a high volume pump on a stock engine, it is just plain not necessary for this type of car.

A big item nobody has mentioned, change the freeze plugs and clean out the bottom of the block. A big PITA to do in the car.

remove the oil pan and clean it out.

remove the oil pickup and clean it out, especially if the valve seals or plastic timing gear teeth are in the pan.

replace the valve stem seals.

 

[71Polara383]

If you are going to be in there and you do want to foolishly reuse the old oil pump. At least disassemble/inspect the rotor/clean it.

I wouldnt bother using it, but thats just me. This type of car. Lol okay! Sure.

 

[Marv]

A big item nobody has mentioned, change the freeze plugs and clean out the bottom of the block. A big PITA to do in the car.

100% change those freeze plugs !! they cost next to nothing but can ruin your day when they fail. As 413 mentioned, with the engine in the car it´s almost impossible to get to all of them.

 

[413]

The car has 44k miles. The oil pump should be like new. OK take it apart and look at it that's a good idea. Id rather run that original one than a new China oil pump.

Do you always change oil pumps on 44K mile cars? And leave the 53 year old freeze plugs alone?

 

[Big_John]

IMHO.. and if it were me....

Pulling the heads is just a few more bolts at this point and it might be easier for you to pull the valve springs to change the valve seals. Let's you look at the valves and cylinders too. That's just the way I would do it though. Seals can be done with the heads in place, but you do need the proper spring compressor and a way to hold the valves up to keep them from falling down into the cylinders.

I'd also change the timing chain and sprockets and put a nice roller set in there. The plastic gears of the OEM sets seem to fail with age, not just mileage. This stuff is sooooo much easier with the engine out. Same for core plugs.

Oil pump is your call... I'd at least pull it apart to check, but replacement isn't a bad idea. If you take the oil pan off, adding a windage tray is good, but not real necessary. I probably would though.

Your intake gasket with the unblocked heat riser is Fel-Pro MS96000 or 260-4019. I don't know if there is any difference between the two.

One thing I noticed from the first post... It was leaving a stream of oil and that's probably your oil sender. That could have been changed in the car.

 

[71Polara383]

The car has 44k miles. The oil pump should be like new. OK take it apart and look at it that's a good idea. Id rather run that original one than a new China oil pump.

Do you always change oil pumps on 44K mile cars? And leave the 53 year old freeze plugs alone?

No the freeze plugs is something I wouldn't think twice about changing as well, its something I didn't even think about, because it's a no brainer to me. Glad you mentioned it though, because I didn't think the OP would need to hear it with his plan of action. But its good to cover everything. Changing the oil pump is cheap insurance while it's out and apart. Same deal as the plugs.

 

[hootothecore]

A couple of pictures...

IMHO.. and if it were me....

Pulling the heads is just a few more bolts at this point and it might be easier for you to pull the valve springs to change the valve seals. Let's you look at the valves and cylinders too. That's just the way I would do it though. Seals can be done with the heads in place, but you do need the proper spring compressor and a way to hold the valves up to keep them from falling down into the cylinders.

I'd also change the timing chain and sprockets and put a nice roller set in there. The plastic gears of the OEM sets seem to fail with age, not just mileage. This stuff is sooooo much easier with the engine out. Same for core plugs.

Oil pump is your call... I'd at least pull it apart to check, but replacement isn't a bad idea. If you take the oil pan off, adding a windage tray is good, but not real necessary. I probably would though.

Your intake gasket with the unblocked heat riser is Fel-Pro MS96000 or 260-4019. I don't know if there is any difference between the two.

One thing I noticed from the first post... It was leaving a stream of oil and that's probably your oil sender. That could have been changed in the car.

Thanks for the intake gasket p/n. Regarding freeze plugs. This car had block heater plugs. I'm not sure I want to remove that option even though I've removed (and kept) the plug-in cable.

I suspect the oil sender as the main leak, but it has made a mess, so engine out for cleanup.

Also, if I pull the heads, should I have hardened exhaust valve seats installed?

 

[Big_John]

Also, if I pull the heads, should I have hardened exhaust valve seats installed?

If everything looks good, I wouldn't bother having a valve job done. If you decide to do a valve job, it's a good option.

There's always debate about the hardened valve seats and IMHO, Chrysler heads aren't as prone to wear from the lack of lead in the gas. If you are planning to drive this car 20K miles a year for the next 5 years, then yes, do the hardened seats. Reality is that most of these cars see under 3k miles a year and any real valve seat wear is many years away. So hardened seats won't hurt, but I wouldn't have a valve job done just to have the seats put in.

The heater core plugs, if OK, probably aren't as prone to failing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's only one heated plug on each side. That leaves 4 other core plugs that can fail and should be changed. For example, the ones under the motor mounts are going to be harder to change in the car. The heated plugs, should they start leaking, are in a better spot to change in the car if needed.

 

[413]

Usually only one heated freeze plug in the engine. You can see it in the photo on pass side middle hole. If it had 2 block heaters it would have 2 cords to plug in.

The big problem is there is a freeze plug behind each. motor mount bracket, and that is the big problem with engine in the car.

oil pump, OK let's beat this to death! Cheap insurance? To replace a 44K mile oil pump. Do you guys replace the oil pumps at 44K on you daily drivers? **** man, plenty of people are driving around daily in 200K mile rigs with no problem. Oil pump problems come from running foreign material through them, not age.

And replace it with what? China junk? No thanks, keep that original pump.

If you take the heads off don't use felpro blue head gaskets, it will drop the compression ratio. Find steel shim head gaskets to replace them with. Not hard to find and the seal just fine.