immigration and naturalization thread...

[commando1]

I can NOT get involved in this subject and will unfortunately have to block this thread less I burst the throbbing veins in my neck.

My most vulnerable Hot button.

Build the effing wall.
MAeffingGA™

Adios.

 

[Carmine]

So let's approach this from a different angle... there is a Home Depot near Woodley park (where the car show is held). In 2016, there was a trailer in the parking lot, placed there by some government entity as a "relief center" (bathrooms, chairs, a/c) for the large crowds of people who would congregate in the parking lot offering to apply the paint you just bought, plant the shrubs, etc.

Knowing something of what it takes to establish a legitimate business... often a brick and mortar proper zoning ($$$) a business license and various insurances ($$) advertising ($$) etc., How would you feel about the government subsidizing an operation that not only undercuts you on overhead, but doesn't follow the rule of law?

Does it make a person a "racist" to push back against that? Or are the ethnicities associated with the activity unfortunate pawns of the politicians and 1%'ers who use them?

 

[chaparral2f]

So let's approach this from a different angle... there is a Home Depot near Woodley park (where the car show is held). In 2016, there was a trailer in the parking lot, placed there by some government entity as a "relief center" (bathrooms, chairs, a/c) for the large crowds of people who would congregate in the parking lot offering to apply the paint you just bought, plant the shrubs, etc.

Knowing something of what it takes to establish a legitimate business... often a brick and mortar proper zoning ($$$) a business license and various insurances ($$) advertising ($$) etc., How would you feel about the government subsidizing an operation that not only undercuts you on overhead, but doesn't follow the rule of law?

Does it make a person a "racist" to push back against that? Or are the ethnicities associated with the activity unfortunate pawns of the politicians and 1%'ers who use them?

So then you should back my idea of charging fines of $50k per illegal employed by a business. However keep in mind your fresh fruit and vegetables and the service industries will increase in cost.

 

[MarPar]

I can NOT get involved in this subject and will unfortunately have to block this thread less I burst the throbbing veins in my neck.

My most vulnerable Hot button.

Build the effing wall.
MAeffingGA™

Adios.

 

[Carmine]

So then you should back my idea of charging fines of $50k per illegal employed by a business. However keep in mind your fresh fruit and vegetables and the service industries will increase in cost.

First of all, you've not addressed the idea of a government that will shut your legitimate business down for 32" vs. 36" bathroom door WHILE FUNDING accommodations for a competitor with zero overhead. You've only proposed the same fantasy-world idea with which I've already said I agree, but will not occurr in my lifetime.

I live in an area with very little illegal immigration, but spend significant time in an area that does. I don't see any meaningful difference in food or service costs.

 

[chaparral2f]

First of all, you've not addressed the idea of a government that will shut your legitimate business down for 32" vs. 36" bathroom door WHILE FUNDING accommodations for a competitor with zero overhead. You've only proposed the same fantasy-world idea with which I've already said I agree, but will not occurr in my lifetime.

I live in an area with very little illegal immigration, but spend significant time in an area that does. I don't see any meaningful difference in food or service costs.

Why is it fantasy, you just argue that it costs over $30k per person to have them deported, remember the number is believed to be somewhere around 11 million. To build the wall will cost north of $20B. The argument then what is more cost effective making $50k per illegal or spending billions of dollars and does nothing to stop them from coming back. The wall, which i think is a stupid idea, will never get built nor would it stop those coming over illegally.

 

[MYSINBIN]

So let's approach this from a different angle... there is a Home Depot near Woodley park (where the car show is held). In 2016, there was a trailer in the parking lot, placed there by some government entity as a "relief center" (bathrooms, chairs, a/c) for the large crowds of people who would congregate in the parking lot offering to apply the paint you just bought, plant the shrubs, etc.

Knowing something of what it takes to establish a legitimate business... often a brick and mortar proper zoning ($$$) a business license and various insurances ($$) advertising ($$) etc., How would you feel about the government subsidizing an operation that not only undercuts you on overhead, but doesn't follow the rule of law?

Does it make a person a "racist" to push back against that? Or are the ethnicities associated with the activity unfortunate pawns of the politicians and 1%'ers who use them?

First of all, you've not addressed the idea of a government that will shut your legitimate business down for 32" vs. 36" bathroom door WHILE FUNDING accommodations for a competitor with zero overhead. You've only proposed the same fantasy-world idea with which I've already said I agree, but will not occurr in my lifetime.

I live in an area with very little illegal immigration, but spend significant time in an area that does. I don't see any meaningful difference in food or service costs.

Without any verifiable documentation/evidence, your statements are low quality fiction.

The reason a business would be shut down because of a code violation is due too non-compliance after multiple notices/warnings.

Your story about the Home Depot isn't even low quality fiction.

It's a waste of key strokes.

You should go work on your car.

Near the tailpipe.

While it's running.

Flame on.

 

[Carmine]

Without any verifiable documentation/evidence, your statements are low quality fiction.

The reason a business would be shut down because of a code violation is due too non-compliance after multiple notices/warnings.

Your story about the Home Depot isn't even low quality fiction.

It's a waste of key strokes.

You should go work on your car.

Near the tailpipe.

While it's running.

Flame on.

Now that you've written your low quality Haiku, I'll mention that:

A) I'm an elected official in a municipality of 60k+ people.

B) I've actually written ordinances.

C) I'm a silent partner in a brick and mortar service business.

D) I own investment commercial property.

I'm well aware of what it takes to open a business. I've witnessed them chained and padlocked for non-compliance.

As for the centers, it took me 15 seconds to verify their existence with a 3rd party.

Day Laborers Have Become an Easy Target for Anti-Immigrant Vigilantes

Other than bad poetry, what are you bringing to the debate?

 

[saforwardlook]

Carmine, I also felt that I should minimize taking your other thread off track and so I just wrote a short one sentence follow up to the one comment I got, but your decision to start this thread is a good one.

I just want to pretty much agree with Stan that these discussions get us all worked up and disagreeing with each other and people get angry, and so nothing gets solved. Just animosities are created many times.

My overall perspective is that a person's skin color has nothing to do with their capability or good judgment - rather I believe it is a persons bringing up, their life situation that may not be in their control, their friends, their income and so many other factors that play into the problems people of all colors contribute to.

But today, our problems are boiling over and tensions are high. Why now? Yes, our immigration system is out of control and laws are not being enforced nor are perhaps reasonable allocations of immigrants in place to keep things reasonable. But to me, it seems like a lot of news sources are stirring the pot too, on both sides - but I ask myself why, as what good comes of this for anyone?

To me, the problems we have with immigration and racial hatred are a result of a bigger problem, not the cause of our tensions.

This to me, is the real problem in the U.S. This is an article that lays it out simply and reasonably. When a lot of the population own nothing and have no resources, there will be trouble, and a lot of it. This is the one big issue that really needs to be fixed. And I do not yet see it being addressed by our current administration head on. Hillary would never address it, and Trump, I believe, isn't fixated on it either. But until it is addressed, we will never return to life like in the 50s & 60s where our society was more at peace and everyone seemed to have more respect for each other and life was better. And our democratic form of govenment won't work well either when things are this out of whack. Just don't brush this off or dismiss it, but really think about it. It seems most every one is agry these days and doesn't know how to fix our problems. How can society really work correctly until this skewed situation is fixed? Look at the numbers!

Analysis | The richest 1 percent now owns more of the country’s wealth than at any time in the past 50 years

 

[Carmine]

You know Steve, I was largely willing to take on the subject because (I guess) I sort of raised the issue and I felt your reply was thought-out and sincere.

I also thought it worthwhile because I've never had a beef with "people" at their group/label level. This is a nuanced subject but unfortunately it's been dumbed-down into "hate" on both sides. Either hating the people who are often pawns, poorly served by a government who makes voices for change disapper in the desert or sets them up for prison or hate for the people asking our goverment to enforce the rule of law. (Think anyone calling me names knows those labor stories? Or about maximum wage laws? Or why the government wants wages kept low?)

So I agree, this probably can't be discussed on an adult level here any better than society at large.

 

[Fratzog]

So it seems we have accurately defined the problem of inequitable wealth distribution however the problem of how to deal with it remains a tough nut to crack and may be unsolvable. We have already tried the leftist approach which has proved itself to be an unmitigated disaster. JP does a nice job of defining the problem.



Looking at the stats you'd think we are all going to hell in a hand basket. We should of course be vigilant and not repeat historic mistakes costing millions of lives but it is always worthwhile to step back and look at the subject from a 20K foot view and all of a sudden things don't seem all that bad as depicted in the above captioned articles. I'm not suggesting for a minute that there isn't room of improvement in areas like immigration but sometimes it pays to change your perspective. Maybe we are doing some things right.

 

[crv]

You should go work on your car.

Near the tailpipe.

While it's running.

Flame on.

That's a bit rough, are you seriously suggesting someone do what you have described, simply because you disagree on a topic?
And don't say it was in jest, it was moronic.

 

[saforwardlook]

So it seems we have accurately defined the problem of inequitable wealth distribution however the problem of how to deal with it remains a tough nut to crack and may be unsolvable. We have already tried the leftist approach which has proved itself to be an unmitigated disaster. JP does a nice job of defining the problem.



Looking at the stats you'd think we are all going to hell in a hand basket. We should of course be vigilant and not repeat historic mistakes costing millions of lives but it is always worthwhile to step back and look at the subject from a 20K foot view and all of a sudden things don't seem all that bad as depicted in the above captioned articles. I'm not suggesting for a minute that there isn't room of improvement in areas like immigration but sometimes it pays to change your perspective. Maybe we are doing some things right.

Thanks for the inputs. One view seems to say this situation is inevetible and the other seems to say that problems can be solved, and to continue to always expect problems.

My view is that the second speaker is correct that the younger people will likely vote this time, but for an independent candidate that probably will not win because both the Republicans and Democrats, who the young and others see as having no solutions, have control over the majority of the population. I don't know where this ends, but it seems to me money in politics is a huge problem, and as such, democracy is undermined. Tax rates for the upper levels will not change either because the people with the political power are in those upper income groups and are paid by the richest to do their bidding, so the richest get what they want. As for the rest, "the peasants have no bread, well, then, let them eat cake!". This is no longer a matter of "the rich worked hard and earned their money, so they deserve it", rather it is a matter of unbridled greed and manipulation that keeps them on their pedestal, gaining ever more. This is why the "good book" counsels "it will be easier for a camel to thread the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven", and I am beginning to understand it much better.

Unless an informed electorate take to the streets and demand some fundamental changes, it seems we are headed for a civil war or will get engaged in a war with some other country where we will all have to sacrifice and come together, or we will become extinct. The nuclear option is out there waiting to be used, too, and after that, there will be no more problems. We shouldn't be pawns of the media and the people who own them and control the message, we need to stop fighting each other and find common ground and act. But today, there is too much complacency, ignorance and people seem to enjoy fighting, which just makes us weaker as a nation and riper for the picking. So keep blaming the Mexicans, or you name the group, and let the media control your minds (their owners surely do not want the focus on them), and we can predict the outcome. Its happened before, but with lesser weapons than available today.

 

[crv]

believe, isn't fixated on it either. But until it is addressed, we will never return to life like in the 50s & 60s where our society was more at peace and everyone seemed to have more respect for each other and life was better.

The reason societies were more cohesive in the West then was due to homogeneity to a large degree, this changed in the mid 1960s when the gates to immigration were opened up and millions of people poured into the West.
I will agree that this is part of something bigger and all evidence suggests this push for open borders into the West has been orchestrated by malicious individuals who believe in the divide and conquer ideology.
Different racial and ethnic groups have been put in a position where nothing good can come of it.

 

[Carmine]

Wasn't going to add any more here, but because it's relevant...

Have also noticed there seems to be much more "push" here (CA and AZ) than I notice in MI. For example(s)...

Sunday morning in Malibu, stopped at a McD's (since I could find nothing else besides a Nobu and I wasn't going to have my car valet parked for an egg sandwich). Three big TVs all running the same local news. No sound, but a memorable news ticker:

"Local group to hold fundraiser for victims of Trump Syrian bombing"

Seriously? (and there was a protest, don't know how many funds were raised to help rebuild chemical weapons sites though?)

Then on Monday morning I worked out at a Phoenix Anytime Fitness. Every TV had CNN with the "Comey: Trump morally unfit" and **** Star photos. At breakfast, same thing.

I'm happy to report that not only are there fewer "screens" in public places back in MI, but they're generally focused on moronic local stories, such as potholes.

I do feel much more "influenced" when out in public here. If that was my local gym, I'd can my membership if they kept up the politics. There have been several waves of loosened rules on media ownership, from both sides, and I think each one has been terrible.

This country used to breakup monopolies and that's something I wished we'd get back in the habit of doing. Unfortunately I don't hear ANYONE rattling that sword.

 

[crv]

Wasn't going to add any more here, but because it's relevant...

Have also noticed there seems to be much more "push" here (CA and AZ) than I notice in MI. For example(s)...

Sunday morning in Malibu, stopped at a McD's (since I could find nothing else besides a Nobu and I wasn't going to have my car valet parked for an egg sandwich). Three big TVs all running the same local news. No sound, but a memorable news ticker:

"Local group to hold fundraiser for victims of Trump Syrian bombing"

Seriously? (and there was a protest, don't know how many funds were raised to help rebuild chemical weapons sites though?)

Then on Monday morning I worked out at a Phoenix Anytime Fitness. Every TV had CNN with the "Comey: Trump morally unfit" and **** Star photos. At breakfast, same thing.

I'm happy to report that not only are there fewer "screens" in public places back in MI, but they're generally focused on moronic local stories, such as potholes.

I do feel much more "influenced" when out in public here. If that was my local gym, I'd can my membership if they kept up the politics. There have been several waves of loosened rules on media ownership, from both sides, and I think each one has been terrible.

This country used to breakup monopolies and that's something I wished we'd get back in the habit of doing. Unfortunately I don't hear ANYONE rattling that swor

View attachment 180240

The (((media))) has a lot to answer for.

 

[Carmine]

The (((media))) has a lot to answer for.

There are definitely too few hands with to much power. The Internet has been liberating and laid waste to a lot of creaky-corrupt old media, but I suspect there will soon be calls for "regulation" and given so few platforms with enough critical mass, control will be easily established.

 

[crv]

There are definitely too few hands with to much power. The Internet has been liberating and laid waste to a lot of creaky-corrupt old media, but I suspect there will soon be calls for "regulation" and given so few platforms with enough critical mass, control will be easily established.

The media, academia, finance and government cannot be open to foreign nationals with dual citizenship, nor should special interest groups with ties to foreign countries have the power to lobby the government. Politicians and financial donations from various groups and individuals is a bad mix which needs to be abolished., in short, Americans must take control of their own affairs or things will continue to go south.