I've Got the No-Charge Blues

[Gonzo]

There is so much brilliant wisdom available on this beyond generous forum on this topic that I am embarrassed to say I am still bamboozled with my situation.
I have read as much as I could find, but I still must plead for help because I am hoping to make a 1 wire setup work. Electric issues on my cars are the most difficult for me.

After going through 2 box-store alternator remans which had bearing problems, for a 67 Sport Fury with a questionable looking wiring job (lots of electrical taped connections which was former owner's updated-to-solid-stateVR-2wire conversion) I decided to buy a new PowerMaster 90 amp alternator from Summit and rewire to simple. I also bought a new old style mechanical VR to return to a 1 wire setup. Besides new 14 gauge field wire I added a 10 gauge shunt from alternator to battery. This setup gave me great charge readings for all situations, including the different accessory demands. I was happy with the results.

Good for a month or so. Then she stopped charging .

Testing seemed to show the problem was the VR. I found the top set of points had a tiny spur reaching down from the upper to the lower contact. I filed it away and reinstalled.
Now I still have low charge voltage readings, with 12.35V at the battery with the headlights on. The field voltage is 2.65V. Ignition side of VR is same as batt voltage with key on. The charge voltage goes up to 12.65 at higher RPMs. Not so good.

I know I need a new VR. But I feel I should know why it failed so soon after the the conversion back to 1 wire before I choose what VR might work for me. Did the 90 amp higher output PowerMaster fry the points? Is there available a mechanical VR that will work for me?

From what I've read so far I expect the feedback will be I should have rewired for the 1970 2 wire and solid state setup. But my backup "in the trunk" alternator is the OEM that came with the car, so it would be nice to have at hand with a 1 wire setup for easy "on the road" replacement.

I bought Rosie at the end of January. Minor, but many, problems along the way. It would be so great to just drive her, now. I think she's close to reliable. Thanks for your help on this.

 

[CBODY67]

As you probably discovered with the remans, they are the newer 2-wire models, BUT they should have had instructions on how to use them on the earlier 1-wire models with no problems.

As to the voltage regulator, you can get a OEM-look solid-state unit from one of the members in here, with an eBay store, IIRC. Or possibly get a Chrysler harness and put in an OEM-stylesolid-state VR from about 1972 or so.

Did you do the re-wire for the ammeter as there are many threads in here in doing that?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[FURYGT]

With a 90 amp alternator you need to go with the 1970 & later VR.
I hope that you have upgraded the wiring in the charge circuit and bypassed the amp gauge. I hate to have your car have an electrical fire. A 90 amp alternator is twice the amperage of what was put in a 1967 Sport Fury with a/c.

 

[Davea Lux]

There is so much brilliant wisdom available on this beyond generous forum on this topic that I am embarrassed to say I am still bamboozled with my situation.
I have read as much as I could find, but I still must plead for help because I am hoping to make a 1 wire setup work. Electric issues on my cars are the most difficult for me.

After going through 2 box-store alternator remans which had bearing problems, for a 67 Sport Fury with a questionable looking wiring job (lots of electrical taped connections which was former owner's updated-to-solid-stateVR-2wire conversion) I decided to buy a new PowerMaster 90 amp alternator from Summit and rewire to simple. I also bought a new old style mechanical VR to return to a 1 wire setup. Besides new 14 gauge field wire I added a 10 gauge shunt from alternator to battery. This setup gave me great charge readings for all situations, including the different accessory demands. I was happy with the results.

Good for a month or so. Then she stopped charging .

Testing seemed to show the problem was the VR. I found the top set of points had a tiny spur reaching down from the upper to the lower contact. I filed it away and reinstalled.
Now I still have low charge voltage readings, with 12.35V at the battery with the headlights on. The field voltage is 2.65V. Ignition side of VR is same as batt voltage with key on. The charge voltage goes up to 12.65 at higher RPMs. Not so good.

I know I need a new VR. But I feel I should know why it failed so soon after the the conversion back to 1 wire before I choose what VR might work for me. Did the 90 amp higher output PowerMaster fry the points? Is there available a mechanical VR that will work for me?

From what I've read so far I expect the feedback will be I should have rewired for the 1970 2 wire and solid state setup. But my backup "in the trunk" alternator is the OEM that came with the car, so it would be nice to have at hand with a 1 wire setup for easy "on the road" replacement.

I bought Rosie at the end of January. Minor, but many, problems along the way. It would be so great to just drive her, now. I think she's close to reliable. Thanks for your help on this.

The stock regulator was rated at a max of 60 amps as is the rest of the charging circuit as noted above. The amp gauge will melt down and the wiring will overheat running a 90 amp alternator. You will need a complete charging system upgrade as noted. You should also take the alternator off and have it tested as the diodes may have been damage by the fused regulator.

Dave

 

[Unix]

The cheapo reman alternators off rockauto are good, as long as u change the bearings. The bearings are ALL sh**, even on the pricier alterntors.

I have a PURE ENERGY 60 amp for 34 bucks , and it's been running 4k miles no problems. I also changed the voltage regulator to a new one. Bought a spare second alternator just in case, also changed the bearings, it's on the shelf for an emergency.

60 Amps is more than enough, with lights, A/C, radio, wipers, and being stuck in traffic. Unless you have fuel injection, electric pump, electric fans etc, then you would probably want more...

 

[Gonzo]

Thanks for the replies, guys.
I have wandered into an arcane jungle of electrics. Not knowing, I chose the wrong alternator for the VR because it was new, made in the USA and more power always appeals to me.

So, it looks like my choices are 1) purchase a 1970 style solid-state VR and rewire, using my 90 amp alt ; 2) put back on my OEM alternator and purchase a new VR ( but not having a correct "in-the-trunk" backup).
Questions:
"I hope that you have upgraded the wiring in the charge circuit and bypassed the amp gauge." Scary to think about a fire!!
Does what I am calling a shunt (10 gauge direct wire from alternator output to batt) qualify as a "ammeter by-pass" and protection for the ammeter circuit?

If I chose option 1, what is the source for the best VR for this 90 amp alt?
Could my OEM alt be made to work an emergency replacement for the same?

If I chose option 2, what would be the best VR to buy (so much cheap junk for sale)?
Thanks again.

 

[SPF Required]

Tagging @cbarge here for his ammeter bypass thread. The best walk through on that thread. I don’t remember all the details, but the one 10 gauge wire to the battery is not enough.

 

[cbarge]

Tagging @cbarge here for his ammeter bypass thread. The best walk through on that thread. I don’t remember all the details, but the one 10 gauge wire to the battery is not enough.

I run the Powermaster roundback alternator.
It has 2 fields and I have one grounded to the alternator housing.
I also run an old school style voltage regulator but has elrctronic guts that can handle the 90 amps.
The underhood ammeter bypass is a must when upgrading the alternator.
Factree is typically 38 to 45 amps.
Essentially doubling the alternator output you must double up the wiring for it.
I am running 10 gauge wiring with a 14 gauge fusible link atvthe starter relay.
You can do 8 and 12 if you like.

 

[cbarge]

Linky to thread.
Underhood Ammeter Bypass

 

[Gonzo]

Many thanks cbarge! Terrific job you did with the video.
The ammeter bypass is what I have done with #10 wire, soon to complete job with fusible link. I still am looking for a compatible VR.
You wrote:
"I run the Powermaster roundback alternator.
It has 2 fields and I have one grounded to the alternator housing.
I also run an old school style voltage regulator but has elrctronic guts that can handle the 90 amps."
I would like to know just exactly what "old school" electronic VR you are running with the Powermaster 90 amp alternator (which is what I have). Please advise. I have found some listed on Ebay but they do not specify the recommended amp rating.
Then maybe I would not need to rewire for a 1970 2 wire setup??

 

[cbarge]

Many thanks cbarge! Terrific job you did with the video.
The ammeter bypass is what I have done with #10 wire, soon to complete job with fusible link. I still am looking for a compatible VR.
You wrote:
"I run the Powermaster roundback alternator.
It has 2 fields and I have one grounded to the alternator housing.
I also run an old school style voltage regulator but has elrctronic guts that can handle the 90 amps."
I would like to know just exactly what "old school" electronic VR you are running with the Powermaster 90 amp alternator (which is what I have). Please advise. I have found some listed on Ebay but they do not specify the recommended amp rating.
Then maybe I would not need to rewire for a 1970 2 wire setup??

NO need to rewire to the 70-up system.
I use electronic voltage regulators from a mrmber here, Bill aka FuryGT?
In the past I also used from Auto Zone VR745 and popped the cover off and used the original cover.

 

[Gonzo]

This comes as great news, but let me make sure I have it right.
I am currently wired for a one-wire 90 amp Powermaster alt, original points type VR now with burned up points (resulting from too many amps alternator), basically the original wiring scheme except for 10 gauge ammeter bypass. Are you saying I can simply replace the burned up VR with a FuryGT VR, or the Auto Zone VR745 and I'm back on the road, the happiest guy in town?
I thought I had no option but to rewire for 2 wire setup.

 

[cbarge]

This comes as great news, but let me make sure I have it right.
I am currently wired for a one-wire 90 amp Powermaster alt, original points type VR now with burned up points (resulting from too many amps alternator), basically the original wiring scheme except for 10 gauge ammeter bypass. Are you saying I can simply replace the burned up VR with a FuryGT VR, or the Auto Zone VR745 and I'm back on the road, the happiest guy in town?
I thought I had no option but to rewire for 2 wire setup.

Proof is in the pudding.
All three of our C's have the bypass and electronic old school look alike regulators as shown in my video of the bypass

 

[Gonzo]

Thanks very much, cbarge. I'm sold on your setup if it works for my 90 amp Powermaster. I did not find any warnings as to alt amp power limitation when I first visited FuryGT a few days ago, but I believe you have relieved my concerns since it's the same setup as what you have had success with. Thank you again.

 

[cbarge]

Thanks very much, cbarge. I'm sold on your setup if it works for my 90 amp Powermaster. I did not find any warnings as to alt amp power limitation when I first visited FuryGT a few days ago, but I believe you have relieved my concerns since it's the same setup as what you have had success with. Thank you again.

Yer welcome

 

[cbarge]

Thanks very much, cbarge. I'm sold on your setup if it works for my 90 amp Powermaster. I did not find any warnings as to alt amp power limitation when I first visited FuryGT a few days ago, but I believe you have relieved my concerns since it's the same setup as what you have had success with. Thank you again.

Found this pic deep within the bowels of my files..
Powermaster 90 amp with old school electronic regulator.
Look vewy carefully you can see the grounded wire from the 2nd-or extra field.

 

[Gonzo]

Curiously, the reply to my question to FuryGT about using this electronic VR with the Powermaster 90 amp was that it would not work. He said it was limited to 60 amps. Maybe you should tell him about your success with that setup.

 

[Gonzo]

Yes, I see the ground wire on the alt. I have the same.

 

[cbarge]

Ok..correction.. VR706 Duralast regulator is what I am using with the 90 amp unit.
Been using it since 2018.
Here are pics of the "mod"
Bill's regulators are in use in 2 other cars with lower amp alternators.

 

[Gonzo]

Well that comes as bad news in two ways.
I ordered 2 FuryGT electronic VR's today.
The Autozone site does not offer that VR706.