My Journey has come to an end...

[mr. fix it]

I don't know how to say it any other way but the 2010 Dodge Journey that came home with me about a month ago is coming to an end & going to the local Dodge dealership & a brand new Caravan Crew with multiple upgrades is coming to replace the void in our daily driver lives.

the journey as much as I wanted to like/love/enjoy was just not cut out for life with Mr. fix it.

Right from the day we test drove it it has a clunking rattle in the front the Honda dealer promised to fix & did not even though they had a week to prep it remained.
the past month has been spent trying to be a nice guy about things but this past Sunday was the icing on the cake when for the first time I tried to peep the horn to a neighbour as we drove away and the stupid thing didn't work!

We have to have a Provincial inspection for safety when transferring ownership and there were concerns and from the get go the clunk was still present with the mechanic claiming they could not hear it.
I heard the second I pulled away...
This was just the start of the adventure...
I took it back and again the yclaimed there was nothing wrong and all was good.
I then took it to a local trusted garage for diagnosis.
The first words out of his mouth after checking it was 'could i take it back and get my money back?"
I was puzzled about this since it is a low mileage DJ.
He told me these suspensions front ans back keep him busy replacing struts, sway bar bushings, ball joints control arm bushings, etc.
All of which needed replacing on my DJ.
This was the front at first I was concerned about.
Everything had play in it with the exception of the new rear struts...
He did say that most of it passed inspection but barely.

So off I go with an estimate to present to the selling dealership.
They turn around ans state it all passes and that' what they are responsible for.
Failed to bring up the fact they promised to fix the clunking. I didn't forget though.
(Top strut load bearings...) Totally shot as I suspected when writing up the agreement
so fast forward to last Thursday afternoon. i had to stop suddenly for a car in front that made a left hand turn without brake lights.
I jabbed the brakes to slow down and suddenly this is pulling to the left into oncoming traffic if I left it but i held on and kept it in my lane.
(A typical issue with worn lower control arm bushings on our modern FWD cars)
so after I change into clean undershorts off igo again to the stealership and tell them happened. i was able to reproduce the action and the response was from the salesperson, "Hey, I'm not a mechanic we can have a look at it sometime next week".
The excuses are coming sure and strong since the pickup date.

Oh, I forgot to mention it was smoked in and they used some bubble gum perfume smell to cover it up.

so they keep putting me off with some sob stories on how the mechanic quit an they don't have time to fit me in.
I do my best to be understanding but I'm running out of time since we are planning to leave to SC to visit our daughter next week.
So back to the horn issue.
I took it to my mechanic for a full inspection only t find out the rear suspension is in big trouble too.
That's it and i go back to request my money back.
the best I finally get is if you buy a brand new Honda then you get full credit but until again I fight for this. after 3 weeks of owning this little turd they offer me the current trade value of $5,000!

I can't afford a new Honda but consider it but the only comfortable auto for me is an Oddessey and it comes to over $50,000 not even including extended warranty or other up charges.

They finally admitted that there are some issues but only replacing again parts to pass inspection. the rest is my own dime.

So I've had enough and go to the local Dodge dealer and made a deal for a B/N 2017 Grand Caravan Crew Plus with all the things needed to make life comfortable.
the touring suspension saved the day and I am out the door with the extended warranties and all for less than $40,000cdn

The final kick in the teeth is when this morning i call to see if all parts ahve arrived to the Honda dealer and they ask why the hurry and I tell them I sold it. now all bets are off and they tell me they will take it back to fix next Wednesday. 2 full days after i trade it in.
I tell them i need it for Monday at the latest.
They refused because they lost my business
I finally threatened to report them to the Ministry of Transportation safety inspection division (which I did many years ago )
I demand a courtesy auto as well and after terminating the call they call back and ask when I can drop it off
I reminded them I have to pick it up no later than 5pm Monday afternoon or the buying dealership will be informed of what took place And they are well aware of the issues typically associated with the DJ’s
Funny part is that my wife takes it in and ups the anti by demanding it be fixed by 5pm tomorrow or else the MTO is coming to do a reinspection or the poop will hit the fan

 

[mr. fix it]

The final is that coming Monday evening a nice new white Grand Caravan Crew plus with a modest number of upgrades will be parked out in the driveway
This should be the end of any troubles for a while

 

[Beep Beep Dave]

Wow that really sounds like some terrible customer service.

Congrats on the new ride. There are some great deals to be had on the leftover 2017s.

Dave

 

[62dodge]

Wow sorry for your troubles, as we almost bought a Journey as well, we bought a Dart instead. This was in 2013 the Dart has 160k on it now.

 

[LocuMob]

Flippin' crooks. Glad the end was/will be a good one. This new mini vans are nice riding vehicles.

 

['69FuryIIIConvertible]

My two thoughts on this, the Grand Caravan is a great vehicle, you will love it.

Second thought, if needed I have a few direct contact numbers for MTO enforcement division..

Nick

 

[CBODY67]

I know we want to trust salespeople to "do the right thing", but unless it's in writing, it can be easily forgotten. Especially if the particular salesperson might have left or has a day off.

It's true that their obligation is to sell a vehicle that will "pass inspection" (emissions and/or safety) with no issues. Even if it passes by a thin margin. By the same token, they probably figured they'd sell it and that would be the last they'd see of it, leaving all of the stuff that needed fixing to the new owner to make happen.

In reality, they probably should have sent that DJ to the wholesale auction rather then put it on their lot, IF they traded for it. If they bought it at auction themselves, they might not desire to spend much money on it rather than have a possible future customer for their dealership.

Many car salespeople only know about cosmetic items, in many cases, and trust their used car prep people to give them good vehicles to sell. Getting vehicle scheduled into service can be variable, by observation. Of course, the salesperson probably didn't want a charge-back to his sales commission for any repairs that we needed . . . not an unreasonable orientation. And they might have been "snake bit" by a customer who kept coming back with issues many months later, at some point in time. The desire for short-term profits can negate a long-term customer possibility.

Sorry that you had to go through all of that. Best of luck with the replacement Dodge!

CBODY67

 

[65 500]

The moral of the story is, if you are looking to buy a car, don't go in a Honduh store.

 

[shooter65]

Please post the name of the Honda Dealership so others in the Ontario area can avoid them like the plague.

I had a similar "adventure" with my 98 Dodge 1500 SLT when I bought it new at Humes Chrysler Jeep Dodge & Ram in Waterford, PA. Luckily, I took the time to learn the Lemon Law in PA, they have three chances to fix a problem unless they state they can't fix it, then you can file lemon law. After the second try to fix the dog tracking caused from misalignment, the mechanic said they couldn't fix it so I asked to talk to the SM and told him what the mechanic said and asked if that was accurate. He said it was and I told him I was going to file Lemon Law and he got it scheduled right away and the truck was fixed.

They didn't have an in-house 4-wheel alignment and it cost them to send it out for one so they were trying to avoid it. Rat Bastards.

 

[cantflip]

Glad you got the new one @mr. fix it ,and you as well @shooter65 ...

Lemon Law stuff changes for used cars and across state lines... Safety stuff is non existent down here, but a useful tool sometimes too. I'd have to confirm it, but there is usually a small window to undo a used car deal with a dealer. I suspect the dealer @mr. fix it was dealing with was trying to buy time until the window closed (assuming they have a similar window up there).

IMO, the entire used car business has a scumbag factor to it. It is very hard to find a good used car, that hasn't been wrecked or had some other misfortune. When one does come up, usually somebody has to lose for it to be profitable for the dealer. @Dobalovr ... feel free to set me straight, if you see a flaw. The original owner has to accept a low trade value, the trading dealer has to pad the purchase price of the replacement, the dealer takes a loss, the used car department has to buy at whatever they can get and then don't have enough padding for true repairs to be performed... ultimately, unless someone screws up, the trade in customer and/or the purchasing customer both get a little screwed in a perfect transaction... that way the dealer can make a profit.

I find it's usually best to purchase from a private seller who wants to do better than their trade in value and doesn't need the trade for financing. That's not going to be such an easy find though. Of course with my 10 year old guideline, the car is far beyond competitive financing and has a value that can be easy to manage in cash... so my main judgement comes from years of looking under them before and/or after a sale and seeing what a train wreck many used car lot cars can be.

My last used car manager... almost 15 years ago, would do everything he could to make his new/used inventory avoid my lift... I once rejected 2 truck loads of "this should have been totaled" cars from the factory pre-owned program, that he got fresh from the auction. Every car was from out of state, I assume to "clean" their titles and/or avoid safety inspections. BTW, the dealer DID put those same cars into the preowned program... everyone of which had structural repairs or deficiencies... see where I get the scumbag theory from?

 

[mr. fix it]

I agree that there is a lemon law but not in Canada...
The best we have is 48 hour cooling off period and then small claims court.
The safety inspection is good for 36 days here in Ontario.

There is also OMVIC which I avoided using because I would be stuck for many months (Consumer arbitration board) with the Journey and I quite frankly felt it was a disaster waiting to happen.

The ace in the hole is to report them to the MTO safety division and have their licensed mechanic suspended along with the dealership losing their ability to safety used cars.
This was what is getting their attention and hopefully the Journey repaired so i can trade it in without handing over an unsafe SUV(At least one that passes inspection)

 

[mr. fix it]

My two thoughts on this, the Grand Caravan is a great vehicle, you will love it.

Second thought, if needed I have a few direct contact numbers for MTO enforcement division..

Nick

I have them too Nick,
I used to work for the MTO & spent time in that division.

 

[mr. fix it]

Flippin' crooks. Glad the end was/will be a good one. This new mini vans are nice riding vehicles.

That's exactly what I need right now.
This has the touring suspension that offers a softer ride than the std suspension.

 

[mr. fix it]

I know we want to trust salespeople to "do the right thing", but unless it's in writing, it can be easily forgotten. Especially if the particular salesperson might have left or has a day off.

It's true that their obligation is to sell a vehicle that will "pass inspection" (emissions and/or safety) with no issues. Even if it passes by a thin margin. By the same token, they probably figured they'd sell it and that would be the last they'd see of it, leaving all of the stuff that needed fixing to the new owner to make happen.

In reality, they probably should have sent that DJ to the wholesale auction rather then put it on their lot, IF they traded for it. If they bought it at auction themselves, they might not desire to spend much money on it rather than have a possible future customer for their dealership.

Many car salespeople only know about cosmetic items, in many cases, and trust their used car prep people to give them good vehicles to sell. Getting vehicle scheduled into service can be variable, by observation. Of course, the salesperson probably didn't want a charge-back to his sales commission for any repairs that we needed . . . not an unreasonable orientation. And they might have been "snake bit" by a customer who kept coming back with issues many months later, at some point in time. The desire for short-term profits can negate a long-term customer possibility.

Sorry that you had to go through all of that. Best of luck with the replacement Dodge!

CBODY67

You my friend hit the nail on the head!

This was one of the comments I made to them.
Short term profits & lost a customer for life & the ripple affect of me advising anyone who how thinks about dealing with them in the future.

 

[mr. fix it]

They kept repeating that that trust their mechanic & it passes inspection. his license is on the line sir he wouldn't make mistakes like this... yada yada yada...

Problem is, he is a Honda mechanic not a Dodge or general repairs mechanic.
In the dealer world all you need to know if that Brand.

In the private non dealer world as a mechanic you are expected to know every make model & brand or you're an idiot!

I used to go through this all the time when a BMW would roll into the shop and the owner expected us to know right away how to fix the car.
I would state right away it would take time to review the correct way to do it which made for a very happy customer most days unless we couldn't get the car in and out in a single day or hour at some times...
Thisa even included resetting the oil service interval computer which a ton of general wrenches missed way too often.
BMW at the time had a special tool to interface with the computer to reset it and they didn't sell it to anyone but the BMW garages.
talk about cornering the customer into a $200+ oil service.

 

[Zymurgy]

What a nightmare, sounds like you have a nice van to replace it. My aunt and uncle have had Carvans for years now, the only vehicle they were comfortable for long trips, and my uncle has severe back problems.

 

[mr. fix it]

What a nightmare, sounds like you have a nice van to replace it. My aunt and uncle have had Carvans for years now, the only vehicle they were comfortable for long trips, and my uncle has severe back problems.

I’ve heard good reports on this
With the touring suspension it should work for me as well

 

[kmccabe56]

You should have gone to the MOT after the first conversation. Playing "nice" with a dealer just encourages them to keep screwing you over.

I don't know how to say it any other way but the 2010 Dodge Journey that came home with me about a month ago is coming to an end & going to the local Dodge dealership & a brand new Caravan Crew with multiple upgrades is coming to replace the void in our daily driver lives.

the journey as much as I wanted to like/love/enjoy was just not cut out for life with Mr. fix it.

Right from the day we test drove it it has a clunking rattle in the front the Honda dealer promised to fix & did not even though they had a week to prep it remained.
the past month has been spent trying to be a nice guy about things but this past Sunday was the icing on the cake when for the first time I tried to peep the horn to a neighbour as we drove away and the stupid thing didn't work!

We have to have a Provincial inspection for safety when transferring ownership and there were concerns and from the get go the clunk was still present with the mechanic claiming they could not hear it.
I heard the second I pulled away...
This was just the start of the adventure...
I took it back and again the yclaimed there was nothing wrong and all was good.
I then took it to a local trusted garage for diagnosis.
The first words out of his mouth after checking it was 'could i take it back and get my money back?"
I was puzzled about this since it is a low mileage DJ.
He told me these suspensions front ans back keep him busy replacing struts, sway bar bushings, ball joints control arm bushings, etc.
All of which needed replacing on my DJ.
This was the front at first I was concerned about.
Everything had play in it with the exception of the new rear struts...
He did say that most of it passed inspection but barely.

So off I go with an estimate to present to the selling dealership.
They turn around ans state it all passes and that' what they are responsible for.
Failed to bring up the fact they promised to fix the clunking. I didn't forget though.
(Top strut load bearings...) Totally shot as I suspected when writing up the agreement
so fast forward to last Thursday afternoon. i had to stop suddenly for a car in front that made a left hand turn without brake lights.
I jabbed the brakes to slow down and suddenly this is pulling to the left into oncoming traffic if I left it but i held on and kept it in my lane.
(A typical issue with worn lower control arm bushings on our modern FWD cars)
so after I change into clean undershorts off igo again to the stealership and tell them happened. i was able to reproduce the action and the response was from the salesperson, "Hey, I'm not a mechanic we can have a look at it sometime next week".
The excuses are coming sure and strong since the pickup date.

Oh, I forgot to mention it was smoked in and they used some bubble gum perfume smell to cover it up.

so they keep putting me off with some sob stories on how the mechanic quit an they don't have time to fit me in.
I do my best to be understanding but I'm running out of time since we are planning to leave to SC to visit our daughter next week.
So back to the horn issue.
I took it to my mechanic for a full inspection only t find out the rear suspension is in big trouble too.
That's it and i go back to request my money back.
the best I finally get is if you buy a brand new Honda then you get full credit but until again I fight for this. after 3 weeks of owning this little turd they offer me the current trade value of $5,000!

I can't afford a new Honda but consider it but the only comfortable auto for me is an Oddessey and it comes to over $50,000 not even including extended warranty or other up charges.

They finally admitted that there are some issues but only replacing again parts to pass inspection. the rest is my own dime.

So I've had enough and go to the local Dodge dealer and made a deal for a B/N 2017 Grand Caravan Crew Plus with all the things needed to make life comfortable.
the touring suspension saved the day and I am out the door with the extended warranties and all for less than $40,000cdn

The final kick in the teeth is when this morning i call to see if all parts ahve arrived to the Honda dealer and they ask why the hurry and I tell them I sold it. now all bets are off and they tell me they will take it back to fix next Wednesday. 2 full days after i trade it in.
I tell them i need it for Monday at the latest.
They refused because they lost my business
I finally threatened to report them to the Ministry of Transportation safety inspection division (which I did many years ago )
I demand a courtesy auto as well and after terminating the call they call back and ask when I can drop it off
I reminded them I have to pick it up no later than 5pm Monday afternoon or the buying dealership will be informed of what took place And they are well aware of the issues typically associated with the DJ’s
Funny part is that my wife takes it in and ups the anti by demanding it be fixed by 5pm tomorrow or else the MTO is coming to do a reinspection or the poop will hit the fan

 

[Dobalovr]

Tom it is unfortunate that you have experienced the “make it pass and nothing else” process of Used Vehicle Recon in todays marketplace. @CBODY67 and @cantflip have the gist of what transpired correct. When the Dealer took the car in trade it is likely that the Used Vehicle Mgr didn’t even get out of his chair to appraise it. Most stores now use Market Evaluating Software to determine trade values and eventual asking price that will be competitive with other similar vehicles. For example: The software says that there are currently 12 2009 Dodge Journeys like the one being traded in currently on the market. The average asking price is say $8000 and the average recon is $2500. The MGR will then back out what he wants for gross profit lets say $2000 so that means he needs to buy in the car around $3500 but you don’t want to be the same price as all the others you want to turn the inventory fast so you are going to market the car for less than the other guys..say $7500 so now you need to buy it for $3000. Do you see where this leads? Its a race to the bottom as every 2009 DJ that gets appraised after this one will need to beat $7500!! A Dealer is only required to recon the vehicle enough to PASS not to return the vehicle to as NEW condition which would render it priced out of the market. Did the Dealer give you a copy of both the Used Vehicle Inspection and the Carproof? And if they did, did they note any of the issues you mentioned? OMVIC is very clear that Dealers must disclose all they know of a vehicle to the purchaser. In this case this car should never have ended up on the lot and should have been sent to a wholesaler or auction. I am glad you decided to go with a New Grand Caravan. My wife and I have had 7 of them over the years and they served us well. If you would like any insight into the pricing or if you run into any other issues you can always contact me.

 

[rapidtrans]

For some reason the Journey never impressed me. I'd go for the T&C or Caravan too.