New Member, 1967 Imperial

[bajajoaquin]

Although I have driven my daughter to day care in the Imperial before, once realized the extent of the brake and carb work, I stopped driving her in it. I started again this morning. She really likes it. I mean, she's one, so I can only tell if she's not crying. But she can look out the back window, and I got a big smile and wave when I walked around the car and waved to her through it.

I also have my "daily-driver" kit in the trunk: a milk crate with a couple quarts of oil, ATF, a long funnel, and a rag. Every fill-up gets an oil, ATF and power steering check. I have to get back in the habit.

When I was closing the hood after checking the oil, I hear, tink, tink! Crap. The center fell out of the hood ornament!



I'm sure with a little glue, it will be right as rain.

And by the way, what ATF do you guys use? Dex/Merc or the "general use" ATF?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Type F the new dexron/merconIII does not have right friction modifiers in it type F has not been reformulated for new transmissions cause no new trans use type F, you can use dexron/merconIII in a pinch I think it technically is backwards compatible.

 

[Zymurgy]

Type F here too. The only oil my guy who rebuilds Mopar transmissions will put in the car.

 

[bajajoaquin]

When I joined back in December, I told you that I bought my '67 Crown Sedan to use as a daily driver, if possible. I thought I'd give an update, and some impressions.


Since buying the car, I have done quite a bit of work to it:


New rotors
Rebuilt calipers
New pads
New shoes
Turned drums
New flexible hoses
New Edelbrock Carburator
New muffler
Repaired window clutch
New shocks (front)
New air shocks (rear, not yet installed)


On the very-soon-to do list is tires, and trying to address the rattling Isolators.


My original budget was $5500, including purchase price of the car. I blew through that, mostly because I had a shop install the shocks, which were listed in the factory book as a 13 hour job. My mechanic only charged me 10.5 for the job, including all the brake work. So cheaper than it should have been, but I had only budgeted $350, and it cost me $1000. With tires, I'm going to be at about $6200. Not bad. Assuming I do the assembly and installation myself, I figure I have about another $3500 to go in rebuilding the engine, transmission and front end. That will (hopefully) take place over the next couple years, so I can spread it out.


Some interesting things about driving an old car after driving new ones:


Direct-acting gauges. Modern gauges have a lot of hysteresis. So they're designed to go straight to the middle of the operating range and stay there unless there's a problem. Old guagues just say what it is. So it took a while to get used to the temp and oil gauges fluctuating.
Wing windows. Love 'em.
Leaks. This thing leaks everywhere! Rear main seal, power steering box, trans pan. None of it is too extreme, but I do have a milk crate in the trunk with rags, a funnel, and fluids, so maintaining the fluid levels is easy.


One thing that's worrying me a bit is the noises I can hear now that I have a new muffler. It sounds like the engine is revving a bit too high on the highway at 60-65 mph. However, I'm not sure that there's a problem. It could be: 1) Normal. Three-speed transmissions are direct drive, and it's normal to run 1000 RPM higher than modern OD cars. So this could just be what it's supposed to sound like. 2) It could be tires. My tires are old and need replacement. They could just be making noise. However, there seems to be some (but not complete) correlation between being on the gas and not. 3) Rear end? It sounds like it is coming from the front, but it's a little dependent on load, so that might be a possibility. 3) Wheel bearings or brakes? My mechanic did an inspection the day after I bought the car, and he claimed that it all looked good, and it doesn't sound like a brake rubbing sound. So I'm not going to worry too much about it until I get new tires, and can see what I hear then.


Speaking of brakes, I think they're still rubbing a bit. I've replaced the soft hoses, and the calipers were rebuilt, so I'm not sure what the next step would be. I'll probably spend some time on the Imperial Club site to see if I can pick up any ideas.


It also gets really, really crappy gas mileage. The carb seems a bit rich, and I'm going to get that adjusted today. I'm also hoping that there's some brake drag that can be cleared up. Last, I'm thinking that new tires will also help a little bit. I'd like to get mid-teens.


Thanks again for all the help and support I've gotten from you guys so far. It's been really important to feel like I can get answers, and there's light at the end of the tunnel.


Jonathan

 

[MrMoparCHP]

Older cars are just a little noisier than new cars, you are correct on the trans and because of that it will be noisier. I’d also check your rear end gear, make sure the fluid is correct, even still if worn it may make noise. I doubt the brakes are dragging, these are sort of self correcting, if you can pull the drum with little effort they are not dragging. Mileage, if the engine is worn say 100k plus then live with the subpar mileage. With some work on the engine and carb you might get it to maybe 12 mpg but I would upgrade to electronic ignition and that will give you another couple mpg.

Alan

 

[bajajoaquin]

Alan, thanks. Rear end is on the list. However, as mentioned elseswhere, I think it's the fan. A guy on the Imperial list has a correct fan for me, and he happens to be local, so I can drive up there, see his '68, and pick up a fan at the same time.

After some carb adjustment, the car is running really well. The flat spot is almost gone, and until I have gone through the engine compartment and traced all the vacuum lines for a leak, I'm not going to worry about it. More importantly, it starts with the first twist of the key when cold, and idles while I put my daughter in her seat. It still idles a little roughly, but that is probably a bad valve (yes, I still need to do my compression and leak-down).

All of my windows work now, with some qualifications. A couple are slow, and the left rear seat goes down with the driver's panel, but only back up with the rear panel. Also, the right rear window is aligned badly. I'll put up posts in the proper forum when I tackle that.

In the mean time, I thought I'd post up some pictures of the interior. It's generally in good shape for an unrestored car.



The driver's seat is saggy, and has a couple rips. I've contacted an upholstery company to see about getting some replacement fabric. If it's in stock, I might get some for future use, but if they are making it, I'll probably wait, since I can just pay later, right?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

What carb did you go with and what is timing at because stock specs are not for top mileage, remember gas was what about 18-24 cents a gallon 12 was acceptable in 67. You need to verify your timing mark is truly tdc, then set total timing around 33-35degrees btdc at around 3300 rpm. If your still running stock dist vacuum advance adjust should be good only problem would be too much advance at idle (hard starting rough idle which is fixable).

 

[bajajoaquin]

Yeah, I've had some issues with timing. My timing mark isn't that clear, and the markers on the timing cover aren't clear either. Add that to my eyes, which seem to have decided to get worse in the last year, and I've been trusting that others doing work have been getting it done right. I'll chalk it up to something else I need to stop procrastinating about and get done.

One thing, at least, has gotten done, though. Tires. I got a set of 235/75-15 Mastercraft white walls today. Local guy had a special on 4 no-name white walls in the same size for $400 installed, all taxes, etc. I called to ask if he had either Cooper or Mastercraft and a price. He was $20 more than the best price I found, and $50 or $60 better than most. So I paid a small premium for a known brand over whatever else he had.

Pics tomorrow when I wash the car.

Interestingly, I had never thought to check the size of the tires that were on it previously. Since they were RWL Goodyear STs which were a little old, I had known they were coming off. I didn't care what the size was of the tires I was throwing away. They were 225/70R15. My handy tire size calculator says that was 1.5 inches shorter than the 235s.

They were also weirdly cracked. Never seen the shoulders have cracks before:



Also interesting that one wheel had mismatched lugs.



The tire guys did a nice job, though. I forgot to remind them about left-hand threads, but there were no stripped or broken lugs. They told me an hour, but I came by at an hour and 45 minutes, and saw the poor guy going at my wheels with a wire wheel to get rid of some rust on the bead (it's a Minnesota car originally). All told, it took them closer to 3 hours to get it done. I think they also gave me long valve stems. The stock covers are pretty bulky, and it makes it hard to check the pressure with them on. Looking forward to having proper pressure easy to accomplish.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I would say cracks like that from sitting flat for quite a time.

 

[detmatt]

Can't wait to see how it looks, is it washed yet?

 

[bajajoaquin]

Jeez, Matt. it's 3 hours earlier in Detroit! Still only 5:00 here. And even though it's San Diego, it's still night time in January, and a bit too cold to be getting out the hose.

What carb did you go with and what is timing at because stock specs are not for top mileage, remember gas was what about 18-24 cents a gallon 12 was acceptable in 67. You need to verify your timing mark is truly tdc, then set total timing around 33-35degrees btdc at around 3300 rpm. If your still running stock dist vacuum advance adjust should be good only problem would be too much advance at idle (hard starting rough idle which is fixable).

I realized that I talked about timing, but not your other comments. I went with the Edelbrock 750. Going back to the issue of workspace, I can't really do anything myself that may make the car immobile if I don't finish in a day. I paid to have it installed. It's gotten tuned so that it runs nice, but I don't think it's been tuned for maximum fuel efficiency. Doing that tuning, however, is something I can/will do myself, since fiddling won't make it immobile.

A previous owner switched the ignition to Mopar Performance electronic timing. Distributor appears stock, with vacuum advance.

12 mpg would be great. I'm hoping for 13, maybe 14 if I'm not driving around town. My Cadillac got 13, 13.5, and my truck got about that before I removed the camper (gets 17 without it). So I'm not really looking at this with super-high expectations. Out of single digits would be good. Low teens would be fantastic.

I think the tires will help. I don't really know the pressures of the old tires, because with the short stems, it was a pain in the rear to check. So I didn't. They were undersized and probably low, so I'm sure they had higher-than-optimal rolling resistance. I also loaned my brother my small (quiet) compressor with air chuck, which I left on all the time with a 50' hose. It was easy to keep tires inflated on all cars and trucks. I'm getting that back today. So properly inflated tires will help.

The fan will likely help when switched, too. I'm going to a fellow Imperialist's house on Tuesday to check out his cars, and he has a fan for me. I'll buy a clutch and get that swapped.

Timing and carb adjustments should give some gains, too.

At the end of the day, I still have an old, tired 440, so as I said, I'm not hoping for miracles. Just a little less pain at the pump.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

As long as not smoking or missing(low compression cylinder) the timing chain is probably shot/worn decent mileage on highway of 14-16 should not be out of reach I got 13 out of a 440 with a 292/.509 cam 2.94 rear and short little 235/60,14 tires and a eddy 750 box stock although I don't think there is much more improvement in carb at cruise, this is also with dead low compression smogger 440 maybe 8-1 more squeeze will help cruise mpg because of less cylinder filling which you have. Verify your tdc mark I would be very surpised if it is spot on in a big block

 

[bajajoaquin]

As long as not smoking or missing(low compression cylinder) the timing chain is probably shot/worn decent mileage on highway of 14-16 should not be out of reach...

I'm not following what you're saying here. You are guessing my timing chain is worn? Or are you saying if it isn't, I should be able to get 14-16?

The plan was to wash my car when I went to my mom's house to clean out a garage so that a family friend could park his '57 T-Bird (his parents were the original owners) in there. But we measured, and we would have had to dismantle a set of storage shelves to make it fit. So I washed my mom's car and mine instead. I've got to say, I didn't wax it or polish anything, but it cleaned up nicely. It also made it easy to see all the different colors of paint from body damage over the years, but I didn't get too worked up over it. Lots of time to piss and moan when I get to the bodywork stage of the project.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I would say its worn seems like they all are its inherent of the nylon covered aluminum gear but if its not shot i.e. real bad and compression check results in close, normal numbers I think 14+ on highway is doable.

 

[detmatt]

That Imp looks great, it needed those white walls badly! You can check your chain by turning the engine by hand with a breaker bar and a 1 1/4" socket back and forth slightly with the distributer cap off. See how long it takes for the rotor to move when changing the direction of engine rotation. Mine was not in need of replacement after 136,000 miles btw but probably an exception to the rule though.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Yes car does look good I hit the post button to quick.

 

[bajajoaquin]

Thanks, guys. It definitely looks better from across the street than it does close up. But it's good enough to drive, and for now, that's what counts.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I'll bet it looks good going by at 60-70 mph lol.

 

[bajajoaquin]

So the bipolar owner is on a downswing again. There are two main issues, both suspension related. First is that after getting new tires, it pulls really badly to the left. I tried to justify it to myself that it was... I don't know what. But I think it may be related to issue 2. Anyway, I am going to go back to the tire guys and tell them that it's way worse after they worked on it, and see if they will swap the front tires.

Issue 2 is the Isolators. I met with another local Imperial owner (former '67 owner) and he's of the opinion that I'm being an idiot by being so casual about finding replacement isolators. For whatever reason that got through to me. After talking about isolators, clunks, pulling suspension, and my other issue with adjusting screws not having travel left, we were thinking that a number of my issues could well be due to worn isolators. The problem is that I can't find any isolators around to send off to be rebuilt, and I don't have a place to put the car while I take it apart to have them rebuilt.

So I called my brother, who just bought a new house with a carport, and I'm going to go over there and move all the stuff out of the way, and put my Imperial up on stands for the 3-4 weeks it will take to remove, rebuild, and replace. His wife is going to be stoked.

I'm a little bummed it is going to be off the road, and sitting on blocks, risking a long-term berth, but I think that I need to fix this problem before I look at alignment and other issues. It can only get worse if I don't look at it now.

Grrrr.

 

[detmatt]

This is probably a good choice, make sure you photo document the whole job and let us watch.