Timing and engine temp

[Timmayy]

My wife's 67 Fury wagon seems to run on the higher side of normal temp. I remember in the past someone talking about the timing being off a little will affect the temp. Right now the 318 2 barrel runs perfect. I had the rad flushed, better fan, fan shroud and new water pump and thermostat. Should I mess with the timing?

 

[Big_John]

My wife's 67 Fury wagon seems to run on the higher side of normal temp. I remember in the past someone talking about the timing being off a little will affect the temp. Right now the 318 2 barrel runs perfect. I had the rad flushed, better fan, fan shroud and new water pump and thermostat. Should I mess with the timing?

IMHO, the best way to approach this would be to hook up your timing light and figure out where you are now. Advance it a few degrees and try it. If it knocks under acceleration, back it off. Keep doing this until you find the "sweet spot".

Some will say you don't need a timing light to do this... Just twist the distributor and try it. That's ok, but it's harder to return to your original point... Or if you need to reset the timing after some work, you can just set it where you want first thing.

Everyone with an old car should own a timing light... Even just a cheap one.

And yes, timing can make a difference in temperature. This might not be your issue, but it's a no cost thing to try.

 

[57fury440]

What Big_John said. And get a timing light.

 

[CBODY67]

If the radiator needed to be cleaned out, so might the coolant passages in the block. With the age of the car, probably time for some new freeze plugs not too far in the future, usually. Presuming the thermostat is a 180 degree F model?

Is the heater working well? If you use a flush solution in the block prior to the freeze plug replacement, DO change the heater hoses to delete the heater core from the circuit. Reason? The same flush which will remove any accumulation from the engine block passages can also remove any scale in the heater core, which might then LEAK. So taking the heater core out of the circuit can prevent this. Unless you are getting ready to replace the heater core anyway.

In the mean time, verifying the base ignition timing is good to do, INCLUDING checking to see if the vac advance is working. You can also check the engine temps with an IR heat gun, too, to verify the temp gauge reading.

If the temp gauge needle is maybe two-needle widths past the center mark, no problems, but do verify that the timing is correct.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

 

[Just Carbs]

Retarded timing can cause overheating.

 

[Timmayy]

I know big and small blocks are opposite. Is small block clockwise or counter clockwise to advance the timing?

 

[Timmayy]

If the radiator needed to be cleaned out, so might the coolant passages in the block. With the age of the car, probably time for some new freeze plugs not too far in the future, usually. Presuming the thermostat is a 180 degree F model?

Is the heater working well? If you use a flush solution in the block prior to the freeze plug replacement, DO change the heater hoses to delete the heater core from the circuit. Reason? The same flush which will remove any accumulation from the engine block passages can also remove any scale in the heater core, which might then LEAK. So taking the heater core out of the circuit can prevent this. Unless you are getting ready to replace the heater core anyway.

In the mean time, verifying the base ignition timing is good to do, INCLUDING checking to see if the vac advance is working. You can also check the engine temps with an IR heat gun, too, to verify the temp gauge reading.

If the temp gauge needle is maybe two-needle widths past the center mark, no problems, but do verify that the timing is correct.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

New motor, new freeze plugs and all the top end done. Been flushed.

 

[Big_John]

I know big and small blocks are opposite. Is small block clockwise or counter clockwise to advance the timing?

Small block distributor rotates clockwise (CW) and a big block counterclockwise (CCW)

So to advance a small block, turn the distributor counterclockwise (CCW).

 

[Gerald Morris]

IMHO, the best way to approach this would be to hook up your timing light and figure out where you are now. Advance it a few degrees and try it. If it knocks under acceleration, back it off. Keep doing this until you find the "sweet spot".

Some will say you don't need a timing light to do this... Just twist the distributor and try it. That's ok, but it's harder to return to your original point... Or if you need to reset the timing after some work, you can just set it where you want first thing.

Everyone with an old car should own a timing light... Even just a cheap one.

And yes, timing can make a difference in temperature. This might not be your issue, but it's a no cost thing to try.

Use a Sharpie or a sharp punch and mark your distributor's sweet spot(s) on the hold down clamp, then mark IT too. This makes replacing distributors, timing the engine et al a good deal easier, esp if one needs to do it in situ on the roadside sans timing light. One can even contrive a pointer to fasten around the distributor. I probably will do this sooner rather than later.

You're SOOOO right about the Timing Light Imperative! I can now take my old one with me if needs be when tooling around. Next year, I expect I'll be canvassing the masses again, so having the full panoply of motor fixin' tools and parts helps.

 

[Lefty71]

Is small block clockwise or counter clockwise to advance the timing?

Im certainly not THAT GUY that doesnt use a timing light lol, but you usually notice by ear the motor getting peppy and idle speeding up a bit as you advance, and the opposite happening as you retard.
I think this is partly why people are fooled when they dont use a light....it sounded GREAT at idle, then off you go to burn a hole in the piston.

 

[Timmayy]

The whole cooling system has been done. Flushed, new parts etc. I did advance the timing a bit and it seemed to help. Temp was lower. Timing is probably the issue. I'll hook up the timing light tomorrow. Thanks.

 

[Gerald Morris]

The whole cooling system has been done. Flushed, new parts etc. I did advance the timing a bit and it seemed to help. Temp was lower. Timing is probably the issue. I'll hook up the timing light tomorrow. Thanks.

Your whole debacle inspires me to advance my timing a few degrees. It wasn't a noticeable issue until a couple weeks ago, when I got on the freeway for longer than usual. Running over 3500 rpm for some time get Gertrude hotter than I like, and I suspect the mech advance should be set at a higher ceiling. This I can do, next time I open my distributor, having a limiter plate in it now.

 

[rags]

thermal cameras work great for finding hot spots. you'll know just how well that radiator flush went. open the radiator cap and see if you can see the radiator core. if there is solder bloom at the ends of the passages, flushing won't remove it. the radiator would have to be disassembled and rodded.

 

[Gerald Morris]

thermal cameras work great for finding hot spots. you'll know just how well that radiator flush went. open the radiator cap and see if you can see the radiator core. if there is solder bloom at the ends of the passages, flushing won't remove it. the radiator would have to be disassembled and rodded.

Rodding out a radiator has plenty merit in any case when its an aged, dirty radiator. Can make a huge difference too! I urge the OP to do so at his earliest convenience.

 

[Timmayy]

Rodding out a radiator has plenty merit in any case when its an aged, dirty radiator. Can make a huge difference too! I urge the OP to do so at his earliest convenience.

The radiator was flushed and fixed at a local shop earlier this year.

 

['66 Fury I]

While I am familiar with the term "rodding" a radiator, I've never seen it done. What does the tool look like? Is it an actual rod, or a type of brush, or what? Thanks Lindsay

 

[Timmayy]

Rodding out a radiator has plenty merit in any case when its an aged, dirty radiator. Can make a huge difference too! I urge the OP to do so at his earliest convenience.

What is rodding out a radiator?

 

[Big_John]

While I am familiar with the term "rodding" a radiator, I've never seen it done. What does the tool look like? Is it an actual rod, or a type of brush, or what? Thanks Lindsay

What is rodding out a radiator?

Basically, it involves unsoldering the top and bottom tanks from the radiator core, then inserting small rods/wires into the core to push out any buildup. It's then cleaned with muriatic acid and the tanks are soldered back on.

I don't think a lot of shops do this anymore.

 

[Lefty71]

What is rodding out a radiator?

Repair Your Radiator by Rodding or Recoring

 

[rags]

What does the tool look like?

flat flexible stainless steel rod. goes down the tubes of the core. i worked for a shop that did this work. had it done to the radiator in my '69. like night and day. next, look up solder bloom.