Vapor lock and flooding on 383

[OneEyed]

My car has been running great lately, or so I thought.

Tonight I had to run a few errands and decided to drive the Newport. I drove about 7 minutes to the first store, was inside for only 5 minutes. Came out and it fired right up no problem.

Then I drove about 100 yards to the next store and shopped for about 20 minutes. Came out and it would not start at all.

Engine was not too hot at all, only 75 degrees outside at most, plus it was now dark by this time.

The car has been running great otherwise but this was my first time this season running in and out of anywhere with it.

I've had vapor lock before with the old 2 barrel but only on hot days and it always started easier than it did tonight.

It's got the 1406 on it now and I thought I had it dialed in good.

In the past, with the stock 2 barrel, I would just pump it while starting it and it would eventually fire up.

It got to the point tonight where I thought the battery was gonna die. Plus I think I flooded it too.

What's the best way to start a vapor locked engine and a flooded engine? Is it possible to vapor lock it when it's not that hot?

 

[3C's & a D?]

So, did it eventually start? A cold engine vapor locking, doubtful if not impossible. How's the coil and points condensor?

 

[3C's & a D?]

Forgot to add "drove about a hundred yards"? Come on man.

 

[Knebel]

With the edelbrock design anything is possible. Min would stall on on leftturns and vapor lock all the time. Didnt happen with a holley. And now certainly nit with efi

 

[300rag]

...

What's the best way to start a vapor locked engine and a flooded engine? ...

For a flooded engine we just put the accelerator to the floor and cranked. Usually started after a bit of cranking. Do not release the pedal until the car has started, or you have given up. A bit of throttle feathering will be required until all the excess fuel has been used.

 

[3C's & a D?]

With the edelbrock design anything is possible. Min would stall on on leftturns and vapor lock all the time. Didnt happen with a holley. And now certainly nit with efi

If it was stalling while turning the floats were too high. Only on left turns seems odd, perhaps only one was high? Calibrating the eddys to your elevation makes a big difference.

 

[OneEyed]

So, did it eventually start? A cold engine vapor locking, doubtful if not impossible. How's the coil and points condensor?

Yeah, it finally started after about ten minutes.

 

[OneEyed]

Forgot to add "drove about a hundred yards"? Come on man.

Yeah, one end of the plaza to the other....

 

[detmatt]

Have you looked at your fuel pump pushrod lately?

 

[OneEyed]

" How's the coil and points condensor?"
Both are original as far as I know.

"Have you looked at your fuel pump pushrod lately?"
Nope, not a clue.

What do I need to look for on the pushrod?
Once I finally got the car started it ran fine. I got home and shut it off for a few minutes and then fired it up again no problem. So I waited about 20 minutes and tried again, took a second or two this time, but fired right up.

 

[Knebel]

If it was stalling while turning the floats were too high. Only on left turns seems odd, perhaps only one was high? Calibrating the eddys to your elevation makes a big difference.

Yep, very odd. The floats were exactly in spec. It wasnt an edelbrock but a carter, which is pretty much the same. Never could get this thing to run reliable. Sold that carb and put a holley on which i modified with annular boosters and it was like a different car, even the mileage went up, no more stalling and whatnot. Then the efi system came out at a good price and that now runs like a modern car! The guy i sold the holley to also said "my car has never ran that great before".

 

[Davea Lux]

" How's the coil and points condensor?"
Both are original as far as I know.

"Have you looked at your fuel pump pushrod lately?"
Nope, not a clue.

What do I need to look for on the pushrod?
Once I finally got the car started it ran fine. I got home and shut it off for a few minutes and then fired it up again no problem. So I waited about 20 minutes and tried again, took a second or two this time, but fired right up.

You would need to pull off the fuel pump and remove the drive rod for the fuel pump. Over time, they sometimes get worn to the point where they are too short to properly cycle the fuel pump. This results in low fuel volume and low fuel pressure. Given that the car runs fine most of the time, I do not think that that is your problem. Check your heat riser to be sure it is not stuck closed and over heating the carb causing it to boil and flood the engine. You could also have a piece of crud that broke loose and fouled the needle valve in the carb causing it to flood, If you remove the air cleaner after the engine has run awhile and then been shut off you should be able to see fuel dripping out of the air horns on the carb if this is your problem.

Dave

 

[OneEyed]

You would need to pull off the fuel pump and remove the drive rod for the fuel pump. Over time, they sometimes get worn to the point where they are too short to properly cycle the fuel pump. This results in low fuel volume and low fuel pressure. Given that the car runs fine most of the time, I do not think that that is your problem. Check your heat riser to be sure it is not stuck closed and over heating the carb causing it to boil and flood the engine. You could also have a piece of crud that broke loose and fouled the needle valve in the carb causing it to flood, If you remove the air cleaner after the engine has run awhile and then been shut off you should be able to see fuel dripping out of the air horns on the carb if this is your problem.

Dave

The heat riser is on the passenger side exhaust manifold, correct? That moves freely. I did notice gas dripping down, not where the air filter sits but maybe that seem on the top section of the carb. My owners manual doesn't say anything about needle valves.

Feel free to talk to me like I'm an idiot, lol, I'm still new to all this carburetor stuff.

 

[OneEyed]

Also, I had the electric choke turned all the way forward (rich), even beyond the little tick marks, that's where it seemed to run the best...not sure if that means anything. But when I pulled the air cleaner off last night the choke flapper was all the way shut.

 

[pomonamissel]

well here in crappy gas california , its an all time of year issue . i block off the heat passage under the carb on both sides at the heads , put a stack of gaskets and spacer thin alum plates to keep the heat off the carb . todays gas boils off easier then old stuff do to that ethanol crap and it boils at @180 deg . carrying gas fumes up to the lid of the air cleaner , then dropping into the intake plenum . flooding the air track with fuel fumes . wide open throttle during the restart just like being flooded works . but this process will wash down cylinders and pistons and rings . polluting the oil and causing excess wear on internal parts , would make my oil stink of gas . my eddy carb was the worst for it . went to a weber made carter afb it was better but still needed that heat tobe reduced , oh and both are electric choke models , no heat stove anymore . and when you shut the engine off all that heat rises up . doesn't your temp gauge show rise up in temp after you shut it off . mine runs better year round now .

 

[pomonamissel]

you need to readjust that choke as well . should not be choke unless its cold .

 

[Davea Lux]

If you are running that much choke, you have an over lean condition. Check your idle screw adjustment. Check to be sure you have the carb properly jetted for your application. Today's crap gas usually requires about one or two sizes larger jets to run adequately. If you have a metering rod carb, you will need to raise up your metering rods to get a richer mixture. Also check for the obvious things like a big vacuum leak.
May have a blown intake manifold gasket or bad brake booster. Since this is a non-stock carb I suspect you have a jetting or metering rod issue.

Dave

 

[detmatt]

This is the way my car acted early on and progressively got worse. I looked at everything over more than a years time before finally finding the fuel pump rod was 3/8" shorter than it should have been.

 

[1978 NYB]

I have driven 100,000 miles on a 1406 without ever making any adjustment on the carb. Never any starting problems even after sitting for a couple of months over the winter. I would put all the adjustments on the 1406 back to factory specs and look for fuel pump/rod issues. Have you have a pressure gauge connected to the fuel line and check PSI?

 

[Big_John]

You can do a quick volume check on the fuel pump with a rubber hose and a 12 oz. soda bottle. With someone cranking the engine over (disconnect the coil wire at the coil) the pump should fill the bottle about 1/2 way. If it doesn't, then you can inspect the pump rod and if that's OK, replace the pump.

Actually... I just think you flooded it. Don't pump the gas on a hot start.

But... You also said you haven't even looked at the points. If you are going to run a points type distributor, understand that you do have to do some PM on a regular basis.