AC no longer working

Sorry Stan R12a is flammable... as are some others...

I don't care if you are recharging with plutonium239, it's your car, life...
My favorite courses in College were Statistics. I always go with the odds.
Much ado about nothing.

FLAMMABILITY

Is DURACOOL® flammable?
Like all hydrocarbons, DURACOOL® is flammable, and must be handled accordingly. Practically all lubricants, additives and oils used in the engine of a car are flammable. Gasoline is flammable. Hair spray, deodorant and whipped cream aerosol propellants are flammable. All must be transported, handled and utilized (or installed) using safe practices and following instructions where possible.

Have there been studies to determine the potential level of incidence, in terms of ignited automobile compartment leakage?
Internationally respected risk assessors Arthur D. Little, in a detailed UK-based study, estimated the risk of an ignited refrigerant leak in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle as being in the area of 3 in 10 million. Their findings, from a local perspective, mean that if every car in the USA (some 50 to 60 million vehicles) were to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant such an accident might occur once in every 50 years.

What would the impact of and "incident level, once every 50 years" ignited automobile compartment leakage actually be?
In terms of the "impact", it is important to recognize that automobiles generally have 12-15 ounces of DURACOOL® refrigerant. If there were a full amount leak into an automobile compartment and it ignited, it would theoretically create a "flash" which would last 1-1.5 seconds.

There are eminent Risk Assessment Reports available which document the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerants in motor vehicle air conditioning systems.

What is the difference between regular propane and the refrigerant propane that is used to manufacture the DURACOOL® products?
The propane that is regularly used for barbecues, and general consumer or commercial use is a by product of the hydrocarbon manufacturing process (the production and refining of raw oil products). The propane used for standard applications (such as your home barbecue). In order to utilize the product as "refrigerant grade" the product is further refined to render out methane gases and other impurities. This refrigerant propane is different in many ways, most notably is the disparity in the auto ignition. Essentially this refining makes the product safer and more stable. The Auto ignition for regular grade propane is 842 F, while the DURACOOL® product's auto ignition is 1635 F.

Why does DURACOOL® have the scent of propane?
The additive "ethyl mercaptin" is actually a stenching agent that is added for safety reasons. Mercaptan, as it is commonly known, is added to natural gas, propane, butane and virtually all gases as an agent that will alert the user to any leakage. The addition of mercapan should be viewed as a safety feature (see below). Mercaptan is also condensable in the AC system and cannot limit performance in any way and will not negatively impact components. The mercaptan smell is not detectable under regular working conditions or under normal install conditions.

Note: It is important to recognize that, whether a refrigerant is toxic or flammable, the risk of leakage into the automobile compartment is very, very minimal. The great thing about DURACOOL 12a® is that the product provides for a built-in safety feature that ensures IMMEDIATE notification to the driver and the driver's family when there is a leak. This safety feature is the addition of 'mercaptan' and this feature is not available with 134a. Overall, the safety aspects of the DURACOOL® Refrigerants by far outweigh those of the toxic alternatives available today.
 
The great thing about DURACOOL 12a® is that the product provides for a built-in safety feature that ensures IMMEDIATE notification to the driver and the driver's family when there is a leak. This safety feature is the addition of 'mercaptan' and this feature is not available with 134a.

So... It would smell like someone farted in the car if it was leaking....

In other words, it would smell normal.
 
Problem is when R12 burns it makes phosgene gas which will put you down fast. It would have to be in a confined space like the trunk maybe. Of course if everything is burning and you are stuck in the trunk I would say the 15 gallons of gasoline under or over if upside down would be a bigger problem.
 
My favorite courses in College were Statistics. I always go with the odds.
Much ado about nothing.

FLAMMABILITY

Is DURACOOL® flammable?
Like all hydrocarbons, DURACOOL® is flammable, and must be handled accordingly. Practically all lubricants, additives and oils used in the engine of a car are flammable. Gasoline is flammable. Hair spray, deodorant and whipped cream aerosol propellants are flammable. All must be transported, handled and utilized (or installed) using safe practices and following instructions where possible.

Have there been studies to determine the potential level of incidence, in terms of ignited automobile compartment leakage?
Internationally respected risk assessors Arthur D. Little, in a detailed UK-based study, estimated the risk of an ignited refrigerant leak in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle as being in the area of 3 in 10 million. Their findings, from a local perspective, mean that if every car in the USA (some 50 to 60 million vehicles) were to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant such an accident might occur once in every 50 years.

What would the impact of and "incident level, once every 50 years" ignited automobile compartment leakage actually be?
In terms of the "impact", it is important to recognize that automobiles generally have 12-15 ounces of DURACOOL® refrigerant. If there were a full amount leak into an automobile compartment and it ignited, it would theoretically create a "flash" which would last 1-1.5 seconds.

There are eminent Risk Assessment Reports available which document the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerants in motor vehicle air conditioning systems.

What is the difference between regular propane and the refrigerant propane that is used to manufacture the DURACOOL® products?
The propane that is regularly used for barbecues, and general consumer or commercial use is a by product of the hydrocarbon manufacturing process (the production and refining of raw oil products). The propane used for standard applications (such as your home barbecue). In order to utilize the product as "refrigerant grade" the product is further refined to render out methane gases and other impurities. This refrigerant propane is different in many ways, most notably is the disparity in the auto ignition. Essentially this refining makes the product safer and more stable. The Auto ignition for regular grade propane is 842 F, while the DURACOOL® product's auto ignition is 1635 F.

Why does DURACOOL® have the scent of propane?
The additive "ethyl mercaptin" is actually a stenching agent that is added for safety reasons. Mercaptan, as it is commonly known, is added to natural gas, propane, butane and virtually all gases as an agent that will alert the user to any leakage. The addition of mercapan should be viewed as a safety feature (see below). Mercaptan is also condensable in the AC system and cannot limit performance in any way and will not negatively impact components. The mercaptan smell is not detectable under regular working conditions or under normal install conditions.

Note: It is important to recognize that, whether a refrigerant is toxic or flammable, the risk of leakage into the automobile compartment is very, very minimal. The great thing about DURACOOL 12a® is that the product provides for a built-in safety feature that ensures IMMEDIATE notification to the driver and the driver's family when there is a leak. This safety feature is the addition of 'mercaptan' and this feature is not available with 134a. Overall, the safety aspects of the DURACOOL® Refrigerants by far outweigh those of the toxic alternatives available today.

You know I did have faith that you had done your research... but so many others don't. The biggest liability IMO would be if some dummy took it to a shop for service without telling them or the correct adapters or labeling in place and lots of shops do not use identifiers before servicing. The only tragedies I have ever heard about involved a recovery machine exploding.

As R134a goes out of production in 5ish years... I wonder how many of these alternatives will still be produced. I admit it will be difficult to get the same performance from R134a on some retrofits... but I'm willing to start there due to cost and ease of service right now.
 
In the 70's, my company completely converted their huge refrigerated trailer fleet over to liquid nitrogen. No diesel powered reefer units using refrigerant.
Worked well, simply, and cheaply. The downside was storage. Back to conventional reefers...
 
Who was responsible for charging/filling before the trailer left out?
Two silos with filling stations were erected at the warehouse which required daily deliveries from Linde.
As each trailer returned to the warehouse after delivering their load, the drivers would park them on the pad by the filling stations where they were then filled by the yardman in addition to the million moves called out from the warehouse over the radio he had to do.
It sucked for the yardman.
(AMHIK).
 
I was going to say that would never work with today's drivers. When I worked for a bucket company you would not believe how many of those idiots would run out of fuel before they would put $20 in the tank which they got back immediately when slip turned in and no they were not hourly, sitting on the side of the road waiting for the company service truck getting paid nothing so you know the brain dead in trucks now would be spoiling whole truck loads of food, wtf.
 
Back to the subject, I took the car to the shop today. They found one bad O ring and replaced it. Did a vacuum pressure test and it held for 20 minutes, therefore, they think it will be fine with another charge. Problem: they ran out! Need to take it back tomorrow; the owner has more R-12 at his house.

My friend was wrong on the price however.... :BangHead:
 
It works!! The cost was steep, $507.00 for the Freon, but it was nice driving today and feeling cool air as I sat at the stop lights! Yay! Here's hoping it lasts for another 13 years!
 
Last edited:
I'm jealous... I spent part of my day getting a new compressor and all the joy that goes with it... we will be close on final bills though.
 
Yes, I probably could have done the swap for just a little more, but I thunk it would sill have been under repair. As said, they found a bad O ring, otherwise, it was just a matter of refilling.
 
Yes, I probably could have done the swap for just a little more, but I thunk it would sill have been under repair. As said, they found a bad O ring, otherwise, it was just a matter of refilling.
You did ok... and it cools now.
 
It works!! The cost was steep, $507.00 for the Freon, but it was nice driving today and feeling cool air as I sat at the stop lights! Yay! Here's hoping it lasts for another 13 years!
How much per pound for the R-12? Was the 507.00 for the whole bill
 
Where did you source yours from?
O really ap. they were as good as rock auto once shipping factored in and they had it all in stock... across town of course. I figured it better this way if I have warranty service required, and since RV2's and clutches seem to be reman only... I expect to need that service.

I hate to admit that I like their product selection more than some of the other big store chains... I really need to find a good small place that I like... but they would have to do something about their hours to match my schedule. Several that I tried years back went out of business.
 
O'Reilly just recently came to Fumbuck County.
I finally don't have to torture myself at AZ and AAP.
Their help is as stupid as the others but selection, availability, and price is better.
 
How much per pound for the R-12? Was the 507.00 for the whole bill
No. Their service charge, labor and any repairs - replacing the O ring - was $142.00. The R-12 was $200 a pound, and it took 2.3 pounds. Yikes! However, that is what I had been estimated.

I could have gone to Sacramento and bought some of those cars that someone listed here for $25 each, but that would have taken more time and days. It's done now, and as I said, perhaps for the last time with me as the owner of this car. Same with converting it; would have taken more time and parts. It's working now and, for those that might care (I'm not one), it's still original style. hat's what one of the techs said at the shop.
 
Back
Top