360 or 440?

[monaco75]

Yea, shumacher is the only place with the conversion motor mounts.

Here they are-
http://www.engine-swaps.com/Pages/ProductsYear/73UP.html

I spoke with them via email a few times... The 440 will bolt in to the small block factory mounts, however the engine will sit an inch forward, and cockeyed. Which will bind up the motor mounts, and tranny mount. The kit from shumacher will put the big block in the correct factory location.

A member on the bluesmobile forum tried to bolt a 440 in to his small block car, and confirmed the above. The motor came back out, and is waiting for the new conversion mounts.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

The 911 spring is a good hydraulic cam spring I have a set in a 440 with 292/509 cam the only thing I wasn't crazy about was they seemed to big for retainers but mp retainers held them centered nicely, the call answerer at comp told me use the titanium retainer, so much for budget. Hughes engines has a good hydraulic cam spring and last I looked it was still cheap and I've got almost 8000 mi on mine no issues stock retainers I think the # is 1105 if you call or go on web.

 

[josehf34]

Stick with 360 I am definatley a BB guy mainly because SB heads suck from about 72 till late eighties. If your not building for max power the heads will not hurt to bad. If you had a BB right there and trans and all the extras sure what the hell, but you will be way ahead to work what you have 4 bbl and a good intake, SB in c body put some headers on if still not enough change heads, cam, trans

Can a 360 be build to get the same or pretty equal low rpm torque and power like a 440 without having rough idle, horrible mpg and without stroking it? if the answer is "yes", please share the recipe

 

[commando1]

I don't think you can because you're defying the 1st Law of Physics, There is no substitute fo cu. inches.

Posted via Topify on Android

 

[josehf34]

I don't think you can because you're defying the 1st Law of Physics, There is no substitute fo cu. inches.

Posted via Topify on Android

it was just a little forgotten

But I'm a bit curious about why some users recommend to keep going with the 360 and do some mods to it :thinker:

 

[70bigblockdodge]

In reality your 80 inches down, but 360 has a 3.58 stroke compared to 3.75 in the 440, the 360 rod is shorter so good torque can be had from 360, sure a bigger engine will make more power at a lower rpm biut since you have to go find a 440 and then get it in the car its a lot of work for 80 cubes 50hp and maybe 70-80 foot pounds. We also don't mess with these cars cause they are easy for that you can go to dealer, so if you want a BB put a BB in, but you will be further $ and time with 360.

 

[josehf34]

In reality your 80 inches down, but 360 has a 3.58 stroke compared to 3.75 in the 440, the 360 rod is shorter so good torque can be had from 360, sure a bigger engine will make more power at a lower rpm biut since you have to go find a 440 and then get it in the car its a lot of work for 80 cubes 50hp and maybe 70-80 foot pounds. We also don't mess with these cars cause they are easy for that you can go to dealer, so if you want a BB put a BB in, but you will be further $ and time with 360.

This extra costs are making me doubt about the swap because maybe with the saved money I can do other stuff that the car requires and I thought that switching to a big block would not require many changes. Let me be a bit annoying with the follow question: Right now this is my 360 setup:

-Block bored over 0.020"
-Carter AFB 625
-Dual plane intake manifold
-Stock camshaft (originally was a 2bbl, but I swapped to 4bbl without swaping camshaft)
-Stock low compression pistons

So what Can I do to improve more power at low RPM? I was thinking about change the carter AFB to a thermoquad and the intake for a edelbrock rpm performer or maybe even a stroker setup with the actual bore size, but I've always heard that a stroked engine has a shorter life and easily can broke the block so I'm afraid about this possibility

 

[monaco75]

Can do a bunch of things. Start with the exhaust, and go from there... A gear change sounds like the best option for you.

I think you said you had 2.76 gears? Throw some 3.55s in there for around town driving.

 

[josehf34]

Can do a bunch of things. Start with the exhaust, and go from there... A gear change sounds like the best option for you.

I think you said you had 2.76 gears? Throw some 3.55s in there for around town driving.

But, 3.55s doesn't sounds a big high for this boat? What about 3.27?

About the exhaust, I want to put headers, them looks beautiful and I've always read that them help a bit with torque and MPG. I know that headers produces leaks but I can be fine with a small exhaust leak but only if is little

This weekend I'm going to confirm what gear ratio I have

 

[70bigblockdodge]

A quick list of stuff you need to change

1. 440
2. BB 727 trans
3. converter that matches 440 balance/no balance
4 exhaust and manifolds/headers nothing crosses over
5 all the BB brackets p.s.,alt, a/c
6. dist
7. probably fan or fan shroud
8. radiator if older than 72 BB or switch to later water pump housing and radiator still might not work
9. wiring although this is not a buy/cost thing it will still not drop in
10. the mounts

I sure I'm forgetting something but you get idea if you have a parts car it would simplify things or someone with a stash of all this stuff. If you where talking a 318 to 440 okay but a 360 not a bad engine for a big car. I'm probably one of the worst people to ask about this but I will try, my first best guess that cones to mind is a stock 340 cam, will run pwr brake has a decent idle and just plain works I really don't venture away from Mopar Performance very often and have not been overjoyed when I have. Comp, Crower, Lunati I'm sure all have something in this area(duration/lift) and sure the magazines mad 3 more horsepower with the co. with the biggest ad but you, I, we are not heads up racing so who gives a crap about 3-4 hp, ma mopar rules even if she is sporting a Italian accent these days. My next move would be headers I know a lot of guys here don't like them but unless you are paying big bucks for 340 exh manifolds the rest of the sb exhaust manifolds suck sorry but that's the way it is. I have heard that some magnum manifolds aren't bad but I know nothing about this, your on your own there. Next after that is converter if tourque is higher rpm than 440 you need to get there quicker, something in the 2200 range I'm sure your stock one is like 1800 so a improvement for sure don't go too high or milage and trans life may suffer with stock rear gears and 15 inch wheels that will keep your hwy rpm above stall (less heat) before this your tune should be 32 degrees btdc at 3000+ rpm, this should put you about 10-12 at idle which will still work with stock or 340 cam. Also before converter there is always od trans and rear gear swap to consider. good luck hope this helps.

 

[josehf34]

A quick list of stuff you need to change

1. 440
2. BB 727 trans
3. converter that matches 440 balance/no balance
4 exhaust and manifolds/headers nothing crosses over
5 all the BB brackets p.s.,alt, a/c
6. dist
7. probably fan or fan shroud
8. radiator if older than 72 BB or switch to later water pump housing and radiator still might not work
9. wiring although this is not a buy/cost thing it will still not drop in
10. the mounts

I sure I'm forgetting something but you get idea if you have a parts car it would simplify things or someone with a stash of all this stuff. If you where talking a 318 to 440 okay but a 360 not a bad engine for a big car. I'm probably one of the worst people to ask about this but I will try, my first best guess that cones to mind is a stock 340 cam, will run pwr brake has a decent idle and just plain works I really don't venture away from Mopar Performance very often and have not been overjoyed when I have. Comp, Crower, Lunati I'm sure all have something in this area(duration/lift) and sure the magazines mad 3 more horsepower with the co. with the biggest ad but you, I, we are not heads up racing so who gives a crap about 3-4 hp, ma mopar rules even if she is sporting a Italian accent these days. My next move would be headers I know a lot of guys here don't like them but unless you are paying big bucks for 340 exh manifolds the rest of the sb exhaust manifolds suck sorry but that's the way it is. I have heard that some magnum manifolds aren't bad but I know nothing about this, your on your own there. Next after that is converter if tourque is higher rpm than 440 you need to get there quicker, something in the 2200 range I'm sure your stock one is like 1800 so a improvement for sure don't go too high or milage and trans life may suffer with stock rear gears and 15 inch wheels that will keep your hwy rpm above stall (less heat) before this your tune should be 32 degrees btdc at 3000+ rpm, this should put you about 10-12 at idle which will still work with stock or 340 cam. Also before converter there is always od trans and rear gear swap to consider. good luck hope this helps.

Sure, any opinion will help!

The OD tranny swap is 100% confirmed, I'm going to put an A518 with lockup behind the engine and the converter I guess stall 2200 RPM will be fine with the 360 (or stroked).

I want to thank for all the help I've received at this moment with the 440 set up, but I want to read some opinions for a possible 360 build, something like heads, camshaft, pistons etc, even a stroker set up with a bore of 4.02" (only if engine and block life doesn't get hurt). The final cost will determine if the 360 remains in the car or if I make the swap.

 

[70NPORT]

I don't think you can because you're defying the 1st Law of Physics, There is no substitute fo cu. inches.

Posted via Topify on Android

Bingo..........

 

[polara71]

Bingo..........

Says the guy who never tried it

 

[70NPORT]

Says the guy who never tried it

Don't need to. Somethings are just obvious.

 

[commando1]

Please answer this:
1. A 1.3 litre V-DOHC turbo-supercharged producing 260 hp
2. A 195 hp, smog-era 440.

Now go at it with both engines. Who's going to be the ULTIMATE winner.
The 1.3 will self destruct into a world of shrapnel at 400 hp and the 440 will just be waking up.

So let's say you're satisfied with 350 hp. Either one of them will do.
Which one do you want sitting in an Imperial?

 

[70NPORT]

Which one do you want sitting in an Imperial?

The only proper motivation is obvious (hint: has eight cylinders).

 

[Moparhead]

The 360 on its own is a torquey 'little' motor, has no problem motivating a variety of 3400lb muscle cars as well as trucks. With the usual enhancements you can bump power and gain some mpgs. That said, if you are really into cubes, then why not stroke the 360? You gain cubes without the increased weight of a 440. There are several good kits out there that will get you well into the 400 cube range. Just a thought.

 

[commando1]

You can stroke a 440 more than you can stroke a 360 to. That's my point.
Ultimately, a 360 can never be better than a 440.

 

[Ripinator]

Hi guys.

Now I have the chance to buy a recently rebuilt 440 for 650 bucks plus crate and shipping (something like 500 bucks extra), the engine has a 0.02" bored over block, stock camshaft, stock pistons, stock heads, stock 4bbl iron intake manifold and only 200 miles on it since rebuilt. But I'm not 100% sure if the swap worth the extra expense.

My 360 is recently rebuilt too, has aluminum intake, HEI ignition system and a 4BBL 625 CFM Carter AFB and 300 miles on it but sometimes, I wish to have "more power", not a racing car but just more power especially at low revs. I was thinking in upgrade heads on my 360, raise up the compression to 10.6:1 and install headers but now I have the chance to own this Big Block. If I own this Big Block I would put a 800 CFM thermoquad on it, headers, HEI ignition system, edelbrock performer RPM aluminum intake, aluminum water pump, raise up compression to 10.6:1 and maybe aluminum heads to make it lighter and the 360 will be stored for other project. Regardless of what engine I choose, I'm going to swap my TF727 to a lock up A518.

But here's the big deal on this decision: The engine will be on my daily driver so MPG in town and highway is important. I've read in some forums that the 360 must work harder to move my land yacht so will use more fuel than the 440 (especially in a city with hills like where I live). Take in count that I can be very happy with almost 12MPG in town and 14 -15 in Highway

So what do the experts think? worth the extra expense the Big Block? if worth the extra expense, what kind of MPG town/highway should I expect with this 440, A518 and driving like a old man (Yes, I drive slow in town but I love to feel that torque just pushing a bit the throttle)?

I just finished reading all the postings to this thread; therfore, I have come to the opinion that your heart is set on a big block car. So, my recommendation is that you wash, wax and clean that car to within a micron of its bare sheet metal. Then put an ad on CraigsList and sell it. Finally, invest the proceeds in another C-Body that already has a big block in it. This action will put you way ahead of any of the other alternatives previously discussed.

 

[josehf34]

I just finished reading all the postings to this thread; therfore, I have come to the opinion that your heart is set on a big block car. So, my recommendation is that you wash, wax and clean that car to within a micron of its bare sheet metal. Then put an ad on CraigsList and sell it. Finally, invest the proceeds in another C-Body that already has a big block in it. This action will put you way ahead of any of the other alternatives previously discussed.

Yes, My heart is focused on the 440 but I can't sell the fury, mainly because I don't live in the US and here a big block mopar is more strange than a dog with five legs and the second reason is because the car has a special place on my life so the posibility of sell it is about of 0% and -10%

The 360 on its own is a torquey 'little' motor, has no problem motivating a variety of 3400lb muscle cars as well as trucks. With the usual enhancements you can bump power and gain some mpgs. That said, if you are really into cubes, then why not stroke the 360? You gain cubes without the increased weight of a 440. There are several good kits out there that will get you well into the 400 cube range. Just a thought.

The 360 stroker is a good posibility but must be done with the bore size of 4.02" because I spent 400 bucks rebuilding the cylinders bore when the block was on the machine shop while the rebuilding. I don't have any experience with stroker engines and I had read some statements that appear to be myths, these are some:

-stroker engine will not last long than a non stroker engine
-stroker engine can easily crack the block
-stroker engine always has rough idle
-stroker engine works hotter than non-stroker
-stroker engine can only be build to high rpm applications

Can the 408 Stroker can be build with 4.02" bore?