67 Fury 440 Engine Problems

[Ripinator]

Hi all, It has been about a month or a little bit more since my last update. As of right now and I am trying not to jinx it here, the engine looks like it can be saved! In my last post I messed up and got my information a bit wrong, I originally said it was the 3rd and 7th pistons that were scuffed, IT IS ACTUALLY the 5TH and 7th pistons. Anyway here is the latest....

We Found The Problem! It is as we originally thought, the problem is in-fact the cylinders and NOT the pistons. Another friend of ours named Rich looked at the pistons and he said that the scuffs on the 5th and 7th would not make the car run like it is. So he gave us a measuring tool to borrow to measure the inside of the cylinders.

Yesterday Sunday Feb 23rd- The cylinders were measured, then the pistons were measured for comparison. The cylinder measures at 2,000 difference, and the cylinder measures smaller than the piston so it's a bit tight. It is supposed to measure within 4-5,000

So What Is Next?- Take the crank out and hone the cylinders alittle bit.

Here are some pictures of the engine out of the carView attachment 355747 View attachment 355748 View attachment 355749 View attachment 355750 View attachment 355751

You can continue to mess around with this engine the way you have, but if I was you, I would take the block, crank and pistons to a competent machinist and ask him to figure it all out and fix it.

 

[Kram Edyorloh]

If they are forged pistons they have a bigger clearance gap than cast or hyper.
Just joined today and read this, its sounds like it needed more air gap/points gap or a bit of advance putting into it. Same symptoms.
While you are doing it just check inside the cap and see if there is 'owt up.
Lovely car, 2dr post,nice

 

[jcslocum]

We Found The Problem! It is as we originally thought, the problem is in-fact the cylinders and NOT the pistons. Another friend of ours named Rich looked at the pistons and he said that the scuffs on the 5th and 7th would not make the car run like it is. So he gave us a measuring tool to borrow to measure the inside of the cylinders.

How does one assemble an engine with a piston that is oversized?

Setting up a bore gauge and using it to get good numbers is't real easy. I would like to see what you used to set it up and make these measurements.

 

[Ripinator]

How does one assemble an engine with a piston that is oversized?

Setting up a bore gauge and using it to get good numbers is't real easy. I would like to see what you used to set it up and make these measurements.

Definitely agree. Please see Post #41 above. . .

 

[jcslocum]

I don't agree that it should be taken to a machine shop right away. It's good to know the root cause (if at all possible) for the issue before spending more $$. An educated position is better than "tell me what's wrong" position. The OP has access to a bore gauge and maybe just didn't get it setup perfectly for this job.

I have a spreadsheet for doing this work and can set it up for your bore size if needed. It takes away the math that needs to be done.

 

[Ripinator]

I don't agree that it should be taken to a machine shop right away. It's good to know the root cause (if at all possible) for the issue before spending more $$. An educated position is better than "tell me what's wrong" position. The OP has access to a bore gauge and maybe just didn't get it setup perfectly for this job.

I have a spreadsheet for doing this work and can set it up for your bore size if needed. It takes away the math that needs to be done.

I generally agree with what yer saying here. But from what I gather from the OP's posts, it appears that no one who has a clue has been involved with his engine - especially with its assembly - Hence my machine shop suggestion. . .

 

[SportFury70]

This is what was used to measure the inside of the cylinders. Borrowed from a friend.

This was also used. Used to measure the pistons

 

[jcslocum]

Neither of these tools are what I consider to be the best for bore and piston measurements. The Starrett inside micrometer I haven’t used but isn’t going to be easy to use for this purpose. A dedicated dial bore gauge is so much easier to use.
The calipers are also not as good as a standard micrometer for measuring the OD of the piston.

You are trying to measure to really small numbers and these tools I don’t believe will give the accuracy or resolution you need. i would not trust the numbers you have in hand.

 

[SportFury70]

Update Sunday 3/16/2020-

Measured the pistons from top to bottom

Once with this below......

Starting Numbers......

Final Numbers.....

But Wait There's More...... Sprang for one of these from Harbor Freight. You put it in the cylinder, it bounces to the edge and you twist it so it locks, you take it out and you have your measurement.

With this tool, here is what we have......

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Inside mics are fine to use if you know how to use them right (get the 'feel')
Telescoping gauges are good too but take some 'feel' (rock'it)
6 measurements for each hole, a good chart is necessary to keep track.
I can't really make hide nor hare on what you got on your chart.
Dial bore gauge is a quick & easy way to find taper.

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

You put it in the cylinder, it bounces to the edge and you twist it so it locks, you take it out and you have your measurement.

Just make sure you don't have it crooked (Crooked definition is - not straight.)
Same with any mic's rock'it and get the feel.

 

[SportFury70]

Just make sure you don't have it crooked (Crooked definition is - not straight.)
Same with any mic's rock'it and get the feel.

We put it in the cylinder, if it did not pop out we moved it and made sure it did to get the measurements.

 

[jcslocum]

I have plugged your cylinder numbers into my worksheet and a sample is below

I assumed a 0.020 overbore. Your numbers are very close except where they are a negative. I will have to assume that these neg numbers are measuring errors and that you bores are not tapered at the bottom. This may take some time to learn to finesse these tools. You are making measurements at about 0.001 and even 2 pros will get 2 different numbers when measuring.

I'm trying to look at the pistons now.

 

[jcslocum]

I need some help with this info.

There are 2 numbers and it looks like a top number and bottom number?? 4.297" and 4.344" ?

Can you show me where these measurements were taken or what they mean? 4.344" is a decent number as it's 0.004 smaller than the bore, in most cases.

 

[3175375]

I need some help with this info.

There are 2 numbers and it looks like a top number and bottom number?? 4.297" and 4.344" ?

View attachment 361721

Can you show me where these measurements were taken or what they mean? 4.344" is a decent number as it's 0.004 smaller than the bore, in most cases.

Looks like ‘top’ & ‘skirt’ are written on the left side of the paper where those numbers are written...

 

[SportFury70]

Looks like ‘top’ & ‘skirt’ are written on the left side of the paper where those numbers are written...

You are correct

 

[jcslocum]

This number at the top are way off the bottom. Can you remeasure 1 piston right at the top edge. Right above the ring?

 

[SportFury70]

Hi Everyone,

Sorry that it has been quite awhile since my last update on the Fury 440 stroker engine shitshow. The latest on the engine is that all the cylinders were honed out to 3,000ths of an inch each, the inside the cylinders were oiled all the way around, and the pistons now move smoother. So that to me is a good sign. The engine block was repainted orange and is now back in the car. Bottom engine work is done or is mostly done, water pump, rockers and I believe a few other things are now on as well. Just need header and intake gaskets. HOPEFULLY what we did helps.

 

[SportFury70]

All painted......again.

 

[SportFury70]

The engine is back in the car.......