Another Rebuild

Fratzog

Old Man with a Hat
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Five years later another rebuild for the 440 in the Monaco. I was never completely satisfied since the motor was noisy from the get go. In the last few years it was using an increasing amount of oil. Because of this I lost faith in the original builder. My concern was validated when the new shop tore it down. Aside from evidence of massive oil consumption they found that 4 of the pistons had been installed reversed. Never knew that was possible but apparently the old time hot rodders used to do that to get more power since they didn't care about the noise. I pretty sure this was a mistake though since the wrong geometry was causing piston slap hence the noise. A couple of the KB pistons were badly scuffed. Shop suggested the pistons are known for letting oil by so we will likely go with forged pistons. We will likely keep the adjustable Pro Magnum rockers. The so called "reconditioned" heads the previous builder used had knurled valve guides which wore quickly and contributed to the oil consumption problem. We will be using bronze inserts this time. We are going with a quiet mild cam with good low end grunt Comp Cam #21-215-4. Here's a few pics and I'll try to post updates periodically.

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Cast Crank.jpg
Block.jpg

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I'm confused, how can a piston be installed in the reverse position without being pounded by the valves which would no longer line up with the relief cut into the top of the piston?
 
I'm confused, how can a piston be installed in the reverse position without being pounded by the valves which would no longer line up with the relief cut into the top of the piston?
I didn't know it either but they apparently fit although there is an issue with the angle of the rod. Somebody on the board way smarter than me will have to explain it. Here is one discussion on the topic.

http://forums.hotrod.com/mopar-muscle-magazine/70/9539756/mopar-engines/piston-orientation/
 
I'm confused, how can a piston be installed in the reverse position without being pounded by the valves which would no longer line up with the relief cut into the top of the piston?
From what I can see in the pictures every second piston is in the wrong side of the block, if you look at the large cutout reliefs, you will note that they are all towards the front which is wrong.
When you look at the heads themselves you will note that each intake (large valve), is directly opposite each other in pairs. The pistons were fitted wrong.
 
You might want to consider a set of 440Source Stealth heads and have the engine machined for zero deck to take advantage of quench with a closed chamber head.

That and a 4.250" stroker kit... 600+ ft/lbs on regular gas is habit forming...

If your new builder does those iron heads "right" they are going to cost almost as much as new aluminum which will tolerate todays gas with yesterday's compression much better. The added flow is gravy.

Kevin
 
Hey Fred do the bores require anything more than a clean-up hone?
Iron heads work great and I have yet to spend more to rebuild a set for a cruiser than a set of aluminums...
 
The valve arrangement is what dictates the "in right" or "in wrong". You're lucky. A friend at a shop did that on a customer's engine and things hit after about 100 miles - trashing a head and the pistons. In your case, the pistons were not close enough to anything to hit. In regard to those pistons being noisy or passing oil - if they were installed in the right size bore, they would not have been noisy or had oil control issues. Regardless of the position. What killed that engine was the builder and his choices. Hypers would work just fine again - but they are designed to have very tight piston to wall clearances as compared to most forged pistons. So the guy boring and honing has to know what pistons are going in in order to size the bore properly and give the right piston to wall clearance.
I agree - no reason to use aluminum heads unless the buyer wants them - and remember any aftermarket head will need attention before it's really 100% ready to bolt on - regardless of what you paid or what you think.
 
A friend at a shop did that on a customer's engine and
I can NOT see how that can possibly happen if you have enough brain function to at least breath on your own.
That's like putting your shoes on backwards.
 
I'm going to second that the piston scuff is because they were installed with the piston pin offset wrong and quite possibly since it wasn't put together correctly, I would doubt the bore size was correct. The valve notches worked out because you had a low lift cam.

The knurled valve guides kind of blows me away... I didn't know anyone did those anymore. Again... a sign of not doing things right.

Forged pistons? I'll disagree with that. Unless you are planning on upping the compression to 12:1 or something like that, forged pistons are an unnecessary expense. They will also tend to be noisy (piston slap) when the engine is cold and they haven't warmed up to size. I'd look again at the KB pistons. Just be sure your guy knows how to fit them.

Same with the aluminum heads. Yes, they are great for the lower octane gas with the head running cooler, but you also make just a little less power with the head running cooler. It won't make a difference really... The better flow probably won't make a difference in this application either. Weight savings is nice... but this is a C body. It won't know the difference.
 
Those were too loose in the bore, I don't think forged are going to fix that especially when cold. My only suggestion is one piece valves I have been changing these in all of mine as I go, the old 2 piece valves are getting pretty old, see a lot of temperature changes over 40 plus years, and things get messy if the head pops off of the stem, all the modern one piece SS valves have no lip above the seat angle which improves flow at low lifts, so they are a free performance gain for buying reliability,my 2 cents is money well spent even stock rebuilds.
 
Hey Fred do the bores require anything more than a clean-up hone?
Iron heads work great and I have yet to spend more to rebuild a set for a cruiser than a set of aluminums...
Agreed, the car is a cruiser and won't see the track. Don't know yet about the cylinders until he checks the tapers. Will drop by this Friday. They are 452 heads that I plan to reuse them properly reconditioned this time.
 
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Thanks for the input guys. I will be sharing it with the shop particularly the concerns about the pistons. My objective in this build is reliability until I'm too old to keep my licence and enough grunt to occasionally put a smile on my face.
 
Stopped into the shop again today and discussed piston type. The cylinders need 10 thousands and with reusing the sleeved rods a forged piston will be used to match the wrist pins. With his 50 years experience doing this work when installed correctly forged pistons will not have oil consumption issues. The adjustable rockers will let us reuse the push rods. The crank is still in excellent shape. He found a few small things that will be addressed, a broken engine mount and a leaking water pump. Target time line to completion is a few weeks.

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Hey Fred do the bores require anything more than a clean-up hone?
Iron heads work great and I have yet to spend more to rebuild a set for a cruiser than a set of aluminums...
I have a buddy whos dad is a TV repairman and has an awesome set of tools. He'll port and polish your heads for $150.
 
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