WANTED Fury torsion bars

[The Moffittman]

Hi all,

I've got a '73 Fury with a 318 that's overdue for a suspension rebuild. I'd love to find a set of stiffer than stock torsion bars to put in it. I would not love to fork over my hard earned dollars (or rather, so many of them) to FirmFeel, who seem to be the only folks who sell C body bars. I don't have the size of my current bars memorized, but it's a 318 a/c car.. And it wallows like a pig. Yes, it's a C body.. But it wallows like a pig in a waterbed to be more specific.. Chryslers get 47" bars, I know that Plymouths get shorter ones, but I'm sure they're not 41" like are shared with the B/E bodies. Anybody have a set laying around?

Thanks in advance..
Matt

 

[fury fan]

Correct, the shorter Plymouth bars do not interchange with B/E, the Cbody is ~.4" longer, has a larger hex size and I believe the offset is different also between the front and rear hexes. Years ago, before Firmfeel had bars for us, I looked into retrofitting the B/E bar and it is do-able physically, but I have some reservations about the durability.

You would need to make some hex sleeves, around .080" wall IIRC. Could maybe do it with individual pieces, but if any were able to work their way out it might cause bar/socket wear issues. My vision was 6 little pieces, tackwelded to a ~.4" thick washer to hold them together and keep them from coming out.

There is some consideration to be made about adding an additional layer of material in this location, presumably grease would keep everything 'happy' and the suspension pre-load would keep the parts from relative motion. But that is an unknown.

Also, I do not know the offset difference and if there is enough travel in the adjuster bolt to make it work.

FWIW -
Used bars are used and nobody could quantify how 'good' they are to you, unless they are NOS or something. I appreciate the FF T-bars aren't cheap, however if you are going the effort of rebuilding your susp, give long-term consideration to how much those bars cost compared to used ones, over 5-10 years of use. If you can afford it, it might be $$ well spent. With that said, I am a cheapskate, and at my last rebuild I did FF T-bars and swaybar and it was a very good decision (and my car had the thickest bars from the factory already).

 

[Wollfen]

Second hand Torsion bars can be used as long as you give them a good look over for nicks and scratches in the surface of the steel. These are the points at where the metal fatigues and fails. If the bars are good there's no reason they cant be used. Any big block car torsion bars are going to be thicker than what you have now and will stiffen up your suspension. Also, does your car have a front sway bar? Check the bushes on it if you do as that can be a source of a "looser" front end.

 

[kenmdale]

I've got a '73 Fury with a 318 that's overdue for a suspension rebuild. I'd love to find a set of stiffer than stock torsion bars to put in it. I would not love to fork over my hard earned dollars (or rather, so many of them) to FirmFeel, who seem to be the only folks who sell C body bars. I don't have the size of my current bars memorized, but it's a 318 a/c car.. And it wallows like a pig. Yes, it's a C body.. But it wallows like a pig in a waterbed to be more specific.. Chryslers get 47" bars, I know that Plymouths get shorter ones, but I'm sure they're not 41" like are shared with the B/E bodies. Anybody have a set laying around?

Thanks in advance..
Matt[/QUOTE]

I was having a similar problem with my 66 Fury, It got corrected after I tightened up the torsion bars . It turned out there was no spring to them because there was no tension to them. Before I tightened them it felt like you were in a small boat on rough water

Cheers

Ken

 

[fury fan]

A torsion bar is a spring, and like any spring, its remaining spring rate and remaining useful life can't be determined by looking at it. Yes, they can be re-used, but my point was there is not a guarantee a used bar will be any better, even if it's bigger dia. Bars from a bigblock taxi from pothole-filled NYC may be in worse shape than some smaller-dia bars from a low-mileage creampuff.

My 318 Fury came with .99" bars, or whatever the dia was, they were the largest bar available that year, and it did not have HD suspension. So check your car first to see what it has. And yes there may be other issues that you can correct to help your waterbed-pig problem.

 

[The Moffittman]

Hmm.. Let me clarify. I've seen at least ten to fifteen cars being parted out here that were way nicer than the Fury I'm describing. (Stop parting out salvageable cars!). It's got a street sign for a floorboard.. Bondo and rhino lining for a vinyl top, saddle blanket interior, rust holes in the sides the size of your fist, and if it isn't leaking fluids, you need to put more in. That being said, we all know how useful '73 C body front suspensions are.. This one has had bad ball joints since I got it eight years ago.

Point being, I don't expect the car itself to last another five years.. Although I never expected it to last the first year either.. It's got five cylinders with any kind of compression.. It just keeps chugging. Used bars are okey-dokey by me.. I like firmer suspensions, and if I can find a big block set, would like to slap them in. If I didn't have to upload a picture from my computer to put on a web site, so that I could post it on this website to show you all on your computers, I'd show you guys how hilariously bad this thing is.. Remember the LeMons Fury from Roadkill? Mine's blue and doesn't have a donkey on the roof.. Hell, it's still got a ratchet strap holding the motor mount down from two years ago.. Works better than the motor mount did. Man is it fun to blast around in though.. Still pulls down 16mpg highway, too!

 

[fury fan]

That clarifies things a great deal. If you don't know how much longer it will last, you might consider KYB gas-adjust shocks as a crutch. They have a reputation for being a little stiff and harsh, but with softy suspension it should help. It's also not ideal to put a stiff shock with a weak spring (that overworks the shock) but in this case it's justified. And see if there are any bushings you can replace to help things.

I mention that because T-bars can be a real bear to get out if they are the originals, and there is a special tool to help with it that you may not have. The bushings/shocks will be cheaper/easier to accomplish.

And your right - big PITA on posting pictures...

 

[65Fury440]

While were talking torsion bars, my car feels like it compresses more on the left side, when hitting long rolling dips in the road at speed.It causes a bump steer of sorts.

Everything on the suspension/steering is tight. I have brand new KYB gas shocks on the front. I am leaning towards replacing the rear shocks/springs.

It has always been said to me that torsion bars don't lose their spring rate, and if they did they would sag at rest.

I don't know, but seat of the pants feels like the left front has a lower rate than the right side.
Visually, everything looks good, no nicks or cracks in the bars. Haven't looked for the numbers.

Does anyone know if a torsion bar can lose working spring rate but keep static ride height?

 

[The Moffittman]

While were talking torsion bars, my car feels like it compresses more on the left side, when hitting long rolling dips in the road at speed.It causes a bump steer of sorts.

Everything on the suspension/steering is tight. I have brand new KYB gas shocks on the front. I am leaning towards replacing the rear shocks/springs.

It has always been said to me that torsion bars don't lose their spring rate, and if they did they would sag at rest.

I don't know, but seat of the pants feels like the left front has a lower rate than the right side.
Visually, everything looks good, no nicks or cracks in the bars. Haven't looked for the numbers.

Does anyone know if a torsion bar can lose working spring rate but keep static ride height?

Not to be insensitive.. But, how much do you weigh? I'm 6'6" and 250.. I can feel the left side of my car move more.. It's also the only side of the car with people in it all of the time. More work.

 

[The Moffittman]

Fury Fan, I'm doing the full suspension.. Shocks, bushings, ball joints tie rod ends, and all. The LCAs are coming out. I was a vintage sports car mechanic in a previous life.. I am well equipped. However, you're right.. I don't have the torsion bar puller. But, since I'm pulling the LCAs, the T bars will slide out like goose grease. I can't remember what shocks I got, I wanted Edelbrock IASs, but they don't make them anymore. I probably ended up with the gas-a-justs.. Why polish this turd? I see my cars as modular.. The front end of this will go under my next C body, as this car was built with parts from my previous cars.. It makes the hobby cheaper, and more sentimental.. I am the Indian that uses all of the buffalo!

At any rate, I'm assuming nobody's got a spare set of short C body torsion bars for a big block just laying around.. It'd be great if one of you did, tho..

 

[Polara_500]

I've got a bunch of 'em, but they're all from older stuff and I don't know the cross references.

 

[The Moffittman]

I've got a bunch of 'em, but they're all from older stuff and I don't know the cross references.

If you know the length, and have a set of calipers, that's all we need! The numbers on the end should match except for the last one, but I'm sure you know that. I'll go measure mine tomorrow so there's a comparison, if you're serious..

Matt

 

[65Fury440]

Not to be insensitive.. But, how much do you weigh?

I weigh 265, maybe I can get a quad shock kit for the front and add a leaf to the rear left.

 

[Polara_500]

I haven't measured them and I'm not sure which car gets what lengths. There's a chart on another website, but it of course doesn't mention C's. Pretty sure there's a couple sets from a 65 Polara BB, also at least one from a 72 Fury, maybe even a 69 Runner yet. Really never took the time to mess with them since I didn't need any yet.

 

[Wollfen]

Fury bars are typically 44in in length. I might have a set out of the Big block 70 convertible I stripped. I will let you know tomorrow if you like.

 

[Polara_500]

Well, just went out and poked a bit. Found a set at 41", but it looks like someone may have used them for pry bars so that's all they're good for. There's a set at 44" that are ~ .945 dia in fair shape. I also found one 47" bar, might find another if I dug long enough - Dad sure never threw anything away.

 

[fury fan]

It has always been said to me that torsion bars don't lose their spring rate, and if they did they would sag at rest...

Does anyone know if a torsion bar can lose working spring rate but keep static ride height?

I don't have scientific data, but they are a spring and so theoretical possibility is there. We all know leaf springs and valve springs get weak from use.
If they lose spring rate they'll lose ride height. The issue arises when folks adjust them over the years if there is sag, tweak the DS for a heavier driver, or whenever the car goes in for an alignment, and the front end gets put back at a good height so visually all is well. Then those bars get removed and saved for future use. All that feeds into why I said earlier that used bars are not a known entity for their capacity.

Fury Fan, I'm doing the full suspension.. Shocks, bushings, ball joints tie rod ends, and all. The LCAs are coming out. I was a vintage sports car mechanic in a previous life.. I am well equipped. However, you're right.. I don't have the torsion bar puller. But, since I'm pulling the LCAs, the T bars will slide out like goose grease. I can't remember what shocks I got, I wanted Edelbrock IASs, but they don't make them anymore. I probably ended up with the gas-a-justs.. Why polish this turd? I see my cars as modular.. The front end of this will go under my next C body, as this car was built with parts from my previous cars.. It makes the hobby cheaper, and more sentimental.. I am the Indian that uses all of the buffalo!

At any rate, I'm assuming nobody's got a spare set of short C body torsion bars for a big block just laying around.. It'd be great if one of you did, tho..

OK, you confused me again. 1 post says car is on last legs and needs a little help, now you're re-stating that you're doing a full rebuild on the susp. (and it's OK to confuse me, you have no obligations to me!). So I would ask again, if you plan on keeping this subframe for a future car, why not spend money now for new bars in it? You'll have new bars, of stiffer rate than *any* factory bar, and you'll never have to revisit it again.

And again, I am a cheapskate and don't spend other folks money like it's free. My experience with this is that I've done 15/16" OEM swaybars, PST 1" swaybars, and FF T-bars and swaybars. As the saying goes: 'I know what I did, so I know what I'd do.'

 

[The Moffittman]

Fury Fan,

Didn't mean to confuse you.. Right at the start I mentioned it was overdue for a rebuild. I don't want to spring for the new torsion bars, partially because there's two different lengths for a C-body, and I don't want to be stuck with $400 in bars that don't fit the next car.. I should mention, I don't seek any of these out.. All eight of my current, and my thirty or so prior cars found me.. Deaths in families, field finds, divorces, financial troubles, etc.. People wanted them to go to a good home, and they knew I have an affliction. Also, because I do have eight cars, and I don't have Jay Leno's budget, some corners will inevtitably be cut.. Everything I own gets a full brake rebuild, tune up and oil change straight off the bat, and they all need the brake rebuild. But, I've been scrounging the front end parts for this car for a couple of years now. Tax refund got most of it last year, extra contract got the lower ball joints, etc. At any rate, I'm also scrounging for my other cars as well. The biggest drain is my '64 Dart that somebody pulled the 273 out of and dropped a clapped out 225 into. Finding all of the two year specific parts for an early A body v8 conversion is kind of a bear, but I've got a real cherry '67 318 in the basement, and all of the parts are still cheaper than a slant rebuild. The Dart is in nice shape, I intend to keep it for a while. When I do that conversion, I'll be swapping suspensions with my '63 Valiant which has a posi 8 1/4 to handle the 318, and .93 bars, '73 Dart discs, and a full poly suspension I did last year. The Valiant will get a factory Kelsey Hayes setup I found, and the Dart's 7 1/4 rear, and stock v8 T bars to go behind it's 225.. I'll end up with two sweet little A bodies, but there is much to do..

I digress.. Back to the matter at hand.. My Fury's got 184,xxx miles on it. I'd have to assume that used .98 bars from somebody's collection will still be stiffer than my really used .94 bars. If anything, the .98s would probably be close to my factory spring rate if they were really used. The fury is one of two total beaters I've got. It and my Volvo 145 are rolling parts cars, and relegated to snow duty due to the rust issues. But the Fury didn't see much snow duty this year because as soon as it started sliding, it sounded like the whole front end was coming out from under it.. It's time to fix that. It worked out though, because the Volvo has a limited slip Dana 30 rear with 4.30 gears and a four speed. Donut machine!

Whew, this got long. I like my Fury. It will never be restored, I like the character it's got, I don't want it to be a competent corner carver. I've got my A bodies, and my 81 Volvo wagon with it's ridiculous suspension if I want to go play. I just want my Fury to go for as long as I can make it, ride nice on the highway, keep my wife from getting seasick in town, and still scare puppies and little children.

 

[The Moffittman]

Polara 500,
Thanks for checking. I think I've got 44" .94 bars.. I'd be looking for the .98s that Wollfen might have, or the 1.04s from a '74.. 1.06 were available also, but they might be a bit much

Wollfen,
if you can lay hands to those, and they're .98 bars, I'd be interested in relieving you of them.

Thanks everyone who's responded, and to more who might..

 

[fury fan]

Moffittman -
I've got 3 cars myself so I understand about needing to figure out how to spread the money around. That's usually my #1 thing that blocks my progress.

Somethign to be aware of, and this is not meant as trying to further convince you about FF T-bars, although it does broaden your options:
Rebuilding your subframe for swapping into another car may not be 100% viable as subframes don't all interchange, you might have to transfer suspension subassemblies instead. I believe that the 44" Plymouth bars can be swapped into a 47" car (and vise-versa) if you use the bolt-in rear crossmember that matches the bars. The additional 3" of bar length for the Chry-Do cars is handled by a longer rear socket (hangs further rearward of the crossmember), and I'm 90% sure those have the same bolt locations across the board (for same year of car, that is). They will differ between trans mount style (the rubber block or the thru-bolt) which may be a simple upgrade also, or there may be a big difference between fusey and slabside (maybe bolthole locations are different?).

If getting used bars and tempted by large-dia 47" and a crossmember swap, be aware that for a given diameter a 47" bar will have a lower spring rate than a 44". I do not have data for how much. With used bars you should continue your focus on 44" bars as those could go into a 47" car later on.

I'm just HTH, not trying to beat a dead horse, so just keep it in mind and research the T-bar crossmembers as you see fit.