For Sale This will PISS YOU OFF. 71 Fury GT

[fury fan]

I believe for it to be illegal it has to be done with the intent to defraud , SO for the guy doing for himself it would legally be OK .

Besides what do you think they did when this was new ? Hit hard , they would clip it . Standard body shop repair . Send it down the road legally done .

I'd bet there are no provisions wherein a citizen is allowed to decide if/when it is OK to move a VIN tag from 1 vehicle to another. Moving numbers is simply not permitted. There is some gray area sometimes, like a pickup truck has a tree fall on it and mashes the bed and frame - so you roll another frame/bed under the original cab. But innocently swapping an A/C dash and VIN from your parts car, into your non-A/C resto project, and then titling it as the A/C car's VIN? Illegal.

As for when these cars were new and were being repaired - the body shop sent it down the road legally because it was sheetmetal repair and no VINs would've needed to be swapped. To my understanding, the body stampings aren't really of any specificity to the car's titled identity, those are used to investigate a car's heritage for being stolen (and/or having had its VIN plate swapped). IMO you could cut out and re-weld all the stampings you want, tell the BMV about your antics, and if you hadn't moved the VIN they wouldn't care.

And I'd also bet that if someone had a car, and announced to the BMV that they had swapped a VIN for their own purposes, not to defraud (like the A/C scenario) - I'd bet they'd soon find a State Trooper in their driveway announcing that car was getting a state-issued VIN.

I am not a lawyer, and it's been a long time since I've read any BMV info on this. If I have said anything incorrect I am willing to admit I'm wrong -- if someone can show some documentation to the contrary.

 

[azblackhemi]

So how do you legally change a dash pad?

 

[commando1]

Vin plates and the car it is attached to when trying to register the car:
"Ask me no questions and I tell you no lies"
It's that simple...

 

[azblackhemi]

Vin plates and the car it is attached to when trying to register the car:
"Ask me no questions and I tell you no lies"
It's that simple...

But my question is it legal?

 

[commando1]

But my question is it legal?

Honestly, Chris, I don't give a ratzazz when it comes to the damn Bureaucratic motor vehicle department. They are hostile to the public they serve and have caused me untold headaches due to Civil Service morons.

Would I pop on a VIN from a wrecked car to get my car on the road? Absolutely 100%. I wouldn't do it to sell a car.

Don't confuse me with the scumbag trying to increase the value of a car.

 

[saforwardlook]

I see it as swapping dashpads, not swapping a VIN to another car, which is the real intent - not fraud. And I use the factory rosette rivets to place the original VIN plate on replacement dashpads to avoid any unnecessary questions from an excited DMV crusader. When you talk about swapping clean bodies to replace rusted ones of an original car, then it becomes murkier, but to me the intent is the same - to restore the original car to the newest original condition possible and reusing the original VIN tags and body number stampings. Fortunately for me, I will never have to do this body thing since I have way too many cars to get done that have no such issues, but I would have no issues personally with buying a properly restored original car with a good substitute body shell, but I would never buy a patchwork quilt of welded parts that were needed to restore a heavily rusted original car due to longetivity, structural rigidity and durability issues.

 

[cantflip]

But my question is it legal?

Simply? No, but there is a lot of room for interpretation, agreement and sly hiding of the truth. Much like the ages old debate over clipped cars...
Is your car a 'clip job'?
...there is a question of unmatched VIN numbers on the car. Technically, I had understood that to be the trigger for a state issued VIN and documentation(titles) for both cars being required. I haven't looked for the statue, but it is federal not to alter a VIN.

In the USA the 2006 model year new cars(plus lots of older ones) damaged by Katrina flood waters was the catalyst for some stricter enforcement, but that seems to be wearing off just a little. If it were me, and I had to do it... I wouldn't hesitate, but I would try for the state issued VIN too... be careful of where that puts you for emissions compliance. Would I cut and weld a trunk seal lip to transfer a legal hidden VIN... yabetcha... IF that is what I had to do to stay on the road. Would I buy the car that needed all of that? Not knowingly... and it would be a good deal easier to just do a "tribute" and have the benefit of not worrying about keeping absolutely original has big benefits for those who have a modification bend.

ABOVE ALL... if it wasn't 100% correct and legal in every imaginable way... I would never say a word about it on the internet. Fortunately, I don't have that issue.

 

[66/440]

I agree with cantflip it can be murky. But if you sell the car and do not provide the purchaser a "Statement of Fact" regarding changes that have been made that increase the cars sale ability ( whether that was the intent or not) then you are at risk of legal action by both the purchaser as well as the state and possibly federal government reg's. This happened to a relative of mine. And while the purpose was intent to defraud in this case it is not always so. The prosecutor schooled us in what you can an can not do from the states stand point and it boiled down to being honest with a potential buyer.

City man gets probation in phony classic car case

 

[polara71]

I swapped a dash pad from a car 71 Polara to another 71. This was in the 80's and I was always getting pulled over. They always checked the VIN with the registration and I ALWAYS got questioned. I simply told them the pad was changed, please check the VIN on the door. NOT one officer ever had a problem with that explanation or the different VIN on the dash.

 

[cantflip]

I swapped a dash pad from a car 71 Polara to another 71. This was in the 80's and I was always getting pulled over. They always checked the VIN with the registration and I ALWAYS got questioned. I simply told them the pad was changed, please check the VIN on the door. NOT one officer ever had a problem with that explanation or the different VIN on the dash.

1980's... they would have fun with you now. We occasionally "dispose" of a car at work. Usually the manufacturer has a say in things, but one Honda was company owned and made it to a salvage yard... several years later it cause quite a stink as the dash had been "repurposed" VIN attached.

Car was impound until they did whatever they did to the owner... we had our own little Spanish Inquisition over that one. We have been sending someone to watch them crush ever since.

 

[polara71]

Even at the DMV they didn't care. ... I swapped the dash pads in my brown 71 2 door. I did take off the Fury tag that was in the swapped in pad but never installed the original tag. Again, no one seemed to care

 

[cantflip]

Even at the DMV they didn't care. ... I swapped the dash pads in my brown 71 2 door. I did take off the Fury tag that was in the swapped in pad but never installed the original tag. Again, no one seemed to care

I am guessing you are not parking the car in the street these days... I have heard stories of parking enforcement impounding for the VIN being blocked by an old valet ticket or other paper. Suffice it to say you are open to whatever interpretation the LEO chooses to act on regarding this issue. I don't always have your good fortune when dealing with them.

 

[polara71]

Parking on the street? Stop it! Who does that with their car?

 

[fc7_plumcrazy]

Parking on the street? Stop it! Who does that with their car?

where else should I park my daily driver Imperial when I drive it (except winter)???????

 

[Fury Pursuit]

where else should I park my daily driver Imperial when I drive it (except winter)???????

My garage would be good!

 

[fury fan]

When you talk about swapping clean bodies to replace rusted ones of an original car, then it becomes murkier, but to me the intent is the same - to restore the original car to the newest original condition possible and reusing the original VIN tags and body number stampings.

So you view the shell of the car, where the VINs and stampings are attached, simply as a component to be swapped out in the course of a restoration? (that question could sound inflammatory, but not meant to be).

I suppose I could kinda get that, if you had a completely original car that maybe got squashed by a tree, and you moved 90% of the original car (including VINs) over to the donor shell. But I believe the law would disagree, for you technically moved a VIN.

 

[fury fan]

I remain dubious that 'the law' is up to speed with catching most title/VIN infractions on old cars without a heads-up from a citizen/lawyer or prosecutor.

I bought a 65 many years ago from a buddy and he never titled it, so it was in some other guy's name, an out-of-state title, and the of course it was dated for my purchase -- in different color pen and different handwriting. If that doesn't tug at an officer's shirtsleeve I don't know what would. (I bought several cars from my buddy, he never followed the rules 100% but he wasn't a criminal). Due to OOS title, a policeman has to inspect the car and run the VIN thru the 'puter and sign a special form. No biggie, BTDT.

So the officer is enroute to my house, and as I wait in the driveway I look at the vehicle VIN vs the title - that's when I notice the VIN has several digits hand-stamped and is glued on, with 2 rivet-holes not being used. My first thought is 'WTF did my buddy just sell me' and #2 is 'what do I do about the cop that'll be here any minute???' He'll surely smell a rat.

But no, he verified that the VIN tag digits matched the title, it was too old to be in the system per a call to HQ, and he said *zero* about the funny-looking VIN tag and the mismatched writing on the title. Gave me my signed form and drove off.

Years later I learned that a 65 VIN tag is an oddity (on C-bodies anyway). It's spot-welded on (not easy to notice) but has holes for the rivets, and the first few digits are in fact hand-stamped. Was this officer so experienced that he knew those details, and therefore didn't question what would look fraudulent to anyone with average curiosity? I highly doubt it.

 

[saforwardlook]

So you view the shell of the car, where the VINs and stampings are attached, simply as a component to be swapped out in the course of a restoration? (that question could sound inflammatory, but not meant to be).

I suppose I could kinda get that, if you had a completely original car that maybe got squashed by a tree, and you moved 90% of the original car (including VINs) over to the donor shell. But I believe the law would disagree, for you technically moved a VIN.

I was trying to say that I thought the law would look dimly on this.

Let me just clarify that for me, restoring a rust bucket by making a bunch of welded patches is not something I would want to do - there is nothing so rare and desirable that this would be a necessity for me. I would rather just take a good body shell to start with and recreate the original car if I did want to restore a rust bucket, but the law doesn't seem to have provision for honest restorations of rust buckets so one could end up with a vehicle of structural integrity, so I would just not do it. All I was trying to say is that I personally would have no problem if someone wanted to do a really good, authentic restoration of a rust bucket that results in a sound vehicle - I would welcome it even - but the law would not allow it apparently - which is a shame. To me, a piece of history could be saved the way I was describing and the car would be sound as well - i.e. a proper reflection of how the vehicles really were, not only in appearance but in driving qualities and durability. But again, the law would view it dimly.

I have all the cars I will ever need to restore that have no such issues so I will just proceed with those. I really like the cars I have, but I do not believe they have souls as some do, and they are not the most important things in my life either.

 

[polara71]

where else should I park my daily driver Imperial when I drive it (except winter)???????

To answer your question, a driveway.
Parking a car in parking lots requires parking far far away and quite a bit of walking and always park with one side next to an island

 

[commando1]

It needs to stay on your property where you can use The Stand Your Ground defense.