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How many miles have you put on that car in 20 years Steve?
I realized today that I don’t like my wagon.
- Thread starter Fast Eddie B
- Start date
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
UPDATE:
For the record, battery cables, starter, connections, all new. But I did check and retighten. Only burning non-ethanol 91. Fuel pump new. Blocked off the CCEV hoses.
Did a bunch of hot starts. Up to 3 miuntes, would key start but took a little longer each minute.
I put a bright light down the carb and for a solid 8 minutes there was a slow rising of vapor coming out of the carb. Not enough to dee it rising above the carb, but blow in it, it dispersed then filled back up. No boiling of gas or squirting of gas. After 5 minutes each restart it started like it was flooded.
That tells me.... the bowls leaking into the intake and causing a flooding condition. Given the state of the carb and the quality of the rebuild, I have to assume it is nature of the TQ with the phenolic and aluminum and the carb is just bad.
Seems like I may just have to pick up a new carb.
For the record, battery cables, starter, connections, all new. But I did check and retighten. Only burning non-ethanol 91. Fuel pump new. Blocked off the CCEV hoses.
Did a bunch of hot starts. Up to 3 miuntes, would key start but took a little longer each minute.
I put a bright light down the carb and for a solid 8 minutes there was a slow rising of vapor coming out of the carb. Not enough to dee it rising above the carb, but blow in it, it dispersed then filled back up. No boiling of gas or squirting of gas. After 5 minutes each restart it started like it was flooded.
That tells me.... the bowls leaking into the intake and causing a flooding condition. Given the state of the carb and the quality of the rebuild, I have to assume it is nature of the TQ with the phenolic and aluminum and the carb is just bad.
Seems like I may just have to pick up a new carb.
Glad you finally checked whether vapor was present for a period after shutdown. I would agree that you should either go with an earlier non-lean burn TQ carb that you know runs well or a new Holley or Edelbrock carb that should take care of your issue so you can start enjoying the car again. Your Formal looks like a very nice one so spending a few $$ on it shouldn't hurt that much. Best wishes.............
TxDon
Well-Known Member
If you have been running with this leaking fuel situation for long, change the oil and filter while you are at it - may have a lot of fuel in there.
You know me too well Matt! You must know by now that I love working on these cars and making them like new more than driving them in California traffic. Most of them are too nice to drive much and the Cuda is one of them - I think I have put more miles on the turqouise 71 sunroof Newport that you helped me acquire early this year than the Cuda in 20 years. I also have been driving my triple black 71 Chrysler 300 that I will start restoring in February of 2021. I don't worry too much when driving those two for example since they are both going to be fully restored.
I am just aiming for my cars to go into collections for people to see when I am long gone and folks are mostly all driving EVs and our favored cars will all be sitting in museums or crushed. Ayilar will get first dibbs on the 71 Newport though when I am gone so it might have a different destination.
Perhaps my favorite automobile museum out here in California besides Jay Leno's that I was once able to tour and also have lunch with him and his crew is the Nethercutt Museum not too far from me either in Sylmar, CA - the Peterson is also very nice and such venues are where I am aiming. Most know of the Peterson Museum, but the Nethercutt really intrigues me. Here is a photo of the interior of their museum and it definitely takes one back in time, and I appreciate that it exists and is so well run and cared for by an obviously very wealthy owner.
The Nethercutt Collection
Someones gotta help do it, why not me???!!!
3175375
Senior Member
The Nethercutt museum is fabulous! I took a tour of the museum that you have to make reservations for and saw a performance with the museums orchestrions.
Just the radiator cap collection is amazing!
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
I was thinking the oil would be full of gas... but never occurred to change the oil. Good nudge. Thanks.
took the carb off today and the intake was coated in raw fuel. Ordering an Eddy tonight. I’m going to copy and paste what 78Brougham did with a 1406.
Mid70's Chrysler Fanatic
Well-Known Member
I'm on my third replacement (rebuilt) OEM-style starter I actually didn't mind when the second one quit because it made the car sound like a Ford! (I think that wintertime fuel-system related starting difficulties shortened the life of #2. The first replacement was from Uh-oh Zone) I blamed Chinese rebuilders, but after reading this, next time I'll get a mini starter. I love the old Mopar sound, but I don't mind the sound of the Denso on my Dakota.
Eddie, I'm eager for an update after you install the Eddy.
If/ when I'm in need of a new carb, I'm very tempted to give a street demon a try since it has the plastic bowl like a TQ.
Goes a long way to improving start ups with today's gas. My Edelbrock has heat soak issues that my TQ does not.
Goes a long way to improving start ups with today's gas. My Edelbrock has heat soak issues that my TQ does not.
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Called Edelbrock. They recommended the 1906 as the newer version of the 1406. I got all I need, I just need to be there to install!
I’ll get it installed before Xmas. Next weekend. It will be really weird if it starts starting when I turn the key! Won’t feel right without lots of pedaling and cranking.
I don’t have a problem with gas. I just stay away from ethanol fuel. Seems to be a lot of places now to get non-eth.
3175375
Senior Member
Nice eye candy!
My experience with carburetors is like this:
Edelbrock is to R12
as
Holley is to R-134a
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
Coming from running a swamp cooler, either will be a big improvement.
78Brougham
"Chump"
Keep us posted Eddie! Didn't know they up dated the 1406. What did they do?
3175375
Senior Member
From their website:
features annular flow primary boosters with a new calibration for improved off-idle and cruising performance. The annular flow booster design delivers improved fuel atomization to eliminate flat spots that may be encountered as the carburetor transitions from idle to full throttle. Each annular flow booster features eight equally spaced orifices to improve fuel metering from idle to the main circuit. The improved flow metering makes this carburetor ideal for use with a wide variety of small- and big-block engines with either dual- or single-plane intake manifolds.
That makes it sound like it's a whole lot easier to find the sweet spot for your setup. In my experience they're quite nice OOTB but getting them really sweet takes some doing, I've never had their tuning chart fit my build exactly.
My personal experience with Eddys is that the later ones weren't as responsive as the earlier ones from maybe 10 years ago, possibly from leaning them out over time to help pass smog check emission tests when using them. The usual way in the past to make sure off-idle and low speed accelerations felt strong was to richen up the fuel flow curves beyond what should be theoretically needed and just let the fuel dump into the intake manifold hot spot (due to hot exhaust crossover flow) and let the fuel vaporize well that way and give good throttle response. But some guys also like to block off the crossover without thinking of the other consequences. One way around this is to more finely atomize the fuel when coming out of the venturis of the carburetor so reliance on a hot spot or good fuel delivery from supplying more fuel than the engine really uses well is needed - and that is what better atomization of the fuel in the carburetor venturis achieves. I would definitely welcome the new AVS2 carburetors.
I don't see a bowl vent on the carb you bought, which would have definitely helped any hot fuel from going into the engine but maybe they don't offer one. But hot start fuel vapors from a properly performing carburetor probably shouldn't be an issue unless you lived in a state that has really high summer temperatures like California or Arizona/Nevada - you don't since you live in New York.
Does the AVS2 carb require use of that spacer plate? It seems pretty thick which makes me wonder about fitment issues/hood clearance and carburetor to manifold gasket issues and or throttle geometry issues - but that must have been thought through by Edelbrock I would expect?
Also, that carburetor doesn't utilize the original choke set up of the Chrysler system, so how does it sense heat to control choke control as the engine heats up? My Forwardlook cars utilize that kind of choke set up but they also have a heat pipe from the exhaust manifold transmitting heat to those circular type control units.
One last thought, did you also purchase the adaptor that is needed for an Edelbrock carburetor throttle lever to adapt to a Chrysler throttle cable ? That might be what one of the packages I see in your photo contains - just checking of things to think of before you start the install so you don't get frustrated.
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3175375
Senior Member
The carb has an electric choke.My personal experience with Eddys is that the later ones weren't as responsive as the earlier ones from maybe 10 years ago, possibly from leaning them out over time to help pass smog check emission tests when using them. The usual way in the past to make sure off-idle and low speed accelerations felt strong was to richen up the fuel flow curves beyond what should be theoretically needed and just let the fuel dump into the intake manifold hot spot (due to hot exhaust crossover flow) and let the fuel vaporize well that way and give good throttle response. But some guys also like to block off the crossover without thinking of the other consequences. One way around this is to more finely atomize the fuel when coming out of the venturis of the carburetor so reliance on a hot spot or good fuel delivery from supplying more fuel than the engine really uses well is needed - and that is what better atomization of the fuel in the carburetor venturis achieves. I would definitely welcome the new AVS2 carburetors.
I don't see a bowl vent on the carb you bought, which would have definitely helped any hot fuel from going into the engine but maybe they don't offer one. But hot start fuel vapors from a properly performing carburetor probably shouldn't be an issue unless you lived in a state that has really high summer temperatures like California or Arizona/Nevada - you don't since you live in New York.
Does the AVS2 carb require use of that spacer plate? It seems pretty thick which makes me wonder about fitment issues/hood clearance and carburetor to manifold gasket issues and or throttle geometry issues - but that must have been thought through by Edelbrock I would expect?
Also, that carburetor doesn't utilize the original choke set up of the Chrysler system, so how does it sense heat to control choke control as the engine heats up? My Forwardlook cars utilize that kind of choke set up but they also have a heat pipe from the exhaust manifold transmitting heat to those circular type control units.
One last thought, did you also purchase the adaptor that is needed for an Edelbrock carburetor throttle lever to adapt to a Chrysler throttle cable ? That might be what one of the packages I see in your photo contains - just checking of things to think of before you start the install so you don't get frustrated.
Mid70's Chrysler Fanatic
Well-Known Member
My wagon is a teetotaler, too!
Iowa and Nebraska are big into ethanol. However, we can still get nonalcoholic gas here, which is the only kind they sell with high enough octane.
@saforwardlook Steve you have provided some good info to this thread, thank you.
@Fast Eddie B looking forward to seeing your carb issues resolved...wagons are meant to be fun!
@Fast Eddie B looking forward to seeing your carb issues resolved...wagons are meant to be fun!
Fast Eddie B
Well-Known Member
The spacer is a beast. I has the rear flared out to match the opening from the TQ. I am expecting it will fit under there with the stock air cleaner, otherwise, we will be going with a low rise aftermarket air cleaner. Electric choke looks simple enough. I have put them on other cars.
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