68 fury terrible brakes

Craig@mobileparts will have what you need and be able to answer questions you may have. He carries the older asbestos brake shoes our cars need. He will also have all the related components too. All quality older stock, not the Chinesium crap that is all over the internet. A lot of us here have used him for parts, he sells good stuff. A solid guy to deal with.
 
I popped the front left drum off. it spins nice and the grease and bearing looked fine. the left shoe has a fresh stain on it and it appears to be fluid. seems to be in a certain spot on the hub and on the shoe. not sure if it leaked down while it sat these past few years or not. i'll replace the brake cylindar and line. The rubber line has a nice split in it. Very old. the seal in the back of the drum is sketchy. i'll replace all the seals and the bearing. Just to be sure.

The front drums are 11" so its 11" all around. The back has 2.5" wide shoes and the front are 2.75". the service manual indicates that 11" are heavy duty and front are supposed to be 3" and rear to be 2.5". The 2.75's go all the way to the edge of the drum. 3" may go past the edge. not sure.

I see on rock auto that there are 2.75" and 3" drums. I guess someone replaced with 2.75. Either I have these re-turned and resued. Or I get new ones and go with 3". If I do that is there anything else I should think about or should know. Can I swap out and go about my business? or is there any other stuff to do. If its replace and move on then i'll swap to 3". But if its more then that i'll just stick with 2.75. Any recommendations?

Finally should I replace the studs on the left. You gotta turn right to get them off. or just leave them and remember the left side is backwards.

Thx everyone. Tom

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Those shoes appear to be a proper fit for the drums you have. At least from looking at the photo, those look like a 3" shoe. In any case to change from a 2.75" to 3" shoe you would need to change the backing plates as they have a different offset. The 3" shoes were common on police, taxi, Chrysler 300 and 440 equipped cars. Mopar products were known for a lot of production variances, so it would come as no big surprise if the size of the shoes installed were 2.75' as opposed to 3". It does not look like the cylinder is leaking from the photo, but if the car sat for several years, it would still be a good idea to change out the hoses and cylinders. Do not try to reuse fluid soaked shoes.

Dave
 
more detective work. i took the brakes apart. the shoes are 2.75 with a tape measure. i am still not sure on the front drums. if I place the shoes in the drums and slid to the back, there does appear to be a 1/4 or more left until the edge. i can slide it front to back a little. so the drum has 1/4 or more space. i'm thinking a 3" but not 100% sure. The 11" are listed as 3" for police and heavy duty. i'll try get the rear buttoned up. hopefully learn a bit. Then got to the front and finalize the 2.75" vs. 3". Appreciate the replies.

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To addd to your "spec" knowledge, head over to www.hamtramck-historical.com and search the Liberary for the "AMA Data Book" for your car, or one similar to it. There is a section on Brakes, plus other vehicular systems. Quite informatio0nal as to what got what.

Rock Auto is a really good resource of what's available, BUT I've observed some gaps. In looking at the OEM-level brake lining suppliers, it seems there are some "between the lines" situations there, too, from what I've seen. So using THEM as the "holy grail" of information might not be completely good to do.

As for stopping power, I don't suspect you've ever locked=up ALL FOUR wheels on a C-body Chrysler before. Back when stopping power was much more about the frictional interface between the tires and the road surface. Any "anti-lock" was "analog" with your braking foot doing the modulation rather than a computer. When "skill" was important.

So, for what they were, the OEM production brakes on the '65-'68 C-body cars were pretty good, especiall for that "first stop", from my experiences. But, of course, our cars had power brakes rather than manual brakes. IT took a "trained foot" to not lay rubber stopping AND they didn't loose braking power at the sight of a mud puddle like many GM cars did, either.

In general, there were THREE sizes of C-body front drum brakes. 2.5, 2.75, and3.0" wide. There were a few less wide drum brakes for the rear, 2.0", but also went up to 3.0" wide on HD/police vehicles. Per the AMA book, 60% of braking was on the front wheels, with 40% being on the rear wheels. Not uncommon for the rear wheels to lock-up first, either.

Check some of the old road tests and I believe you'll discover that even with the older, narrower-tread tires of yester-year, stopping distances from 60mph (the standard back then) were pretty decent. For fade resistance, it was metallic brake linings, as many of the police cars had back then. BUT using those shoes for staging at a drag strip was pretty difficult as they took HEAT to work their best.

Factory disc brakes happened for better fade resistance without having to go to metallic linings, back then. In more modern times, they are also a bit lighter, I suspect. In other words, in a world where 4-wheel power disc brakes are "the norm", seeing something less than that is perceived to be "sub-standared", but as even THEM have been downsized with more agressive pads to make up the difference, brake jobs have become less durable and more costly, from my own experiences.

With either drum or disc brakes, the key is having either system in the very good condition they need to be in, considering they are a "safety-related" system. Then, finding their respectrive capabilities and driving accordingly.

DO continue on your journey to rebuild the brakes on your Plymouth. It'll be worth it when you're done. Just don't resume that some aftermarket system is going to be a "magic bullet" to make something better, as a magazine article might claim. As some have discovered, they spent a lot of money and things didn't work as well as they did before with the OEM stock items. On the other hand, adding an OEM-spec factory power brake booster and matching master cylinder to replace your non-power system, was an upgrade, even back when the car was new (almost all OEMs had such "accessory kits" for that, back then).

ALSO pay attention to how your car is designed and constructed. That is one aspect of Chrysler Products that is exceptional, when compared to similar GM products, by observation. Each OEM has their own quirks and idiosyncracies, though. Just that those are more well-known about Fords and GMs, though. The Chrysler-specific items are more well-known in groups such as this, by observation. In other words, some who seek to "fix" a Chrysler product as they might a similar Ford or GM product usually discover it doesn't always work well, that way. Especially on the newer stuff.

So, keep on with your project. Enjoy "the ride" and live to tell about it.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
the shoes don't go completely to the outside edge of the drum. everything looks ok to me. clean the drums and get new shoes (whatever is on there will leach out with heat no matter what you try to clean it with.)
 
ok. if the shoes are not supposed to go to the outside of the edge, and i think the 3" would, then i'll stick with 2.75's and just make it so. I'll start scrunging for the parts. Thx again everyone!
 
I am looking at inlinetube, classic tube, and the right stuff for the lines and i'll upgrade to stainless braided hoses. just need to figure out the parts. My plan is to order the parts, assemble them, double check I have everything, and then work on this during labor day time and maybe take a day or so prior to give me time. I am slow and prone to missing a part. that can slow me up every now and then.
 
I am looking at inlinetube, classic tube, and the right stuff for the lines and i'll upgrade to stainless braided hoses. just need to figure out the parts. My plan is to order the parts, assemble them, double check I have everything, and then work on this during labor day time and maybe take a day or so prior to give me time. I am slow and prone to missing a part. that can slow me up every now and then.

The stainless braided hoses are one of those upgrades better not done. Stay with a quality rubber hose, they are less troublesome and last longer.

Dave
 
Fury dude,
You have had three different people tell you to call
Me....
All three of them are intelligent --- and you can be intelligent also... My phone number is 516 - 485 - 1935
And it is Always best to simply call me....
Too much to type out and go over --- just simply call for best and fastest results...
If you want your car to stop easily and beautifully,
STAY AWAY from the internet and garbage parts.....
Did I say that loud enough???? Did you hear the four of us say it loud enough ????!
Yours, Craig.....
 
haha. I am not very intelligent for sure. Smart maybe. Depends on who you ask in the family. Appreciate the number. I am trying to learn and doing research along the way. I'll catch up for sure when ready. Thx again. Tom
 
haha. I am not very intelligent for sure. Smart maybe. Depends on who you ask in the family. Appreciate the number. I am trying to learn and doing research along the way. I'll catch up for sure when ready. Thx again. Tom

Hey Tom! If you can find the build sheet for your car, it should tell you what kind of brake system you have. Look between the springs of the rear seat-back. You may get lucky and find the sheet stuffed in there.
 
There IS NO such thing as 11 " x 2 1/2 " Front in the Mopar World ---
It would be / I S 11 " x 2 3 / 4" Fronts and 11" x 2 " Rears --- and several years later ---
I have *** N.O.S. *** U.S.A. made *** Front & Rear Brake Drums --- and ---
*** N.O.S. *** Asbestos *** Front & Rear Brake Shoes --- and ---
a whooooooole lot more.....,.
Craig....
 
PLEASE do not use asbestos linings, they crack under duress as depicted in an earlier post and fade.......... There is modern lining material that does not cost a lot of money that will stop a drum brake car very nicely and will NOT wear out the drums. The know it all's that keep pushing asbestos linings should stop pushing old very outdated technology and do some research [reading and comprehension] and perhaps CALL a brake relining company and see what they recommend.

If the OP wants a good relining company PM me as it's pointless to put them on here based on the the constant brake threads that push crappy linings over and over again ignoring technology and real results. It would just take one person on here to do what's recommended...then again maybe not
 
PLEASE do not use asbestos linings, they crack under duress as depicted in an earlier post and fade.......... There is modern lining material that does not cost a lot of money that will stop a drum brake car very nicely and will NOT wear out the drums. The know it all's that keep pushing asbestos linings should stop pushing old very outdated technology and do some research [reading and comprehension] and perhaps CALL a brake relining company and see what they recommend.

If the OP wants a good relining company PM me as it's pointless to put them on here based on the the constant brake threads that push crappy linings over and over again ignoring technology and real results. It would just take one person on here to do what's recommended...then again maybe not
This place? Clutch Brake Friction Specialists - Rochester Clutch & Brake - Rochester Clutch + Brake Co

I ran metallic brake shoes on a drag car back in the 70's and they were fantastic. We ran a couple "outlaw" tracks at night with really short shutdowns. One track was famous for the number of cars that went off the end. Three cars went off into the weeds one night! I would pass someone in the traps and they would pass me in the shutdown as I was slowing.

Had I known that I could get some shoes relined with semi-metallics, I would have done the drum brakes on my Barracuda with them instead of the NOS that I bought on eBay. Especially when the place is just up the Thruway from me. Of course, the car stops just fine, much better than the offshore Centric junk, so I'm not looking to swap.

I am curious about cost though.

There's nothing wrong with giving another opinion and option. IMHO, the OEM asbestos works much better than the offshore sourced brakes, but there is still room for improvement. If people disagree, they disagree... Hell, I don't always agree with some of the things I see here... Don't let it stop you from giving another option that some of us might look into.
 
I tend to concur that asbestos, by itself, is not always the best lining material. Nor are all asbestos linings all "the best", even back in the 1960s or so, as there were some brands better than others, by observation. But that material was pretty much all we had back then, so the braking systems were designed around it. They would stop well when "cold", but to varying lesser degrees as they got "hot" from mountain use, for example. And, pretty much everybody knew that when the brakes didn't work well, to SLOW DOWN and get them fixed.

Back in the earlier 1960s, "Hot Rod" magazine (?) did a brake test using a 1960 Ford Galaxie 2-dr hardtop as their test vehicle. It had 11x3 brakes on it. Of the twenty or so commonly-available linings available back then, some of the lower-end brands did have cracking of the linings under repeated hard stops from 60mph. The more premium brand linings did not do this.

In their testing, each brand of lining was "bedded-in" by a prescribed method. After that cycle, then the stopping test cycle began. Each one testing stopping distance, pedal pressure, fade, and wheel lock-up behavior (in a time well before anti-lock computer brakes happened, much less computer controls!). Any anti-lock was purely "analog".

Back then, metallic linings were only used in certain situations, with the semi-metallic linings just beginning to appear. There was ONE lining (which I had not heard of at that time) came through with "flying colors", with several on its heels. A big deal, locally, was "Brake with Brass" for better heat tolerance, from a local auto service chain. Obviously, that lining material was available in other places of the vehicular spectrum at that time.

The OEM power brakes on our then-new '66 Newport would lock all four wheels at about 30mph, in a panic stop. Leaving the frictional interface between the OEM Goodyear Super Power Cushion tires and the road surface to stop the car. After use, less sensitivity . . . until the drums were dusted with compressed air to blow out all of the accumulated "dust" from them. Then things felt "like new" again. Yes, you could taste and see the asbestos dust in the air. Full metallic brake linings were known to need to get hot in order to work well, so they were NOT normal consumer items, by a long shot. In 1961, a "Sport Model" came out with metallic brakes from the factory, but drag racers soon discovered they could not stage the car with them, at the drag strip, after waiting in the staging lanes (as the brakes cooled). So those "high performance" metallic linings came off and normal linings went on. BTAIM

We all know that it's "that one stop" that matters. Everybody make their OWN best decision.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
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but drag racers soon discovered they could not stage the car with them, at the drag strip, after waiting in the staging lanes (as the brakes cooled). So those "high performance" metallic linings came off and normal linings went on.
I think that's one of those old drag racer wives tales. I never had an issue with the metallics. On/off the trailer, around the pits etc., it was fine.

Possibly the earlier versions might have had an issue though, I don't know.
 
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