Need Big block advice!

[moper]

For what you have I would suggest replacing the pistons with KB hypereutectics, stick some good rod bolts in the rods, have the rest of the rotating assembly checked out and internally balanced, and the block bored, plate honed, and then square decked to get a "0" deck (piston flush with the deck). The pistons are less than $300. I'd think if you got a quote for $550 for what you listed you could have the rest for another $1000 or so assuming the shop can square deck and torque plate hone. IMO you will get much more usable performance with a solid, well machined lower end than a set of performance heads. You don't need high flowing heads especially given the weight and typical gearing/convertor/power brakes that a C body has. Factory heads with a modern, high quality valve job and a nice cam in the 220-225° @ .050 range and you'll have a nice pump gas engine that will move that Fury.

 

[polo62]

You could use the early 915 or 516cast mopar heads

 

[tallhair]

Check out the last post date polo.

This was from March and the last time Maximus was here was 21 Mar

Join Date 02-24-2014
Last Activity 03-21-2014

Hey may pop back in though if he's getting emails

 

[Aussie_70_Sport_Fury]

Those ebay heads are most likely 440 Source Stealth heads which were cloned from a set of Edelbrock heads. 101% Chinese and about a 25% defective rate. Roll the dice.
Clean up the stock heads and used domed pistons. They'll give you 10:1

Whooa!! 25% defect rate??....any proof of that today? a looong time ago they had quality issues with core shift, but that was a looong time ago. I have 2 x 440's running CnC'd 440 Source Stealth heads, one a 522 stroker makes 610Hp ( I have dyno sheets from the builders dyno) and one is a 440 running 10:1 to be used with a Paxton side mount supercharger, WITHOUT the Paxton fitted and a very dull solid roller blower cam designed by Comp Cams it made over 580Hp! on the same builders dyno...they were a dedicated Edelbrock head user and now use 440Source as they made more HP they had thought possible running Eddy heads.

 

[commando1]

You're not running the 440S heads out of the box. Most people buy them and bolt them right on. They buy 440S heads in the first place because they are cheap. I can buy a turd and then throw a ton of money at it and make it into Porterhouse steak. I'll buy real steak in the first place and skip the turd transformation.
You also mention you used a builder for your engines...
Posted via Topify on Android

 

[moper]

If you bought CNC'd heads - they had the correcting already done as the finish steps of the CNC process. No heads, including Edelbrocks, are in my opinion OK to install out of the box. As far as the numbers go - dynos don't mean crap. Especially dynos that belong to the same guys that built the engine. What sort of MPH does that 610hp stroker run in the 1/4? Get the weight, do the math, and see if you can swallow a does of reality. A non-blown 580hp with a "blower" cam? That dyno's VERY happy...lol.

 

[bajajoaquin]

You're not running the 440S heads out of the box. Most people buy them and bolt them right on. They buy 440S heads in the first place because they are cheap. I can buy a turd and then throw a ton of money at it and make it into Porterhouse steak. I'll buy real steak in the first place and skip the turd transformation.
You also mention you used a builder for your engines...
Posted via Topify on Android

And you're changing your argument.

He said that the early heads had problems with core shift, which I believe is correct. CNC wouldn't fix that. You don't like them. I get that. But when you slam them with out-of-date criticisms and get corrected, don't just shift your argument like what you said didn't get corrected.

So what if he uses an engine builder? That still gives him more experience running the heads than you have.

Back up the 25% defect rate claim with something within the last three years. After the initial problems with his production, I haven't read anything that could be described as a universal problem coming from anyone with any actual experience with them. Just people who don't like them spouting what they read years ago.

 

[has2bmopar]

I have 2 x 440's running CnC'd 440 Source Stealth heads,

one a 522 stroker makes 610Hp

one is a 440 running 10:1 and a very dull solid roller blower cam designed by Comp Cams it made over 580Hp! on the same builders dyno....

they were a dedicated Edelbrock head user and now use 440Source as they made more HP they had thought possible running Eddy heads.

Your 440 with 82 or 76 (@ .030" over) cubes less with a relatively low comp ratio @ 10:1 for aluminum heads, mild blower cam etc... and it only missed the peak HP of a 522 stroker by 30 HP.... My BS meter is starting to beep.

They were a dedicated Eddy user and now use 440Source because of what now??? My BS meter caught fire... :laughing7:

The Stealth 440Source heads are copied after the Edelbrock, and very likely run the same CNC program options between the two. Check the chamber and port volume between the two and tell me again how different they are.

I bought 2 sets of the 440Source heads, but also bought Edelbrock, Mopar and Indy heads (SRs and Hemi-RA Legend)

The 440Source heads needed to be machined for pushrod clearance, they have decent valves, but the springs are borderline and the retainers and locks are junk. Also note that all the other heads that I bought came helicoiled on the exhaust and rocker stands. So by the time you clearance pushrods, replace the springs, locks and retainers, you have spent more than an Edelbrock or Mopar head and add the Helicoils you might as well go for a set of Indy heads with much larger port volumes, larger valves and a better combustion chamber design.

Anything good that people claim about their Stealth 440Source is because they already made the choice of going on the cheap and have not previously owned a set of another manufacturer's heads. If you like your 440Source heads; thank Edelbrock, for it was their research, development and expense that designed them, and quit FN praising the FN Chinese thieves that simply copied them.

Here's one set of my Stealth heads that I sold and used on a 440 that I built for a friend...

 

[bajajoaquin]

Isn't that the World Products head that's the copy? I thought 440 Source built their own. They're made in China, to be sure, but I think the copies are a different company.

 

[has2bmopar]

Isn't that the World Products head that's the copy? I thought 440 Source built their own. They're made in China, to be sure, but I think the copies are a different company.

Nope, they are an Edelbrock copy, as are the Mopar heads, except Mopar went through the process properly (not like an *** Bandit) and they do their own casting (Mopar cast in "M") with what I have found personally with the LA heads to have better quality control.

Here's a Mopar LA head showing how I opened up the chambers, unshrouding the valves and spark plugs, and also to drop my compression to 10.4:1 with Wiesco flat top pistons.



This also brings up a point in reference to the original thread; please settle on what head you are going to use for your build, then check your chamber volume... Then DO the math and make your compression compatible with your PISTONS.

Check your compression height, rod length 6.768", stroke 3.75", deck height 10.72, bore, valve reliefs, gasket thickness, etc. and choose a piston to fit your compression needs. Personally I like about 9.5 with iron heads and 10.5 with aluminum for running pump gas. The piston is your expendable variable, not your block, and not planing the heads to hell and gone. Decking blocks and cutting heads excessively Fs up your pushrod length, intake mating surfaces etc...

Please do NOT zero deck your block unless open chamber heads are your choice.... With forged pistons, esp. 2618 vs 4032 aluminum you could be hitting your heads with your piston with only .039" of gasket for clearance. Do your math and figure each part... Do not take something you read somewhere "This part with this part will give you this compression ratio"... BS

 

[commando1]

I was going to shut up about the 440S issue but now I can't. Here's the basics:
(Oversimplified of course which makes it an easy target for the Fanbois but here it is regardless)

440S took an Eddy head and sent it to China, via brokers, and said make these.
Chinese factory makes heads, boxes them, packs container, sends to USA.
Container arrives, unloaded, and sealed boxes go onto shelf.
Customer buys heads, gets heads exactly as they were packed into the box still hot.
No documented QC/QA anywhere. Untouched, unseen, from when it came out of of machining to Joe Blow in Peoria who opens box and sets them as is onto the block......

Posted via Topify on Android

 

[moper]

Don;t leave out the Victors. They became the Super Stealths...
I'm not sure which is worse.. the fact that Edelbrock did all the R&D, and deliver some poor quality control in out-of-the-box form... Or the fact that 440Source illegally copied them including the poor out-of-the-box performance...lol. Of course - the Indys I've used suffer from the EXACT SAME THING. So don;t think that because you spend more, you get better. The labor still sucks on all of them.

 

[LocuMob]

Don;t leave out the Victors. They became the Super Stealths...
I'm not sure which is worse.. the fact that Edelbrock did all the R&D, and deliver some poor quality control in out-of-the-box form... Or the fact that 440Source illegally copied them including the poor out-of-the-box performance...lol. Of course - the Indys I've used suffer from the EXACT SAME THING. So don;t think that because you spend more, you get better. The labor still sucks on all of them.

So when I buy the Indy 440-EZ heads, I should march right down to the local machine shop and spend $XXX on correcting all that's supposed to be done? At least I can be comforted by knowing that every head I buy needs the same things done to them. BTW, I have a set of 440Source heads that worked just fine on my stock 75 440. No I wasn't going for big power, just slapped them on and drove. Worked fine til a conn rod broke and slammed a piston into the valves. (The engine had problems waiting to rear their heads due to improper break in, way before I ever got it) I agree the retainers and locks are cheap, but I got some from comp cams for a bigger cam I plan on installing. I didn't see any interference with the push rods, and I thought the exhaust and rocker bolt holes were already helicoiled, but I'd have to look to confirm.

 

[heyoldguy]

Don;t leave out the Victors. They became the Super Stealths...
I'm not sure which is worse.. the fact that Edelbrock did all the R&D, and deliver some poor quality control in out-of-the-box form... Or the fact that 440Source illegally copied them including the poor out-of-the-box performance...lol. Of course - the Indys I've used suffer from the EXACT SAME THING. So don;t think that because you spend more, you get better. The labor still sucks on all of them.

So moper, we generally see eye-to-eye but we diverge here. Are you sure the Victors became the Super Stealths? I have them side-by-side on the shelf and they are nothing alike. Maybe you were thinking of the ProComp big block MOPAR head which appears to be a Victor copy.

 

[70NPORT]

..........

 

[bulldogchesty]

Did I miss something?

 

[heyoldguy]

Somebody had a rough day. Let's just let it pass. I've had my tirades also.

 

[68plymouth383]

I think this guy needs to go back to moparts........

 

[67Monaco]

Did I miss something?

Not yet, but it's coming.

 

[barnfind]

:buttkick: