Scenicruisin'..?

[amazinblue82]

This is NOT my bus, but this view from upper deck looking forward is what I wanna try to preserve. I wanna see OUT the iconic panoramic upper deck windows with as little obstruction as possible.

Also, these pictures show a BIG decision I need to make. More on that in a second...

Same view in original configuration

btw, this is how the Red Bull guys dealt with this view .. and how they dealt with my BIG decision.

 

[amazinblue82]

OK .. my BIG decision. Actually no drum roll needed. I am not going to do it ... it has a $25K price tag.

So, the question was whether to lower the floor in upper deck (basically take out the elevated portion where the seats were, and thereby eliminate the center aisle that runs the length of the upper deck.

I am 6' 3" and my head touches the ceiling on the upper deck ..when standing in center aisle. Where the seats were .. well you can follow the math below

problem (paraphrased) description: source Southwest Scenics and Motorcoach > Services

These buses originally had seats set up on "steps" with a center aisle. If you just remove the seats there isn't enough head room to stand up on the steps. It makes floor plans quite limited. You can lower, or flatten the floor on the upper deck but you must NOT comprimise the structure of the bus

Original design has a bus with 45 seats (it really ended up as 43) that were attached to the floor. They were mounted on "steps" 11" higher than the 19" wide aisle that ran the length of the coach. This made perfect sense and provided massive baggage bays down below. The problems begin when you don't want 43 seats and you'd like to build an RV or the like out of it.

Other than the narrow aisle down the middle, there isn't any place a normal sized person can stand up. The solution seems simple, just lower the floor. Well...... nothing with these coaches is as simple as it first seems.

The Scenicruiser was designed with a very unique feature borrowed from the aircraft industry. It doesn't have a frame. It's whats called a Monocoque design. It's strength is derived from the outer skin and internal bulkheads. You can't just go chopping things out without a plan. There have been some Scenic's done like that and generally speaking, they broke in half or drove so poorly they becasme scrap metal. We have a failrly extensive background in building race cars and fabricating structures.

To be sure, it's a major undertaking ... ​

So again this is NOT my bus below but you can see in post #1120, and below in the stripped bus where the major surgery is needed on the luggage comparment buikheads (ya gotta flatten them) to remove the center aisle, and again what the Red Bull guys did to have a flat upper deck they wanted for their party bus

 

[amazinblue82]

Last thought .. and I havent quite solved this yet ... but thats 2020's problem.

THere were seats and a padded section (safety mainly so you didnt smash your face on the bulkhead betweeen upper and lower deck). As kids, we made our Dad get in line early so we could be first on the bus to get those seats.

If you lower the floor, you have have a really tall seat to look out the front/sides. I want seats there in my upper deck design, and again I dont wanna flatten the floor/eliminate the center aisle.

Red Bull left the design style of a separation bulkhead between the upper and lower decks, but they flattened the floor and there are no seats to accomodate viewing through the panoramic window.

 

[rags]

could do flat sections between the bulkheads.

 

[polara71]

Ray, I dont have all the technical know how as these other guys or the verbiage to express my thoughts clearly on this subject. So, please keep that in mind as I just keep punching in likes as I follow along and you teach me a thing or two about these beautiful works of art ...

 

[amazinblue82]

Ray, I dont have all the technical know how as these other guys or the verbiage to express my thoughts clearly on this subject. So, please keep that in mind as I just keep punching in likes as I follow along and you teach me a thing or two about these beautiful works of art ...

hey Dave, I just appreciate you, and others there from the very beginning, for taking the journey in a way with me. It continues to be me who owes thanks to you all for your contributions to this thread.

 

[commando1]

hey Dave, I just appreciate you, and others there from the very beginning, for taking the journey in a way with me. It continues to be me who owes thanks to you all for your contributions to this thread.

Nah. We were just simply thrilled to blow a ton of money that wasn't ours on a completely cool project.
We're voyeurs...

 

[amazinblue82]

Nah. We were just simply thrilled to blow a ton of money that wasn't ours on a completely cool project.
We're voyeurs...

Kinda like watchin' one of these ... from a safe distance?

 

[amazinblue82]

Just found out where one of the 1,001 PD-4501's wound up. Bobby Hotel in Nashville.

Source: Greyhound bus placed on top of downtown Nashville hotel roof

 

[polara71]

I wish they hadn't done that .

 

[cantflip]

could do flat sections between the bulkheads.

FWIW, even the plywood flooring is structural to these buses. I like your thought though, it'd just require a little more effort to maintain the integrity of each "box".

Just found out where one of the 1,001 PD-4501's wound up. Bobby Hotel in Nashville.

Source: Greyhound bus placed on top of downtown Nashville hotel roof

View attachment 285480 View attachment 285478 View attachment 285479

I'm not a fan of the Red Bull build, and I absolutely hate the hotel bus. I hope they both started with something pre-destroyed, but I suspect they both searched for the best starting point they could find.

I am liking this clear view through the front of the bus...

I even like it better than the original... I wonder what would need to be done to extend the higher floor forward and keep some of that feel. Are the bulk heads in front of the seats structural?

 

[amazinblue82]

I even like it better than the original... I wonder what would need to be done to extend the higher floor forward and keep some of that feel. Are the bulk heads in front of the seats structural?

Whisperer says 'Yes" they are but principally to support O/H luggage racks on lower deck

BUT where these coaches split in half/crack a LOT is between the orange lines, and are weakest between upper/lower decks. so something is going on there for sure.

There's definitely "structure" going on ... its thick steel. gotta investigate more. with unlimited money at their disposal, Red Bull left them in but flattened the floor. i will ask folks on the bus forum.

 

[MrMoparCHP]

I rode on one of these about 1979 and at that time thought how cool it would be to convert one to a motor home. I wanted to keep the exterior original including the windows. The forward compartment as original as possible but replacing the passenger seats with captain chairs, 3, 4 whatever fits.

I think the forward bulkhead should stay, modify as needed to accommodate the lowered floor if that is done.


Alan

 

[commando1]

My brain has been working overtime on having enough head room.
I Googled a lot about lowering the floor.
I Googled (what little I could find) about the body & frame.
.
.
.
.
.
Raise the roof.

 

[GJS]

OK .. my BIG decision. Actually no drum roll needed. I am not going to do it ... it has a $25K price tag.

So, the question was whether to lower the floor in upper deck (basically take out the elevated portion where the seats were, and thereby eliminate the center aisle that runs the length of the upper deck.

I am 6' 3" and my head touches the ceiling on the upper deck ..when standing in center aisle. Where the seats were .. well you can follow the math below

problem (paraphrased) description: source Southwest Scenics and Motorcoach > Services

These buses originally had seats set up on "steps" with a center aisle. If you just remove the seats there isn't enough head room to stand up on the steps. It makes floor plans quite limited. You can lower, or flatten the floor on the upper deck but you must NOT comprimise the structure of the bus

Original design has a bus with 45 seats (it really ended up as 43) that were attached to the floor. They were mounted on "steps" 11" higher than the 19" wide aisle that ran the length of the coach. This made perfect sense and provided massive baggage bays down below. The problems begin when you don't want 43 seats and you'd like to build an RV or the like out of it.

Other than the narrow aisle down the middle, there isn't any place a normal sized person can stand up. The solution seems simple, just lower the floor. Well...... nothing with these coaches is as simple as it first seems.

The Scenicruiser was designed with a very unique feature borrowed from the aircraft industry. It doesn't have a frame. It's whats called a Monocoque design. It's strength is derived from the outer skin and internal bulkheads. You can't just go chopping things out without a plan. There have been some Scenic's done like that and generally speaking, they broke in half or drove so poorly they becasme scrap metal. We have a failrly extensive background in building race cars and fabricating structures.

To be sure, it's a major undertaking ... ​

So again this is NOT my bus below but you can see in post #1120, and below in the stripped bus where the major surgery is needed on the luggage comparment buikheads (ya gotta flatten them) to remove the center aisle, and again what the Red Bull guys did to have a flat upper deck they wanted for their party bus

View attachment 285298 View attachment 285301

Reminds me of my yacht buildin' days..

 

[amazinblue82]

My brain has been working overtime on having enough head room.
I Googled a lot about lowering the floor.
I Googled (what little I could find) about the body & frame.
.
.
.
.
.
Raise the roof.

This one is here early on. Its raised roof AND lengthened (lower deck section).

Builder had BOTH the skills (he didnt pay retail) and the "cabbage. End product came out great from appearance sake.

Raising the roof is arguably requiring primo "monocoque" construction skills. others argue that floor flattening is harder.

Whisperer is dead set against raising the roof .. maybe he's just "old school" but he's taken on 100's of custom jobs when he had his shop.

what roof raising (forget lengthening challenges for a second) and floor flattening BOTH have in common?

 

[commando1]

That is the most beautiful bus I have ever seen.

 

[amazinblue82]

this one .. way back in post #527 .. was another raised roof job.

Used RVs Scenicruiser Conversion Project For Sale by Owner

 

[amazinblue82]

Then we had this one .. back in #551. Lowered floor, removed upper/lower deck bulkhead. I bid on it back then.

Since I have "recanted" and wanted a more original coach to start with. Whisperer also liked the equiipment choices .. except the propane tanks next to the engine of course. Too much retrofitting as well, and NO idea on whether the floor job was done "right".

1956 Greyhound Scenicruiser | eBay

SELLER DESCRIPTION (abbreviated)

Up for bids is my 1956 Greyhound Scencruiser. This bus was converted by my father who also built the three Echidna sports cars in the 50's. Google it to get an idea of his abilities.

He purchased the bus from Dickenson Lines Inc, Anoka Minnesota in 1977. He spent the next two years converting it. He elected to drop the upper floor to the depth of the center aisle instead of lifting the entire upper roof like some have done. He had looked at some done this way and did not like the overall look of the raised roof. This was at 80,068 miles after the conversion was completed.

The bus now has just over 97,000 miles on it. I purchased it from him in 1999 and full-timed with it until 2005. It has been parked since in Globe AZ and used for storage. This week I cleaned it out, checked fluid levels, fired it up, had six tires put on and took a 20 mile test drive. It runs and drives like the day I parked it.

Please understand that after sitting for 12 years anything could and might go wrong with it. It is being sold “As Is” for obvious reasons. I am not going to guarantee roadworthiness and I am not going to test everything in the bus before selling. Please do not ask me if I think it would make a 1000 mile trip.

I would recommend hauling it on a lowboy, but that choice is up to the purchaser. an it does in person. Included are parts and service manuals for the bus and engine and manuals for all equipment along with all research paperwork that my father had accumulated. Also included are some extra parts that he gave me when I bought the bus. Extra airbags for the suspension, various relays and other parts.

1956 4501 GMC Senicruiser Greyhound

• Engine: V-8 GMC 8V-71 diesel.
• Transmission: Manual shift 4 speed.
• Electrical: 12 volt system with negative ground.
• Fuel tank: 185 gallons.
• MPG 6-8.
• Air brakes and air suspension.
• Tires: 11.0 X 22.5 radial.
• Two under-floor compartments totaling 200 cubic feet. 50” long. 90” wide. 38” high. Two smaller compartments totaling 4 cubic feet each.
• Water: Fresh 200 gallon stainless steel tank with demand pump and two stage filtering.
• Holding tanks: 200 gallon black water in back compartment and a 50 gallon gray water for kitchen sink.
• Paloma instant water heater.
• Rack for two 40 lbs propane tanks in engine compartment. One tank missing.
• 6.0 KW Onan diesel generator.
• 30 amp power converter charger.
• 30,000 BTU Suburban furnace.
• 6 cubic foot Dometic refrigerator. AC, Propane, 12volt.
• Two burner cooktop.
• Microwave/convection oven.
• Standard size double stainless sink.
• Electric dumbwaiter behind sink.
• Monitoring system for water levels and battery condition.
• Dinette seats 4 and converts into bed. Storage under all seats.
• Forward facing seat for two.
• Central vacuum.
• Queen bed.
• Three roof AC units with 5,400 BTU electric strips in each.

 

[commando1]

Jeezes... How hard can it be?