Fuselage Fury HP engines

The Goose said:
[unlicensed air cleaner.

View attachment 303175
Click to expand...
Wouldn’t that look like a sombrero???

Don’t forget e bodies get twisted up with the 330 vs 335 horse motor too. I had a ‘70 grand coupe w a 330 horse 383 4 barrel. It ran pretty hard. I just chalk it up to marketing...[/QUOTE]
You are 100% right on this. My Challenger is a non R/T. It has everything a 383 magnum would have, taller pistons, good valve springs, dual snorkel, same AVS, N code in VIN, E63 on tag but no HP on the block, and no Magnum on the pie tin.
They were pretty particular about keeping that 335 horse number attached to certain cars.
Let's face it, their horsepower numbers are essentially made up, and a timing change can net you the 5 horsepower between the two engines.
 
70bigblockdodge said:
Wouldn’t that look like a sombrero???

Don’t forget e bodies get twisted up with the 330 vs 335 horse motor too. I had a ‘70 grand coupe w a 330 horse 383 4 barrel. It ran pretty hard. I just chalk it up to marketing...
Click to expand...
You are 100% right on this. My Challenger is a non R/T. It has everything a 383 magnum would have, taller pistons, good valve springs, dual snorkel, same AVS, N code in VIN, E63 on tag but no HP on the block, and no Magnum on the pie tin.
They were pretty particular about keeping that 335 horse number attached to certain cars.
Let's face it, their horsepower numbers are essentially made up, and a timing change can net you the 5 horsepower between the two engines.[/QUOTE]
Who’s Alberta Einstein?:poke:
 
DSC04790.JPG
70bigblockdodge said:
Well I was going to fix it, but now that it is becoming a thing it can stay.
Thanks Mario!
Click to expand...


Is my car HP then?
 
cbarge said:
YES!
Click to expand...
70bigblockdodge said:
Wouldn’t that look like a sombrero???

Don’t forget e bodies get twisted up with the 330 vs 335 horse motor too. I had a ‘70 grand coupe w a 330 horse 383 4 barrel. It ran pretty hard. I just chalk it up to marketing...
Click to expand...
You are 100% right on this. My Challenger is a non R/T. It has everything a 383 magnum would have, taller pistons, good valve springs, dual snorkel, same AVS, N code in VIN, E63 on tag but no HP on the block, and no Magnum on the pie tin.
They were pretty particular about keeping that 335 horse number attached to certain cars.
Let's face it, their horsepower numbers are essentially made up, and a timing change can net you the 5 horsepower between the two engines.[/QUOTE]


You are correct. The actual assembly that went into a vehicle was based on several things. There is no B body 383- 335 horse A/C assembly in 68 and 69 but there is in 70.

The 70 E body applications are convoluted because you factor in 'Cuda/RT or not, A/C or not, manual or automatic transmission and, IIRC, N95 emissions and N96 shaker hood come into play. I've seen a grid for the 70 E body applications and it is extensive.
 
polara71 said:
If the Block doesn't say HP then it's not HP.
Click to expand...

The 68-70 B and E body 335 horse assemblies have the higher lift cam and are designated the HP variant for those years.
There is no 68-70 C body 383-4bbl assembly with the higher lift cam.

All 68-70 H code 62/63 assemblies are 383-4 bbls. They can be rated at different horsepower ratings based on the application, such as body, transmission and A/C. The applications change year to year. 68-69 Chargers with automatic transmissions are not HP. 69 Chargers with four speed and no A/C got the 335 horse assembly. 70 Chargers with a four speed and A/C got the HP assembly.

All 68-70 383-4 with higher lift cam are H codes; not all H codes have the higher lift cam therefore not HP. The nuances are varied making it impossible for the factory to cover all the bases when it comes to actual assembly use.

If it makes people feel better to argue that all 68-70 383-4s are HP...I don't care. The facts just don't back up the thinking.
 
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GOLDMYN said:
View attachment 303215


Is my car HP then?
Click to expand...
Yes
69CoronetRT said:
Manifold applications are based on 2 and 4bbl carburation. They are unrelated to cam.

The CAM is the determining factor in the 68-70 HP application.
Click to expand...
I will not argue that the cam numbers are different, they are.
The changes they made amount to zip, but it does allow them to claim one is different to another. If anyone can feel a 5 hp difference in the seat of their pants thats impressive.
They are very much the same. Number wise very different.
 
Folks...it's pretty simple.

Let's get it correct.
Do what others have done for B and E bodies.

Disregard the whole H/N code 62/63 coding. We've shown that doesn't tell us the rated horsepower or specific application.

Document which engine assemblies came in C bodies based on the assembly number on the broadcast sheet.
Document each year 1968, 1969 and 1970.
Cross reference the assembly to the carb as they are linked. Which assemblies have Carters and which cars have Holleys? The carb application is also on the broadcast sheet. This application changes year to year.
Cross reference the assembly by color (which assemblies are orange? which ones are not?)
Document the HP stamp on the distributor pad indicating the assembly has the higher lift cam.
Document which assemblies have HP associated equipment such as distributors.
Upon disassembly, does the car have a windage tray?
Upon disassembly, which springs are in the head? The higher lift cam has different springs.

If you want help reading broadcast sheets and getting started, let me know.
 
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I would like to consider my 70 N code to be a high performance engine. It is a higher performing variant than the L code I had . Once Doug schooled us a few years on the muddy waters of 383 HP engines it became clear what is and isn't, kinda .
 
69CoronetRT said:
Manifold applications are based on 2 and 4bbl carburation. They are unrelated to cam.

The CAM is the determining factor in the 68-70 HP application.
Click to expand...
If you are comparing the B body 335 horse to the 330 horse C body you are correct.

I broke out my 68 FSM.....
Keep in mind I am focusing on the C bodies which is part of Nick's topic.
The 2bbl 383,4bbl 383HP and lo-po 350 horse 440 ALL USED SAME CAM!
Specs..256 intake,260 exhaust duration. 425 intake lift,435 lift exhaust.
The 383HP and 440HP did share the same set of valve springs,however.
The 2bbl 383 used the same valve springs as the lo-po 440 FYI

As we already know the 906 heads were used across the board on B/RB engines 68-70,and all engines excet the 2bbl were 10 to 1 compression.

The 375 horse 440 had its own cam and THIS particular grind was shared with the 335 horse 383 in B and E bodies.
Specs...268 intake,284 exhaust,450 lift intake,458 lift exhaust.

When comparing the 383HP 4bbl in a C to the 2bbl engine the main difference is the compression,exhaust and exhaust manifolds. Same cam,same heads.
I had never seen a 383 marked as an HP block. The 383 blocks are all the same.
Just when they started stamping the VIN on the blocks,that is the proper way to decipher if it is either a 330,or 335 horse that came out of a Fury,Monaco,Newport or Charger,Road Runner or Challenger.
Mother Mopar may have marked the 440 blocks as HP but may not apply to the 383's.
Cheers
 
69CoronetRT said:
The 68-70 B and E body 335 horse assemblies have the higher lift cam and are designated the HP variant for those years.
There is no 68-70 C body 383-4bbl assembly with the higher lift cam.

All 68-70 H code 62/63 assemblies are 383-4 bbls. They can be rated at different horsepower ratings based on the application, such as body, transmission and A/C. The applications change year to year. 68-69 Chargers with automatic transmissions are not HP. 69 Chargers with four speed and no A/C got the 335 horse assembly. 70 Chargers with a four speed and A/C got the HP assembly.

All 68-70 383-4 with higher lift cam are H codes; not all H codes have the higher lift cam therefore not HP. The nuances are varied making it impossible for the factory to cover all the bases when it comes to actual assembly use.

If it makes people feel better to argue that all 68-70 383-4s are HP...I don't care. The facts just don't back up the thinking.
Click to expand...

You're long on expressing your opinion but you haven't shown any documentation to substantiate your opinion. Show me some Chrysler Corp documentation that states that these are not HP engines. Prove me wrong and I will accept your premise.
 
cbarge said:
If you are comparing the B body 335 horse to the 330 horse C body you are correct.

I broke out my 68 FSM.....
Keep in mind I am focusing on the C bodies which is part of Nick's topic.
The 2bbl 383,4bbl 383HP and lo-po 350 horse 440 ALL USED SAME CAM!
Specs..256 intake,260 exhaust duration. 425 intake lift,435 lift exhaust.
The 383HP and 440HP did share the same set of valve springs,however.
The 2bbl 383 used the same valve springs as the lo-po 440 FYI

As we already know the 906 heads were used across the board on B/RB engines 68-70,and all engines excet the 2bbl were 10 to 1 compression.

The 375 horse 440 had its own cam and THIS particular grind was shared with the 335 horse 383 in B and E bodies.
Specs...268 intake,284 exhaust,450 lift intake,458 lift exhaust.

When comparing the 383HP 4bbl in a C to the 2bbl engine the main difference is the compression,exhaust and exhaust manifolds. Same cam,same heads.
I had never seen a 383 marked as an HP block. The 383 blocks are all the same.
Just when they started stamping the VIN on the blocks,that is the proper way to decipher if it is either a 330,or 335 horse that came out of a Fury,Monaco,Newport or Charger,Road Runner or Challenger.
Mother Mopar may have marked the 440 blocks as HP but may not apply to the 383's.
Cheers
Click to expand...

68 and 69 parts books. The 69 reads easier than the 68.

The 330 horse 383-4, 383-2 and 440-4 350 horse used the same 190 cam.
The 383-4 335 horse and 440-375 horse used the same 564 cam.

IF the C body 383-4 used the high lift cam, then the block will be stamped HP as an external indication to the assembly folks which cam is inside.

69_Camshafts_800.jpg
68_Camshafts_600.jpg
 
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